Technically Fundamental
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Well I'd have though profitability is a direct measure of success so unless you still feel trapped by a positive P&L when you're trading proper money as opposed to a few shekels...
Well I'd have though profitability is a direct measure of success so unless you still feel trapped by a positive P&L when you're trading proper money as opposed to a few shekels...
arabianights
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Of course you do. Taking a sensible profit is still sterssful
donaldduke
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Most posters on Trade2win fall under 1 or 2.
Most come into trading thinking its easy but when they realise it requires hard work they quit. Some of them stick around and continue to do it as a hobby/pastime more than anything else. Making money on occasions but on balance they probably are net losers.
cuotes
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It's not about the article, guys. It could be for coffee table style bird's magazines or maybe it is designed to keep psychologists in employment, as you say. Who cares?
It's about the fear of success. And it exists, it's for real, let's be clear.
In many aspects of our life we suffer from fear to success. Even if you are not aware of it. Really do you believe that There may be people around who fear success but they certainly shouldn't be trading or doing anything worthwhile.
Completely wrong!!!!
Trading is very psychological, your attitudes and behaviour in front of the screen is a reflection of your traits. You'll behave as you are.
If you suffer from fear to sucess, you'll live/act/behave/work/flirt/trade with fear to sucess. Even when maybe you didn't know.
It's about the fear of success. And it exists, it's for real, let's be clear.
In many aspects of our life we suffer from fear to success. Even if you are not aware of it. Really do you believe that There may be people around who fear success but they certainly shouldn't be trading or doing anything worthwhile.
Completely wrong!!!!
Trading is very psychological, your attitudes and behaviour in front of the screen is a reflection of your traits. You'll behave as you are.
If you suffer from fear to sucess, you'll live/act/behave/work/flirt/trade with fear to sucess. Even when maybe you didn't know.
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0007
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"Trading is very psychological, your attitudes and behaviour in front of the screen is a reflection of your traits. You'll behave as you are." - Agree with that.
But being a simple soul, I genuinely don't understand "It's about the fear of success. And it exists, it's for real, let's be clear.
In many aspects of our life we suffer from fear to success. Even if you are not aware of it. "
Can you give some examples?
cuotes
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I'll be pleased 
Let's discuss wether this fear is real, and wether it could affect our performance at trading.
I know that many of us suffer fear of success. And I completely believe that most of us don't know it.
The classic example: Approaching women.
Many guys suffer from anxiety when it comes about talking with a pretty girl. Some of them are afraid of 'rejection' but curiosly many of them are affraid of being successful. And they don't even know!!!!
Probably they'll blame other factors. They call themselves 'timid/shy'.
They want to get laid with her, but they are freeze on panic. Stop deceiving yourself, you are afraid of being sucessful.
At trading, it happens the same way. You want money. You yearn for money. You love money. You wish to get more and more money. You are craving for more money in the same way that you were thirst for that girl.
But very deep in your brain, in your soul, you are afraid of the fact of being sucessfull. Wait a sec!
You are afraid of the fact of being sucessfull at making it, or the money itself?????
Different for each person. It depends of what principles were engraved on your brain on your childhood.
Were your parents/environment non-supportive, non-encouraging? Not self-steem?
Then you are afraid of the fact of being sucessfull.
Your environment was middle-class or below? Did your parents repeat again and again "We're poor but honest/respectable" ?
Then you are afraid of the money itself.
Now, you know why it is so difficult for you to ride on your wins.
D'you think that all that is rubbish and nonsense?
Sure?
--------
of course this is not applicable for everybody
Let's discuss wether this fear is real, and wether it could affect our performance at trading.
I know that many of us suffer fear of success. And I completely believe that most of us don't know it.
The classic example: Approaching women.
Many guys suffer from anxiety when it comes about talking with a pretty girl. Some of them are afraid of 'rejection' but curiosly many of them are affraid of being successful. And they don't even know!!!!
Probably they'll blame other factors. They call themselves 'timid/shy'.
They want to get laid with her, but they are freeze on panic. Stop deceiving yourself, you are afraid of being sucessful.
