Intraday trading from home - the challenges and rewards

[JTrader]

Intraday trading from home - the challenges, barriers and rewards

Hi

during my main previous spell of intraday trading (FTSE100 stocks, 5 minute charts, D4F spreadbet) things went pretty well. I was successful from day one, and building up to £6 per point I managed to treble my starting £1000 in around 5 months. I then decided that trading from my parents living room, with ironing boards, TV's, arguments etc. flying around was not the ideal situation!

Since then I have continued to gain a broader education on the markets, in the knowledge that i can return to trading and expect to be successful, once my life/home circumstances are more settled.

Within these 5 months, the first few months were really exciting and the time flew by. However, once the novelty wore off slightly and I realised that like with any other job, trading is hard work, I found day-day trading more of a struggle.

A lot of this I put down to it being a steep learning curve, and the fact that i was trading from my parents living room, with everyone telling me to go out and get a real job! Less than ideal circumstances!

I am of the opinion that if and when I recommence active intraday trading, with my own premises and my now much more comprehensive trading knowledge, things will be easier, less stressful etc.

The one aspect of trading that i struggled with was the solitary nature of home trading. Knowing that I had to find the energy, intensity and motivation to spend the next 4-8 hours on my, with no-one to talk to as would be the case in a normal work environment. Now as I say, my circumstances were not ideal, single 26 year old man spending his working day housebound, alone, or interrupted by others. In realilty, I found the lack of physical and social stimulation, along with all the other challenges mentioned, hindering to my levels of mental alertness, desire etc.

I am just wondering, how others cope with these same issues, perhaps you have found a way to use this solitary work environment to your advantage, afterall, peace and quiet are the perfect ingredients for concentration. Perhaps you hit an intraday trading block/brick wall, but came out the other side all the better for it. If so, how did you do this? just perseverance and continuing to turn up "at work" everyday, as would be the case in any other profession? I suppose that people just get on with work, as they have to in order to survive..................

I'm thinking that i'd find home based intraday trading much easier if and when I'm married with children etc. at least then I'll be motivated, with something very obvious things and people in my life - to work for. Has this been the case with you?

How have you turned all these types of circumstances and challenges to your advantage, and how have you adapted your daily lifestyle/routines, making intraday home based trading a win-win situation and not a complete struggle/torment/ordeal?

All feedback appreciated

Many thanks

jtrader.

 

[JonnyT]

Well I fit the category of married with Children trading from home and I can tell you it isn't easy.

The kids and the wife are always pestering you, breaking concentration. The wife doesn't think its a job amd accuses me if being lazy as I do nothing else from 8am to 4pm. She doesn't work and spends all her time socializing!

Additionally as yet I've not made any money so it adds pressure when you know you have others to look after. This Christmas for example is going to be the most frugal on record as I asked everyione not to buy presents as I wont be buying for them. The kids will be lucky to get £50 spent on them each.

In the three months of trading I've also put on around 12Lbs. This is because I get less excersize and am eating like a pig out of the depression of losing money.

So all in all its different but I think being single and trading is easier.

JonnyT

 

[Sharky]

Dealing with the solitude of being at home on your own all day, is something I've struggled with running T2W. When I had the office in Coventry it was a bit better, because I shared with Eamonn (EK1) - I'm now back in London, and in a similar position to before I was in Coventry. It's only been a week or so, since the change of circumstance, but I've tried to be a lot more pro-active about my lifestyle. For instance I joined the local gym, and have made it a rule to go every day (it get's me out of the house), also I've tried to compensate the lack of interaction during the day, with having a busier social life in the evenings. I think the combination of the two really makes a difference, and when you hear all your friends are stressed out with their jobs - you quickly realise how lucky you are!

 

[Trader333]

Well I fit the category of married with Children trading from home and I can tell you it isn't easy.

The kids and the wife are always pestering you, breaking concentration. The wife doesn't think its a job amd accuses me if being lazy as I do nothing else from 8am to 4pm. She doesn't work and spends all her time socializing!

