Is it true, you can trade without indicators and candlesticks?

[HawkTrader]

i struggle to understand how a trader can be profitable without taking into account support\resistance horizontally.

lol.

The only person who has said anything with any real substance and that has actually made sense has been DT.

Hats off to you, sir.

 

[spy74]

lol.

The only person who has said anything with any real substance and that has actually made sense has been DT.

Hats off to you, sir.

After reading that quote from Michael Ellner, I can understand why you might think that....

 

[forker]

lol.

The only person who has said anything with any real substance and that has actually made sense has been DT.

Hats off to you, sir.

and clearly your contributing to the other :clap:

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

I'm starting to feel all warm & fuzzy inside.


- why people would come in and buy again at the support level ? What is their motivation ?
- how support may differ when trading on different horizons - e.g. day trading vs swing trading
- how support may differ in infinite/finite supply markets - e.g. futures vs stocks
- how derivatives would impact support - e.g. an index impacting a futures market or options impacting a stock.

What is even more strange; when you see people charts and they have s/r lines from ages ago that have been broken, but they are supposed to still have some relevance going forward.😕

If you can explain why they are relevant then fine, keep them on, if not, it just clutters up what you should really be looking at.

In fact, if you cant explain why you have on your charts what you do, and why it works, then it should not be on there in the 1st place.

 

[HawkTrader]

After reading that quote from Michael Ellner, I can understand why you might think that....

Hmm, I don't understand why you are being rude. I haven't tried to insult someone, we are supposed to be talking about trading - what are you bloody doing?

All I'm saying is that I feel DT has made the most sense in any thread that I've read in a long time, and a lot of you people are argueing with him and telling him he is wrong. Maybe he is, but why not research it a little first?

 

[spy74]

Hmm, I don't understand why you are being rude. I haven't tried to insult someone, we are supposed to be talking about trading - what are you bloody doing?

All I'm saying is that I feel DT has made the most sense in any thread that I've read in a long time, and a lot of you people are argueing with him and telling him he is wrong. Maybe he is, but why not research it a little first?

I wasn't trying to being deliberately rude - it's just that quote is saying some very strong things which, while having some validity in some cases, is simply not true as a whole. Much like DT's claim that TA categorically does not work.

 

[HawkTrader]

I wasn't actually being rude - just that quote is saying some very strong things which, while may have some validity in some cases, are simply not true as a whole. Much like DT's claim that TA categorically does not work.

Oh I see, in that case please accept my apology.

I should probably say I agree with 99.99% of what DT is trying to get across. 😉

 

[spy74]

Oh I see, in that case please accept my apology.

I should probably say I agree with 99.99% of what DT is trying to get across. 😉

hahah...fair enough 😛

 

[forker]

What is even more strange; when you see people charts and they have s/r lines from ages ago that have been broken, but they are supposed to still have some relevance going forward.😕

If you can explain why they are relevant then fine, keep them on, if not, it just clutters up what you should really be looking at.

In fact, if you cant explain why you have on your charts what you do, and why it works, then it should not be on there in the 1st place.

one image represents support being broken, remove it? if you go by your rules then yes

the other images is moved forward in time, funny how that support line still holds true isnt it!

 

[HawkTrader]

one image represents support being broken, remove it? if you go by your rules then yes

the other images is moved forward in time, funny how that support line still holds true isnt it!

Good point, for a chart trader it's pretty much a must-have. But what about those who trade without charts?

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

one image represents support being broken, remove it? if you go by your rules then yes

the other images is moved forward in time, funny how that support line still holds true isnt it!

Cool, so those 2 lines are relevant going into the next few sessions are they?

Im only bothered about the future, as all traders should be. Lines showing turning points in the past mean nothing.

So from where we are now; what are the important areas going to be? and why?

 

[forker]

S/R to the majority is an opportunity to make a trading decision, because they lack the understanding to base a decision on anything else.

anything else? well how can you take on a trade based on your "anything else" without knowing where price is likely going to run into trouble and turn on you?
support and resistance should is a critical area that should not be overlooked by a trader

 

[redart]

If someone could show years of profitable statements from daytrading using TA, what would that prove out of interest? (if anything)

 

[forker]

Im only bothered about the future, as all traders should be. Lines showing turning points in the past mean nothing.

clearly you missed the point of those images then. you just said you only concerned with the future, well those images show how the past foretold an area in the future

 

[forker]

Good point, for a chart trader it's pretty much a must-have. But what about those who trade without charts?

the only traders that trade without charts have a different profit strategy aka they make from the spread or order flow. but this is an entirely different type of trading to the thread at hand

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

clearly you missed the point of those images then. you just said you only concerned with the future, well those images show how the past foretold an area in the future

But there are lots of points where price moves through without hesitation, why are the S/R not holding in these places.

