Importance of volume

JungleJim said:
Has anyone on this thread read either/both books and can recommend one (or another that I have not found yet) then I would be very grateful.

There are two classic books that deal with the interpretation of price & volume:

"Tape Reading & Market tactics" Humphrey B. Neill

"Studies In Tape Reading" Rollo Tape (AKA Richard D. Wykoff)

I read the first book five times in one week when I first got it.

Good luck.
 
Volume: Important v Useful

The thread got bogged down over a rather theological dispute over whether volume, assuming it to be important, could be in some methodical way tamed and made useful. One party maintained that it was in principle impossible to model the way that volume influenced price, but if you did enough eyeballing of the screen, under suitable guidance, you would end up being able to make use of the volume information intuitively. Others were looking for a systematic (and numerically testable) way of modelling the intuitive competence.

If you stand back from this, it seems clear that the intuitives not only declined to explain their competence in the use of volume -which we have assumed, to be important, so let's assume its proponents successfully use it as claimed - but gratuitously accused the backtesters (notably Culion) of bad faith, and the debate foundered.

Since then, there have been two developments. The intuitives seem largely to have ceased posting (the thread "No Indicators" which was formerly their preserve, seems to be languishing) and there is a new thread on these matters led by dbPhoenix (a distinguished practitioner of the price volume school, apparently in exile from Elite Trader). The dbPhoenix thread is probably your best port of call on t2w if you want to pursue these ideas. If you were to succeed in encouraging a renewed debate on the subject of this thread, it is to be hoped that more light is generated, and less heat.
 
Which leads me to wonder, has anyone done/seen a comparison of vwap for any instrument against market profile for same instrument?

vwap being interested with volume at each price - MP focusing on time at each price level.
 
I have read the comments on this thread. Surely the point of this forum is to try to help each other ? After all, we are the small guys, and we need each other.

With this in mind, here are the results of some research, which may or not be useful to participants of this thread.

I looked back at Hourly data for GBP (spot) for the period from 1/7/03 to 19/8/04, there were 295 trading days in my data set. For each day, which in this case is defined as 24h00:00 to 23h59:59 GMT, I looked for the hour bar with the highest tick volume (couldn't use volume as it's spot hence no volume available, tick data is next best), and then at the closing price for the day, relative to the prices during the highest volume bar.

OK, I know, before someone starts shouting, this may be useless in practise for actual trading purposes, because how could we know at the time whether we had just seen the hour bar that would eventually have highest volume for the day ? However, the point of the exercise was to see whether there was any sort of bounce occurring as a result of the high volume, or whether the results would appear to be random. If the latter, then we might conclude that (tick) volume studies, for hour bars and GBP at least, are essentially a waste of time. I will leave you all to draw your own conclusions from this small data set :

No of days = 295
No of days closing (at 23h59:59) WITHIN highest volume hour bar price range = 132
No of days closing (at 23h59:59) ABOVE highest volume hour bar price range = 92
No of days closing (at 23h59:59) BELOW highest volume hour bar price range = 71

(HVB = high volume bar)

HVB was an UP bar closing INSIDE the HVB price range = 66
HVB was an UP bar closing ABOVE the HVB price range = 57
HVB was an UP bar closing BELOW the HVB price range = 24
HVB was a DOWN bar closing INSIDE the HVB price range = 66
HVB was a DOWN bar closing ABOVE the HVB price range = 35
HVB was a DOWN bar closing BELOW the HVB price range = 47

So, for the UP bars, 57 out of 147 times the price finished up at the end of the day above the high of the bar. For the DOWN bars, 47 times out of 148 times the price carried on falling below the low of the HVB. IOW, 191 times out of 295, the high volume bar seemed to create a price reversal, which (to me) appears to be more than just a statistical aberration. Or maybe not, who knows.

Whether you feel that this is tradable is another matter, but I find the results interesting nevertheless. The next step might be to look at futures data, and the closing ranges on these HVBs.

rog1111
 
A similar study for a smaller dataset of hourly QQQ prices with normal trading hours reveals the following

(HVB = high volume bar)

HVB was an UP bar closing INSIDE the HVB price range = 80
HVB was an UP bar closing ABOVE the HVB price range = 32
HVB was an UP bar closing BELOW the HVB price range = 13
HVB was a DOWN bar closing INSIDE the HVB price range = 95
HVB was a DOWN bar closing ABOVE the HVB price range = 20
HVB was a DOWN bar closing BELOW the HVB price range = 22

This may be misleading, as sometimes the last bar of the day has the highest volume, therefore it can't close outside of this bar, causing the results to be skewed. This is rarely the case for the GBP results given above.

rog1111
 
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rog1111 said:
The next step might be to look at futures data, and the closing ranges on these HVBs.

rog1111

Following on from the above GBP results, here are some more observations.

The HVB UP bars often closed in the upper 1/3 segment - 92/147, only 7 times in the lower segment.
The HVB DOWN bars often closed in the lower 1/3 segment - 96/148 times, only 8 times in the upper segment.

rog1111
 
More....

For GBP and the same time period :-

If the HVB of the day was an UP bar closing in the MIDDLE (33 to 66% range), then the close of the day was above the high of the HVB 15/48 times.

If the HVB of the day was a DOWN bar closing in the MIDDLE (33 to 66% range), then the close of the day was below the low of the HVB 13/44 times.

What about the following day ? (to be added later)

rog1111
 
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