IGindex requoted already closed trade?!

D

dmytro

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Hi guys, I happened to short ftse100 out of market hours - using IGindex SB account just when it fell to around 4420. I gained about 500 quid on that trade in about 5 seconds. Here's the catch, IGindex took money earned on that trade from my account in form of a 'cash correction' this morning.
When I called them and asked for the explanation, they said that market went crazy yday, prices weren't real and its only fair if they cancelled all the transactions(n) (after they have been closed).
They also mentioned that they refunded guys who incurred a loss as well on that trade. So 1) what do you think about this practice? (considering the very nature of the SB business and quote system they provide)
2) have any of you guys who traded at the time got similar experience?
 
Last edited:
dmytro said:
Hi guys, I happened to short ftse100 out of market hours - using IGindex SB account just when it fell to around 4420. I gained about 500 quid on that trade in about 5 seconds. Here's the catch, IGindex took money earned on that trade from my account in form of a 'cash correction' this morning.
When I called them and asked for the explanation, they said that market went crazy yday, prices weren't real and its only fair if they cancelled all the transactions (n) (after they have been closed).
They also mentioned that they refunded guys who incurred a loss as well on that trade. So 1) what do you think about this practice? (considering the very nature of the SB business and quote system they provide)
2) have any of you guys who traded at the time got similar experience?
Click to expand...

It wasn't with IG, but I had something similar happen to me a couple of months ago in a volatile market, and it was a lot of money, for me, at the time. I didn't complain though as I'd taken a lot of money off them that week and that day, so I was well up, even after losing this nice bonus. I did wonder if I would have been refunded if it had gone the other way, but fortunately so far, that hasn't happened with this account.
 
dmytro said:
Hi guys, I happened to short ftse100 out of market hours - using IGindex SB account just when it fell to around 4420. I gained about 500 quid on that trade in about 5 seconds. Here's the catch, IGindex took money earned on that trade from my account in form of a 'cash correction' this morning.
When I called them and asked for the explanation, they said that market went crazy yday, prices weren't real and its only fair if they cancelled all the transactions(n) (after they have been closed).
They also mentioned that they refunded guys who incurred a loss as well on that trade. So 1) what do you think about this practice? (considering the very nature of the SB business and quote system they provide)
2) have any of you guys who traded at the time got similar experience?
Click to expand...

this is normal FTSE didnt go below 4800 ...
 
Yeah I am kind of struggling to see any SB company depositing money on your account when you happened to be on the wrong side of the market during high volatility.
But my point is that they provided and provide prices (out of ftse100 market hours) that were not based on the underlying asset anymore. Hence the name spreadBETTING i belive. Even they say that 'aftermarket' prices might be more 'speculative'. Considering that these SB prices were executable and indeed executed, I belive they should not take money out of your account if you close winning trade this way. Or eventually cut your profits using ad hoc requoting.
 
dmytro said:
Yeah I am kind of struggling to see any SB company depositing money on your account when you happened to be on the wrong side of the market during high volatility.
But my point is that they provided and provide prices (out of ftse100 market hours) that were not based on the underlying asset anymore. Hence the name spreadBETTING i belive. Even they say that 'aftermarket' prices might be more 'speculative'. Considering that these SB prices were executable and indeed executed, I belive they should not take money out of your account if you close winning trade this way. Or eventually cut your profits using ad hoc requoting.
Click to expand...
FTSE futures closes at 21:00 , and their FTSE rolling moves in sync with the futures , anyway SB firms will credit your account if u were on the other side of the trade dont worry this is for sure ....
 
1) They should honour the trade according to their prices. They are making them up after all, you're not trading the real market, you're trading IG market.

2) Did they really refund those guys that lost as part of that move? Unlikely.

3) "market went crazy"- and so what? Market is often crazy. That's got nothing to do with it. Did they quote the price or not? That's like telling someone who has been long, that the markets had too much buying and so we're gonna cancel your profits. Again, did it trade there or not? If they thought it was so crazy they should have shut down their prices, and suspend trading.

4) If you're not happy, complain, if it isn't fixed to your satisfaction, trade with someone else.
 
tar said:
this is normal FTSE didnt go below 4800 ...
Click to expand...

I am not trying to argue here, just want to clarify this point. SB companies like IG as I understand it do not give you the price of the underlying asset (in this case index), they give you synthetic price in the form of a spread, which obviously moves in their favour. I compared frequently their price to bloomberg and found that the spread is not always x points each side around the market price of the instrument - correct me if I am wrong on this one pls.
I am not saying that they make price up or anything, but fact remains that they provide synthetic price for you to 'bet' on a market direction. You mentioned that FTSE didnt go below 4800, but their as I mentioned previously 'synthetic' price did. BEcause if FTSE indeed did go below 4800, which was very likely they would be covered. The fact that I was able to both enter and exit the trade below 4800 would somewhat prove that.
I am aware that I might have biased opinion as they kind of took 500 quid of mine :), but do you really think that any 'SpreadBetting' company should be allowed to take your money after you successfuly traded with their spread prices? I would like to here your opinion on this guys. Thanks
 
Guys this is fair and normal even regulated exchanges reverse trades like this , anyway Ftse didnt go below 4800 and according to IG's T&C they can reverse it :
"27. Manifest Error (1) We reserve the right to, without your consent, either void from the outset or
amend the terms of any Bet containing or based on any error that we reasonably
believe to be obvious or palpable (a “Manifest Error”). If, in our discretion, we choose
to amend the terms of any such Manifestly Erroneous Bet, the amended level will
be such level as we reasonably believe would have been fair at the time the Bet was
entered into. In deciding whether an error is a Manifest Error we must act reasonably
and we may take into account any relevant information including, without limitation,
the state of the Underlying Market at the time of the error or any mistake in, or lack of
clarity of, any information source or pronouncement upon which we base our quoted
prices. Any financial commitment that you have entered into or refrained from
entering into in reliance on a Bet with us will not be taken into account in deciding
whether or not there has been a Manifest Error.
(2) In the absence of wilful default or fraud by us we will not be liable to you for any
loss, cost, claim, demand or expense following a Manifest Error (including where
the Manifest Error is made by any information source, commentator or official upon
whom we reasonably rely).
(3) If a Manifest Error has occurred and we choose to exercise any of our rights under
Term 27(1), and if you have received any monies from us in connection with the
Manifest Error, you agree that those monies are due and payable to us and you agree
to return an equal sum to us without delay. "
 
Shakone said:
1) They should honour the trade according to their prices. They are making them up after all, you're not trading the real market, you're trading IG market.