Additionally as yet I've not made any money so it adds pressure when you know you have others to look after. This Christmas for example is going to be the most frugal on record as I asked everyione not to buy presents as I wont be buying for them. The kids will be lucky to get £50 spent on them each.

In the three months of trading I've also put on around 12Lbs. This is because I get less excersize and am eating like a pig out of the depression of losing money.

So all in all its different but I think being single and trading is easier.

JonnyT

This really is not a good situation. If you have not been able to make a living from this in the last 3 months then you will also be putting even greater pressure on yourself to perform which can only compound the problem. It may be time to look at going back to software development.


Paul

 

[blackcab]

This really is not a good situation. If you have not been able to make a living from this in the last 3 months then you will also be putting even greater pressure on yourself to perform which can only compound the problem. It may be time to look at going back to software development.

How does this statement square with what a lot of people here say about needing a year to learn/adapt (lose), another year to find your feet (break even), and only getting profitable in the third year? It must vary enormously between people, but if JT had the capital to ride another year would you really suggest giving up now instead?

For me I'd expect that having dependents would give you the extra impetus to find the discipline to succeed, compared with being young & single, and that would outweigh the interruptions, dealing with partner/child off sick, etc. but everyone has a different opinion.

What struck me about JT's post was his wife's attitude. How different would it have been if before he started fulltime they'd agreed about it being a proper job, he was doing it for his family not despite them, that it could take a year of losses, that it might never work but needed at least a year with no recriminations, judgements etc. to find out? I'm not trying to stick my nose in - it just leapt out as maybe the big problem.

Thanks for the (I assume!) honest posts jt and JT - these are the best kinds of posts to read imho and are much appreciated.

 

[JTrader]

Thanks chaps for the honest answers.

Exercise and putting on weight were also issues with me - having not a lot to do and knowing that the fridge is only 10 yards away!

I think that from a self-management point of view, if a person can truly master being in full control of their self will, discipline, including things like being active on an evening etc., then they will feel really good about themselves and in control of their lives. The alternative is to be indiscipllined, lack self motivation and end up feeling bad about yourself...........

I'm working at the moment. A was listening to a woman at work telling her colleague the other day about her builder husband, who is self-employed, has plenty of jobs on, but works 12-hour days, has had 1 day off (a sunday) in 6 months, is on call to do small jobs like boarding up windows after a break-in most of the day, who may be making decent money, but says that he just keeps going in order to stay above water, because if he stops, he feels like he'll sink...............

Compare this to the life of a trader, and I know which job that I would expect to be toughest (builder). The thing is that the two types of roles present uniquely different challanges. A builders job has that physical, active, probably social, and always productive element to it, allowing the person to express themselves and be percieved by many people and outside of the home, as a big tough man/hero. A home based intraday trader is faced with solitude, physical inactivity (during their shift), long periods of having nothing to do, the need to concentrate, and for me with these factors combined - whilst intraday trading, time and space could take on a whole new meaning, as 4 hours can feel like 8!

But then again, in my current office role, time can pass very slowly, boredom is an issue, I am often sat at a desk, and continuing to do work, concentrate fully and apply myself when bored can be a struggle. But at least I am surrounded by people who are in the same boat, and I have the stimulus of seeing and hearing other people, moving around, switching tasks, and basically being able to express yourself to some degree etc.

Professionalism is about giving of your best, even when you don't feel like it, and this is what any job involves. I think that a true test of a person/adult is being able to survive and thrive in their work role, by getting on with it, giving their best even when they do not feel like it, and delivering a good service in their role.

The problem with trading is that you can give all the commitment, professionalism, enthusiasm, drive etc. and be left with a deficit, let alone a days pay at the end of the day. This is the disillusioning/difficult to take aspect of trading. I reckon that this is what JonnyT is presently experiencing.........

