Indicators Are Not Liars

[TEAMTRADER]

Indicators are the best way to filter out the erratic price movements.
Some indicators follow the price at times, but at other times they tell you when the price is wrong.
If there is an indicator that can be used for all then it will be an oscillator - take your choice but make sure you understand how it works before trading live money.
If anyone believes they can be better without an indicator then please feel free to reply.
TEAMTRADER

 

[wasp]

Indicators are the best way to filter out the erratic price movements.
Some indicators follow the price at times, but at other times they tell you when the price is wrong.
If there is an indicator that can be used for all then it will be an oscillator - take your choice but make sure you understand how it works before trading live money.
If anyone believes they can be better without an indicator then please feel free to reply.
TEAMTRADER

Indicators are a visual representation, derived from price, in various formats.

They don't tell you anything price is not and they do not filter anything either, they just remove your attention from the source.

Not to say one cannot profit on a regular basis from the use of indicators but they are only telling you the same thing as price, just a bit later and in pretty different colours... why bother?

 

[TEAMTRADER]

Differ

I beg to differ.
Divergence is the perfect illustration of the price being wrong.
That's not to say that you cannot make a profit not using indicators, but after 30 years of tradingI don't know a pro that does not use at least one. I know a couple who boast they don't, but they use other information.
Otherwise they are generally called unemployed pro traders.
Regards
TEAMTRADER

Indicators are a visual representation, derived from price, in various formats.

They don't tell you anything price is not and they do not filter anything either, they just remove your attention from the source.

Not to say one cannot profit on a regular basis from the use of indicators but they are only telling you the same thing as price, just a bit later and in pretty different colours... why bother?

 

[wasp]

Price is not wrong. Price is price. Price is the result, the source, the whole point... how can it be wrong?

 

[counter_violent]

I beg to differ.
Divergence is the perfect illustration of the price being wrong.
That's not to say that you cannot make a profit not using indicators, but after 30 years of tradingI don't know a pro that does not use at least one. I know a couple who boast they don't, but they use other information.
Otherwise they are generally called unemployed pro traders.
Regards
TEAMTRADER

Go on ....i'll play

UP or DOWN ?

 

[TEAMTRADER]

ALL down.

ALL down. But a clever illustration of what is the first signal.
TEAMTRADER

Go on ....i'll play

UP or DOWN ?

 

[TEAMTRADER]

If you believe that price is the only factor in trading then OK, no point in continuing but I hope other traders put more learning into trading as learning is power.
The price is dictated by buyers and sellers, the market is governed by greed and fear. Gaps,spikes and patterns suggest when things are wrong with the price, and that is the market suggesting that the price is going the wrong way.
Regards and good luck.
TEAMTRADER

Price is not wrong. Price is price. Price is the result, the source, the whole point... how can it be wrong?

 

[UKtradergirl]

If you believe that price is the only factor in trading then OK, no point in continuing but I hope other traders put more learning into trading as learning is power.
The price is dictated by buyers and sellers, the market is governed by greed and fear. Gaps,spikes and patterns suggest when things are wrong with the price, and that is the market suggesting that the price is going the wrong way.
Regards and good luck.
TEAMTRADER

When i use indicators my trading decisions are awful. They usually tell me the opposite of what i thought when considering the price action which makes me not take a trade- a trade which i would have been correct on.

I'm sure they have a place in trading- and i'm forever on the lookout for anything that can improve my trading. So, not ruled out entirely for me.

In the current climate its not hard to see where price is heading anyway. When things start getting choppy i may reconsider.

 

[options]

Price is king and the only true representation of what the players as a whole are feeling/ acting.

Yes I agree with you that certain indicators are perceived as better than others for price prediction. But you cannot act until price confirms what you are wanting to believe.

What about all the times when you get false signals from the divergence and 'price' does not do what it is 'supposed' to?

Until price breaks through that trend line you cannot act. Well, you could do but it may be premature and prove costly.

indicators offer a 'certain' comfort for those not able to use price on its own but it does take away your total concentration on just one thing. (price patterns).

Price will tell you when it is ready to move.
Indicators are a result of computer technology and cannot be relied on totally.

Unless of course you are using something that little bit differently, and it is right every single time.

Otherwise this thread will just go around and around in pointless circles as it has all been said before.

 

[north5]

TT,

I am confused by your posts. In your first post you say that indicators filter out erractic price movements and are therefore of use. In another post you say that the erractic price movements are what shows that a price is undergoing re-evaluation and likely to be out of sync with perceptions and needs adjusting.