In not saying you cant make it work using S/R, indeed I just commented on another post that with MM it can work.

But without MM it cant because the is no understanding why it will hold in the 1st place.

(BTW im not talking in terms of certainty, more to do high probability)

 

[Devilicus]

the only traders that trade without charts have a different profit strategy aka they make from the spread or order flow. but this is an entirely different type of trading to the thread at hand

I think that's an important point.
I'd love to know more about it, but there seems to be little info, and I think its only a game the people in the buiness can play.

For example, I dont doubt whotsoever that someone like Arabiannights makes money every single day, but then, I cant imagine that id consider what he does to be 'trading'.

No disrespect to him, but I remember when we were in the old Chatsy room, he opened a spreadbet account for a laugh, and he couldn't get a thing right! He admitted it himself. His posted trades would always move against him.

It must be an entirely different game. How can someone make money everyday trading but not be able to call the direction of an instrument with any sort of success?

Most of us are just small time, retail traders and have limited options as to how to make money.
We can use charts and TA and the DOM etc, or we can study fundamentals and trade long term stuff.

 

[Splitlink]

Hmm, I don't understand why you are being rude. I haven't tried to insult someone, we are supposed to be talking about trading - what are you bloody doing?

All I'm saying is that I feel DT has made the most sense in any thread that I've read in a long time, and a lot of you people are argueing with him and telling him he is wrong. Maybe he is, but why not research it a little first?

No-one is saying that he is wrong. He is telling us that we are wrong to only use TA and not some fundaments. I respect him but am not convinced, totally, that it is worth the effort. To justify his stand, he has to show us how good he is at getting it right by using his methods. If he tries to teach me some complicated things, he will fail because I am willing to admit to being a bit thick. That is, partly, why I use charts but, please, don't tell me that I am that thick that I would be doing this, all these years, if I was losing money.

 

[forker]

But there are lots of points where price moves through without hesitation, why are the S/R not holding in these places.

In not saying you cant make it work using S/R, indeed I just commented on another post that with MM it can work.

But without MM it cant because the is no understanding why it will hold in the 1st place.

(BTW im not talking in terms of certainty, more to do high probability)

it looks to me like your struggling to understand when it will hold and when it will break. the simple answer is just go with the flow and never try step in front of the market.

the question and focus isn't and shouldn't be if it is going to hold or not but what price is telling you at those areas that's important. too many people place market orders lets say for instance on support hoping and wishing it will break just because price has already run some distance. that is like flipping a coin. as long as buyers are around price will continue to move up, test resistance, break resistance, test support and start the cycle again until the buyers lose control. that's why support and resistance is so important. every time price enters support\resistance its like drawing a line in the sand. who is in control? the buyers or the sellers? support and resistance is like the front line of an army...

if price is at support look for signs to buy, if price is at resistance look for signs to sell. but that's just surface analysis. you also need to consider market context amongst other things for each trade too

 

[forker]

I think that's an important point.
I'd love to know more about it, but there seems to be little info, and I think its only a game the people in the buiness can play.

For example, I dont doubt whotsoever that someone like Arabiannights makes money every single day, but then, I cant imagine that id consider what he does to be 'trading'.

No disrespect to him, but I remember when we were in the old Chatsy room, he opened a spreadbet account for a laugh, and he couldn't get a thing right! He admitted it himself. His posted trades would always move against him.

It must be an entirely different game. How can someone make money everyday trading but not be able to call the direction of an instrument with any sort of success?

Most of us are just small time, retail traders and have limited options as to how to make money.
We can use charts and TA and the DOM etc, or we can study fundamentals and trade long term stuff.

good luck in your pursuit, i personally think that type of knowledge is taught from experienced traders and not read in a book. but then again i am just assuming.

it must be a stressful type of trading though since your concentration must bee 100% for long periods of time. I would rather stick to my 5 or so trades a month than waste my life away in front of the screen.