At trading, it happens the same way. You want money. You yearn for money. You love money. You wish to get more and more money. You are craving for more money in the same way that you were thirst for that girl.
But very deep in your brain, in your soul, you are afraid of the fact of being sucessfull. Wait a sec!
You are afraid of the fact of being sucessfull at making it, or the money itself?????
Different for each person. It depends of what principles were engraved on your brain on your childhood.
Were your parents/environment non-supportive, non-encouraging? Not self-steem?
Then you are afraid of the fact of being sucessfull.
Your environment was middle-class or below? Did your parents repeat again and again "We're poor but honest/respectable" ?
Then you are afraid of the money itself.
Now, you know why it is so difficult for you to ride on your wins.
D'you think that all that is rubbish and nonsense?
Sure?
--------
of course this is not applicable for everybody
Vaco
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I'll be pleased
The classic example: Approaching women.
Many guys suffer from anxiety when it comes about talking with a pretty girl. Some of them are afraid of 'rejection' but curiosly many of them are affraid of being successful. And they don't even know!!!!
This can be ellaborated on more, maybe they are afraid of been successful because they fear that they will not live to her expectations in the sack and they will be ridiculled.
good post.
arabianights
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I don't believe the two situations are analagous tbh. Not being good in the sack can possibly lead to ridicule and public humiliation (although, of course, one should be thinking "so?" but let's ignore that for the moment and deal with reality).
There isn't any of that with being a succesful trader. A few people will hate you, but then they'd probably hate you anyway...
There isn't any of that with being a succesful trader. A few people will hate you, but then they'd probably hate you anyway...
Vaco
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ok how about this one..
if you failed your driving test 10 times would you continue to try or would you admit that thes a psychological reason why you can only drive with your instructor sitting next to you,
maybe your afraid of driving alone, and succeding would make that a reality or maybe you should just quit cause your really just not good enough and never will be.
if you failed your driving test 10 times would you continue to try or would you admit that thes a psychological reason why you can only drive with your instructor sitting next to you,
maybe your afraid of driving alone, and succeding would make that a reality or maybe you should just quit cause your really just not good enough and never will be.
arabianights
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I'd just assume I was a crap driver tbh
I'd still keep on having a go because in the words of the IRA you only need to get lucky once
I'd still keep on having a go because in the words of the IRA you only need to get lucky once
cuotes
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It doesn't matter why are you afraid :|
The fact is that you are afraid and that affect your performance at any field. Including trading.
Are you failing in the market? Maybe (perhaps) is fear to success.
Discovering your fears and facing them is beyond the scope of this post
The fact is that you are afraid and that affect your performance at any field. Including trading.
Are you failing in the market? Maybe (perhaps) is fear to success.
Discovering your fears and facing them is beyond the scope of this post
arabianights
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That's an unfalsifiable hypothesis and thus popper would have slapped you in the face and screamed UNSCIENTIFIC
cuotes
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Of course my approach is unscientific
So what?
As long as it help you to improve, it doesn't matter. If worried, maybe you can find serious studies on the topic.
Take it like a point of view. Or just a possibility. Perhaps thinking about it could help you to overcome some difficulties. Am I affraid of success? How it does affect to my performance?
For me, whatever can help me to improve is worthy to pay attention.
arabianights
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Of course my approach is unscientific
So what?
As long as it help you to improve, it doesn't matter. If worried, maybe you can find serious studies on the topic.
Take it like a point of view. Or just a possibility. Perhaps thinking about it could help you to overcome some difficulties. Am I affraid of success? How it does affect to my performance?
For me, whatever can help me to improve is worthy to pay attention.
What I'm getting at is that you have no way of telling whether it has any meaning or not. I assume you see the issue?
arabianights
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Vaco
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true,
I'm struggling to find an argument here, maybe because there isn't one, the article is only helpfull in as much as to get traders that are struggling to achieve their goals (success) to look within rather then blaming external factors.
cuotes
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Maybe the problem is that I can't make me clear in english, sorry
I summarize my point of view and let's see which points you don't agree.