2) Did they really refund those guys that lost as part of that move? Unlikely.

3) "market went crazy"- and so what? Market is often crazy. That's got nothing to do with it. Did they quote the price or not? That's like telling someone who has been long, that the markets had too much buying and so we're gonna cancel your profits. Again, did it trade there or not? If they thought it was so crazy they should have shut down their prices, and suspend trading.

4) If you're not happy, complain, if it isn't fixed to your satisfaction, trade with someone else.
Click to expand...

100% agree Shakone. Tar, are you by any chance working for IG? If so, I think that more guys here would like to know the methodology of IG prices to be 'in sync' with the market price.
 
dmytro said:
100% agree Shakone. Tar, are you by any chance working for IG? If so, I think that more guys here would like to know the methodology of IG prices to be 'in sync' with the market price.
Click to expand...

no i am not working with IG
 
The point is that SBs quote an index outside market hours based on what's happening in other indices, so there hasn't been a 'manifest error'. IMO it's irrelevant whether the market went mad, or that NASDAQ trades have been cancelled. All SB quotes did the same thing at the same time, following the real markets that were open.
I think you should complain, and if they argue say you'll contact the FOS, because that costs them plenty, apart from whether they have to pay back your money.
 
Jack Hughes said:
The point is that SBs quote an index outside market hours based on what's happening in other indices, so there hasn't been a 'manifest error'. IMO it's irrelevant whether the market went mad, or that NASDAQ trades have been cancelled. All SB quotes did the same thing at the same time, following the real markets that were open.
I think you should complain, and if they argue say you'll contact the FOS, because that costs them plenty, apart from whether they have to pay back your money.
Click to expand...

the real market was open and it didnt went below 4800 ( he traded at 4420 ), i was giving him example how exchanges can cancel trades if it were based on an erroneous quote ...
 
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tar said:
the real market was open and it didnt went below 4800 ( he traded at 4420 ), i was giving him example how exchanges can cancel trades if it were based on an erroneous quote ...
Click to expand...


IG can claim any price they quote as erroneus as all their prices
are indicative and you agree to trade at their prices. :innocent:
 
gedward3 said:
IG can claim any price they quote as erroneus as all their prices
are indicative and you agree to trade at their prices. :innocent:
Click to expand...

then nobody will use them they have to be fair
 
dmytro said:
Hi guys, I happened to short ftse100 out of market hours - using IGindex SB account just when it fell to around 4420. I gained about 500 quid on that trade in about 5 seconds. Here's the catch, IGindex took money earned on that trade from my account in form of a 'cash correction' this morning.
When I called them and asked for the explanation, they said that market went crazy yday, prices weren't real and its only fair if they cancelled all the transactions(n) (after they have been closed).
They also mentioned that they refunded guys who incurred a loss as well on that trade. So 1) what do you think about this practice? (considering the very nature of the SB business and quote system they provide)
2) have any of you guys who traded at the time got similar experience?
Click to expand...
It is quite clear at the moment that your trade is valid. There has not been an overall correction on the indices coming from exchanges. However, the current investigation on the matter might result in some overall reversal of trades on the indices during the 15 minutes the huge sell off occurred. The MiFID financial directives overrides the T&C, so at the moment it is my opinion that you got a very good case.
 
tar said:
the real market was open and it didnt went below 4800 ( he traded at 4420 ), i was giving him example how exchanges can cancel trades if it were based on an erroneous quote ...
Click to expand...
I agree with you on this point. If he went into the position on a clearly erroneous price quote, it is another matter altogether. But, as I understand it, they reversed the trade on grounds of a huge unprecedented market movement.
 
gle101 said:
I agree with you on this point. If he went into the position on a clearly erroneous price quote, it is another matter altogether. But, as I understand it, they reversed the trade on grounds of a huge unprecedented market movement.
Click to expand...

he traded at 4420 ! , IGindex ftse low was something around 4400 then at the morning they corrected the mistake and made the low 4812 , Ftse futures didnt go below 4800 in the exchange , we r talking here about 10% below the market ! its clear it is an erroneous quote ... if this is not an erroneous quote , when it will be ?! , i saw Igindex platform when the big selloff happened , it was up and spreads the same 2 on the dow , and prices were moving normally ..
 
tar said:
he traded at 4420 ! , IGindex ftse low was something around 4400 then at the morning they corrected the mistake and made the low 4812 , Ftse futures didnt go below 4800 in the exchange , we r talking here about 10% below the market ! its clear it is an erroneous quote ... if this is not an erroneous quote , when it will be ?! , i saw Igindex platform when the big selloff happened , it was up and spreads the same 2 on the dow , and prices were moving normally ..
Click to expand...
I did have a look at Captitalspreads FTSE rolling daily, the low for the day is 4423. The FTSE (off hour) index went down around 10%. So after rereading his initial post I am inclined to still give him my support. Please correct me if you think I am making the wrong conclusion.
 
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