Now I agree with both those statements - however the only conclusion I can draw is that indicators are useful when there is no major re-evaluation of price and only when current conditions will continue. However, it makes them useless when price perception is undergoing change, and this is usually the most profitable time to enter a market.

So no indicators are not liars - but they are sometimes out of date because the sample they used to reach their conclusion is no longer valid - and so their indication is no longer valid.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Although invited to respond to what may be better than an indicator, will members please respect that this thread is in indicators.

So please do not turn this into a price only is best squabble. Allow the OP room to put his point across.

Thanks

 

[wasp]

If anyone believes they can be better without an indicator then please feel free to reply.

Although invited to respond to what may be better than an indicator, will members please respect that this thread is in indicators.

So please do not turn this into a price only is best squabble. Allow the OP room to put his point across.

Thanks

Fair enough LM but he did ask!

 

[options]

Although invited to respond to what may be better than an indicator, will members please respect that this thread is in indicators.

So please do not turn this into a price only is best squabble. Allow the OP room to put his point across.

Thanks

SSSheeeeesh LMQ Get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning? Hangover? Or did you forget to put your clock back and get up too early? LOL!

TT invited in the first post opinions and views on his words regarding indicators. Now he is either going to come back and enlighten us with what and how he uses certain indicators, and unless he can give us a different slant on usage, (which I hope he can). The first post will be as useful as saying pivots on a chart work every time. Which of course they do. (Only you might not get the result YOU want.)

If TT has something useful to say and I'm sure he has after 30 years trading, he should have seen and used just about everything going. I'm guessing he is not (or was not) just a private trader, which would have put him on the floors, or behind a desk in institutions.

The 'purists' amongst us use price only to trade, but that is not to say we are not aware of other factors, (including indicators). Fact is you only need price on a chart to trade. Price is the only thing I watch when about to trade, am in a trade and when I am looking for an exit regardless of what anything else is saying.

If there is something I am missing about indicators then I (and most of the other people on here) are happy to listen to TT's view. (And after 30 years of trading I think he has a reasonable thick skin by now).

I don't think any of us have a closed mind when it comes to trading. If you did have, then you have no chance of further knowledge. But after a certain while you have heard most of everything a hundred times before. That is not to say that something won't surprise you now and again.

Take the thread on time in trading. No one can say that time is not important in trading.
But how many people understand how time affects trading? I certainly struggle with the understanding, but not the concept!

 

[new_trader]

Although invited to respond to what may be better than an indicator, will members please respect that this thread is in indicators.

So please do not turn this into a price only is best squabble. Allow the OP room to put his point across.

Thanks

It would make MUCH more sense to move this thread into the general trading discussion forum than to over-moderate it and make it a heavily biased 'squabble'. I agree, if someone is sharing/teaching/explaining a way to trade using indicators (or any other methodology) then it shouldn't be interfered with if it is in the appropriate section. That is completely different to someone INVITING opinions from those who disagree.

 

[2George]

I agree that some indicators are difficult to follow and there are some that just do not fit a chart.
However, as I specialise in the CCI, I can guarantee if you add this to your chart under the setting 55 with normal 100/zero/-100 levels, you will see a new picture.
I have other settings in addition to that one but if you start with that you will see where your mistakes were in the past, and that is a very good place to start.
Happy to help.
Regards
George

When i use indicators my trading decisions are awful. They usually tell me the opposite of what i thought when considering the price action which makes me not take a trade- a trade which i would have been correct on.

I'm sure they have a place in trading- and i'm forever on the lookout for anything that can improve my trading. So, not ruled out entirely for me.

In the current climate its not hard to see where price is heading anyway. When things start getting choppy i may reconsider.

 

[Trader333]

Until price breaks through that trend line you cannot act.

Isn't a trendline an indicator ?


Paul

 

[wasp]

Isn't a trendline an indicator ?


Paul

Isn't a candlestick........?

 

[Trader333]

Isn't a candlestick........?

Yes so at what point can price no longer be classed as price and suddenly becomes an indicator ?


Paul

 

[wasp]

the tape...... streaming flashing prices is the truest form of price, as price, right.............now!

anything else is lagging and an indicator

 

[options]

Isn't a trendline an indicator ?


Paul

Only if you draw it in. It is just as easy to 'see' the trend with your eyes.