1. Trading is a psychological activity.
2. Your personality influence your decision making.
3. Your personality has been forged by your experiences and environment.
4. Your personality is controlled, in part, by your subconscious.
5. Your subconscious could be working against you. You're your own worse enemy.
6. Your subconscious COULD BE generating fear to success due to past experiences or current conditions (e.g lack of selfsteem)
7. So, you can pause for a sec and ask yourself if that is the problem. And stop blaming the market, indicators or whatever you use to blame.
Of course, I have no way of telling whether this approach is scientific or clinically correct. But it sounds feasible to me.
I reckon it could explain many failures at trading.
note: I'm not interested in imposing my opinion. I just want to debate different points of view.
B
Black Swan
Posted before, but worth inserting on this thread IMHO
There are surely other difficult endeavors , but trading, it finds your weak spots with unerring precision...
How many guys do you know who can accept being wrong?
How many guys do you know who can be wrong and lose money?
How many guys do you know who can be wrong. lose money and not feel bad?
How many guys do you know who can be wrong, lose money, not feel bad and reverse their position?
How many guys do you know who can be wrong, lose money, not feel bad, and reverse their position quickly?
Don's point is that trading requires an unusual combination of emotional resilience (the ability to tolerate being wrong) and mental flexibility (the ability to use losses as information and quickly change one's position in the markets).
Many people have a need to be right. That makes it difficult to quickly accept losses, and it makes it especially difficult to flip one's views. The best traders don't have a need to be right, and in fact they readily admit that there's many times they're wrong.
There's a different reason why trading might be one of the world's most difficult occupations: the rules of the game are always changing. In most performance activities, from sports to chess, the rules don't change from year to year. Market patterns, however, are continually shifting: trends change, volatility changes, and historical patterns that worked at one time suddenly fail during the next time period (a phenomenon that has recently tripped up several quant funds).
Because markets are ever-changing, success is never assured. Indeed, it's not at all unusual for very successful traders to re-enter a learning curve when market conditions change radically. It takes a very secure person to be able to accept those returns to the learning curve, and it takes a highly conscientious person to keep losses down when market patterns undergo a major shift.
Don has a great point. The average person loves job security; trading offers none. The average person loves success; trading invariably ensures periods of loss. The average person wants to be right; plenty of great traders are wrong half the time. Trading can be a tremendous challenge and a highly rewarding activity, but to get to that point, you have to be emotionally wired differently from the average person.
http://traderfeed.blogspot.com/2008/02/why-trading-might-be-most-difficult-job.html
There are surely other difficult endeavors , but trading, it finds your weak spots with unerring precision...
How many guys do you know who can accept being wrong?
How many guys do you know who can be wrong and lose money?
How many guys do you know who can be wrong. lose money and not feel bad?
How many guys do you know who can be wrong, lose money, not feel bad and reverse their position?
How many guys do you know who can be wrong, lose money, not feel bad, and reverse their position quickly?
Don's point is that trading requires an unusual combination of emotional resilience (the ability to tolerate being wrong) and mental flexibility (the ability to use losses as information and quickly change one's position in the markets).
Many people have a need to be right. That makes it difficult to quickly accept losses, and it makes it especially difficult to flip one's views. The best traders don't have a need to be right, and in fact they readily admit that there's many times they're wrong.
There's a different reason why trading might be one of the world's most difficult occupations: the rules of the game are always changing. In most performance activities, from sports to chess, the rules don't change from year to year. Market patterns, however, are continually shifting: trends change, volatility changes, and historical patterns that worked at one time suddenly fail during the next time period (a phenomenon that has recently tripped up several quant funds).
Because markets are ever-changing, success is never assured. Indeed, it's not at all unusual for very successful traders to re-enter a learning curve when market conditions change radically. It takes a very secure person to be able to accept those returns to the learning curve, and it takes a highly conscientious person to keep losses down when market patterns undergo a major shift.
Don has a great point. The average person loves job security; trading offers none. The average person loves success; trading invariably ensures periods of loss. The average person wants to be right; plenty of great traders are wrong half the time. Trading can be a tremendous challenge and a highly rewarding activity, but to get to that point, you have to be emotionally wired differently from the average person.
http://traderfeed.blogspot.com/2008/02/why-trading-might-be-most-difficult-job.html