When I first got into trading, I went to visit a local builder/trader who has a really nice BIG house and garden in a really nice area, with a big wooden shed/office at the end of his garden, from where he'd traded from for 8 years. He had also had others (up to 4 other traders - in the past) rent office space, and they came and worked next to him, so at least then it took on a social element. He told me of a local trader/business man who he'd seen make £700,000 profit in one day in the same very office. He himself was around 50 and traded FTSE100 actual stocks intraday, using only the level 2 screen and had been successful from 95-99, turning his initial £40k into £500,000, during the tech boom as stock prices doubled in price, very quickly! Then from 2000 his £500,000 became £150k as the bulls turned into bears. He was left with a big (something like 5000 shares), worthless position in Marconi that he'd seen fall from around £10 a share. He then started spreadbetting the same products with D4F, and as far as I know was fairly successful (in 2003), otherwise he wouldn't have been doing it. He'd started to use charts alongside level 2, around 2002 I think. He was building a few houses to sell on, on his big plot of land, on the side. Anyway my point is that he was able to survive and thrive for 8 years and often traded for 12-13 hours a day................I'd like to think that I could do comparable things with the correct motivation, facilities, support etc. (although I'd settle for £250,000 net trading profits in 3-5 years!)

I'm just wondering if others adults have found that with trading, or any other job, that you have faced, you have faced a boredom/motivation/desire/intensity/discipline/self-will brick wall, and have you found that sheer perseverence and/or lifestyle modifications got you through such adversity, and feel that you are a stronger/better person, trader, or employee for it? I suppose we could label it all "character building!"

Many thanks

jtrader .

 

[JTrader]

If I had to use one word to describe how I felt at the end of my previous intraday trading experience, it would be
LETHARGIC, physically and mentally.

I think that my circumstances - trading from parents living room with a dial-up connection! family perception, steep learning curve, unsettled lifestyle - all added significantly to this, and if and when I recommence traidng, I would want to improve upon how I felt then, and feel that better facilities, better all round trading knowledge, more settled personal life and daily lifestyle and routines should help.

As a person I am not very image conscious, and I am very genuine and not false. Some people are iamge conscious. And I think some people's self-image or self-perception is largely based upon what they do to earn a living, or their leisure activities, and perhaps their manner, ways of behaving, and personal image (style of dress, hair etc.) begin to reflect what they think, a doctor, IT whizz kid, Lawyer, teacher, headhunter, accountant, nurse, hairdresser, rugby player, golfer, TV presenter, pop star - should look and behave like.

Perhaps one way to make things more interesting as a trader would be to really go to town on, and really get into the character of being a trader. Intense, driven, self important approach of Gordon Ghekko etc.!!!!

Cheers

jtrader.

 

[Baruch]

Well I fit the category of married with Children trading from home and I can tell you it isn't easy.

The kids and the wife are always pestering you, breaking concentration. The wife doesn't think its a job amd accuses me if being lazy as I do nothing else from 8am to 4pm. She doesn't work and spends all her time socializing!

Additionally as yet I've not made any money so it adds pressure when you know you have others to look after. This Christmas for example is going to be the most frugal on record as I asked everyione not to buy presents as I wont be buying for them. The kids will be lucky to get £50 spent on them each.

In the three months of trading I've also put on around 12Lbs. This is because I get less excersize and am eating like a pig out of the depression of losing money.

So all in all its different but I think being single and trading is easier.

JonnyT

Maybe you should rent a office? To show your wife and children that trading is a job...

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

Maybe you should rent a office? To show your wife and children that trading is a job...

First post here, so hello to all.

Crikey, with finances going the way they seem to, the additional burden of office rent would seem to be the last thing he needs.

Sharkey is spot on, as far as I'm concerned (ie his method works for me). Yes I sit in the study all day (although in the summer, the wonders of Wi-Fi meant I could sit in the garden!), and you just have to be very disciplined about starting and finishing at a set time, shutting the door behind you and having a life. For me, the kids have tea at 5pm, so that's when I come downstairs with the PC turned off. If it's been a bad day, I have a beer and forget about it. If its been a good day, I also have a beer and forget about it. Discipline also to make sure that two nights a week I go out with my wife, two nights a week I go out with friends and one evening I take one of the kids to her swimming club. In the summer, I'll fit in a bike ride or long walk at least once or twice a week too. In the winter a trip to the gym.

As long as you can convince yourself that you have a life outside trading then the lonely hours in front of a screen don't get to you. And when I last worked, my desk was within sight of the vending machine, rather than downstairs in the kitchen. I've actually lost weight since trading from home!

 

[donaldduke]

Maybe you should rent a office? To show your wife and children that trading is a job...

Trading isnt a job, its a business.

Theres a big difference.

 

[Parky]

The grass is always greener on the other side as they say.
I have seen many traders move from arcades and prop shops to trade from home full of fanciful images of strolling to the PC switching on making some money and then shooting off to the golf club. Most came back to the office after a few weeks or months with their tails firmly between their legs.
Firstly as we have seen above, the spouses and kids are a constant distraction and unless you can lock a door and secure yourself away the distractions are a huge problem.
Then the much maligned social aspect are usually missed, the information flow and the ability to cross feed with other traders.
Then those that managed some solitude found they got bored and traded for the sake of trading effectively over trading and loosing money.
Of the dozen or so traders who tried it only two made it work, one built his own office in his garage and was an Options trader with a trading model that worked and was quite content with his own company, the other a phenomenal spread trader trading the Euribor and Eurodollar was an antisocial character anyway.
A few have set up local offices as a compromise with mates and that works well with the discipline of going too work but the convenience of a local journey.
As with all things horses for courses.

 

[JTrader]

Jack o Clubs -
As long as you can convince yourself that you have a life outside trading then the lonely hours in front of a screen don't get to you. And when I last worked, my desk was within sight of the vending machine, rather than downstairs in the kitchen. I've actually lost weight since trading from home!

Good point, I think that this would be the key for me.

Parky - The grass is always greener on the other side as they say.

This is a good point also, and applicable to me in many ways. I amquite often guilty of thinking like that the grass will be greener on the other side. I think i'll be more content when I stop this, and embrace fully what I have......................

 

[Trader333]

How does this statement square with what a lot of people here say about needing a year to learn/adapt (lose), another year to find your feet (break even), and only getting profitable in the third year? It must vary enormously between people, but if JT had the capital to ride another year would you really suggest giving up now instead?

This is all about what one can afford to do and each case is unique. JonnyT has been trading a long time and only recently taken it up full time. My views were based on his own comments about the affordability of Christmas and if things are this tight now then 2 more years down the line would be extremely difficult. I may have misread this and if so I apologise to him but if not then the old adage of trading is highly appropriate and that is to cut a loss incurring situation immediately. Trading can always be done on a part time basis and I know few people who have the resources to trade for 3 years full time without becoming profitable fairly quickly.



Paul

 

[Mr. Charts]

JonnyT,
I think the very last thing you do is to give up what you want to do in life and walk away. If you did so, I think it would be a waste of your talents and potential - and you would always regret it, though I am sure you wouldn't blame family pressures.
Persevere, persevere and never give up. Winners work, losers walk. Of course the pre-requisite is that the ability and will is there. Well, I'll stick my neck out quite happily and say that in my opinion you can certainly be a successful trader and earn a good living for your wife and kids - and for yourself.
There are others around who do. If they can do it, YOU certainly can.
Like with anything in life, having recognised the problems, you then address them with sheer determination and application and make it happen.
You can do it - and you will.
Richard

 

[JTrader]

Hi tsuntzu

I am 20 miles from Leeds, where there may be some kind of arcades available.

On the one hand, it would be very interesting to trade in a "team" environmentowever, theres always the chance that I would then be complaining about not being able to concentrate! (the grass being greener on the other side etc...............) but on the whole, I think that being the type of person that I am, I would probably benefit from such an environment. Only downside is I hate commuting into busy towns and cities, and I would need to be even more committed/organised, so perhaps would wish to fully try organised home trading beforehand.

It is all pretty superficial stuff that makes me tick on a daily basis, physically moving about, small amounts of social interaction with others, routine and well orgainsed tea and snack breaks.

Just out of interest, if trading in an arcade, how does it work?
Do you trade with 100% your own funds, and just pay rent on your desk and PC? Can you trade with any broker using any charting applications etc?
How much do arcades charge roughly (in London), and do they make you sign a "tenancy agreement"?

Many thanks

jtrader.

 

[coolTrader]

interesting post :!: I trade from home and I love every minute of it. Yes the first year is hard but then again I did not know that until I got into it. but because I was successful sometimes and others not then I began to try to replicate my successful days. This has worked. I also decided to start paying myself and not wait till I am on big size bets I.

I used to trade very aggressively etc sometimes £10 but there were huge losses as a result. I am changed.

Best way out start with the small lots manage your finances. JT when your account runs into profit pay yourself and show your family you have paid yourself.

Go for walks, gym and above all pray for success. I find the gym gives me a break .

I am sure everyone here has had these experience being spoken about. I am walking my way up. Any time I get hit big time its back to basics. Make up and then try again.

When you start running your a profitable account pay your self. Don't wait for £10,000 a month before you start.

Remember when there is a loosing day there is tomorrow. :cheesy: Even now it takes a while to discover we are in a choppy day. Then it is time to do something else. eg running ,tv but trade.

For distractions headphones work!

 

[donaldduke]

This really is not a good situation. If you have not been able to make a living from this in the last 3 months then you will also be putting even greater pressure on yourself to perform which can only compound the problem. It may be time to look at going back to software development.

Paul

I have to agree with this 100%, give it another three months, but in the mean time get
your CV ready and start looking for work.

The only expection might be if you are prepared to get coaching from a successful pro trader
(like Mr Charts).

 

[RUDEBOY]

JT, if you are serious, i sincerely hope things work out for you in the end, and i mean it. Good luck! We are all slaves to money, nobody living in the real world can escape this fact, and, we all have a quality of life in mind. There is nothing wrong in wanting better, better for YOU, that's quite normal. Wives and kids have to be intergrated into the big picture though. Trading sucks people in, people on the fringe of becomming successful traders all too often take that step, that step too far too soon, and it's a shame. I'll let you into my head. I've made a promise to myself that i will always be a trader, through thick and thin. It get's easier. Good luck. RUDEBOY.

 

[JEDI]

Trading from home is a solitary environment and sometimes I ask myself if in fact it is healthy but I feel as long as one finds a balance throughout the day then it can be most enjoyable. I trade the dow futures so my working day does not begin till 2.30pm, in the morning I go for a run or go to the gym whilst im watching the markets I speak to friends on the phone and after the markets shut always go out two friends or visit my girlfriend. The point is I always try to stay busy socially and the way I see it the more money I make when I trade the more options I will have to do things socially when im not trading.
I live in Bradford which is next door to Leeds Jtrader where are you from? its interesting to hear from anyone living remotely close to me on this site

 

[counter_violent]

JonnyT,
I think the very last thing you do is to give up what you want to do in life and walk away. If you did so, I think it would be a waste of your talents and potential - and you would always regret it, though I am sure you wouldn't blame family pressures.
Persevere, persevere and never give up. Winners work, losers walk. Of course the pre-requisite is that the ability and will is there. Well, I'll stick my neck out quite happily and say that in my opinion you can certainly be a successful trader and earn a good living for your wife and kids - and for yourself.
There are others around who do. If they can do it, YOU certainly can.
Like with anything in life, having recognised the problems, you then address them with sheer determination and application and make it happen.
You can do it - and you will.
Richard

Yes address the problems and you are left with the solution ....spot on.....and it's bloody hard work driving yourself