IG Index - getting greedier and greedier...

[Lord Flasheart]

sure,it was at a quiet time but a nasdaq share and it was all over in a second. There are many times when I was trading shares that I saw movements (shakeouts) that were over in seconds. Its one reason I gave up shares/

 

[bennie83]

sure,it was at a quiet time but a nasdaq share and it was all over in a second. There are many times when I was trading shares that I saw movements (shakeouts) that were over in seconds. Its one reason I gave up shares/

Very good point, I don't trade shares either. I stick to futures, much less chance of shake outs etc. This whole shake out/stop loss hunting thing has made me very suspicious of using Spread Betting firms in particular. Were you using a regular broker though?

 

[Lord Flasheart]

yes it was direct access through IB. Most spreadbetting firms do not stop hunt,they generally have no need to.Most even want winning punters on share and forex.

 

[MikeYass]

Yeah I think the theory is that the losers pay the winners, and the spread betting co's hedge their net positions if needed. They don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

 

[Trader333]

This whole shake out/stop loss hunting thing has made me very suspicious of using Spread Betting firms in particular

If they move their quote out of line with the underlying market then they will get Arb'd out of existence. One of my associates made over £70k doing this until the loop was closed a few years ago.


Paul

 

[pit pony]

I have used City Index, Capital Spreads, Cantor Index, CMC and WorldSpreads besides IgIndex. Igindex are the most reliable and the best platform in my opinion. I like everything they offer and it works. I don't get the feeling that it's a big con unlike the others... I just hope it all remains this way as some of the others started out quite good and they did get greedy... running your stops through when the market prices haven't actually breached, re-quoting prices. However, I never used to ever get requotes through Igindex and I have had a couple in fast moving markets of late.
Can anyone comment on Futures Betting?

Thanks!

i have been trading with Futuresbetting for a few years now, excellent platform,did take a bit of getting used to, DMA so no re quotes and instant fills.The trade size is larger than most as the offer exchange products only..£10 a point min bet on Ftse for example, they add there spreads to the actual market spreads, they buy/sell the actual market price and sell/buy to the client including there spread (commision) very clever.

 

[GammaJammer]

The bottom line is, they can only hunt your stop if you leave it with them. So 99% of the time, DON'T.

Simples

 

[montmorencyt2w]

The bottom line is, they can only hunt your stop if you leave it with them. So 99% of the time, DON'T.

Sorry to be dense, but what does this mean?
Do you mean just not to put stops in the obvious/expected places?
Move it before they "find" it?
Or what?

Thanks,

 

[GammaJammer]

Have it in your head. If you need to nip to the toilet then fine, but if you have a close stop, just execute it manually. If you're worried about the speed your finger gets to the mouse not being enough to stop catastrophic losses you're trading too large anyway.

But if you have it in your head you need to be disciplined, and have a predetermined rule. Doesn't matter so much what the rule is - maybe it's that it goes offered at your level there, or prints three times, or whatever. Just try not to let a small loss become a medium sized one just because you think it'll come back eventually. And if you're really nervous, have a disaster stop in the machine, just no-where where it can be triggered.

 

[bennie83]

i have been trading with Futuresbetting for a few years now, excellent platform,did take a bit of getting used to, DMA so no re quotes and instant fills.The trade size is larger than most as the offer exchange products only..£10 a point min bet on Ftse for example, they add there spreads to the actual market spreads, they buy/sell the actual market price and sell/buy to the client including there spread (commision) very clever.

I would like to give futures betting a go. However, you might as well just trade directly onto the underlying market, especially if the min bet is £10 per point?

 

[bennie83]

Have it in your head. If you need to nip to the toilet then fine, but if you have a close stop, just execute it manually. If you're worried about the speed your finger gets to the mouse not being enough to stop catastrophic losses you're trading too large anyway.

But if you have it in your head you need to be disciplined, and have a predetermined rule. Doesn't matter so much what the rule is - maybe it's that it goes offered at your level there, or prints three times, or whatever. Just try not to let a small loss become a medium sized one just because you think it'll come back eventually. And if you're really nervous, have a disaster stop in the machine, just no-where where it can be triggered.

I like where you are coming from on this one

 

[Pippppin]

"Stop hunting" happens in real trading, as some contributors have pointed out.

Ultimately, the biggest problem with spreadbetting is that a third party is lurking, and they can stop you from opening a position when you choose, and they can stop you from closing a position when you choose. That does not happen in real trading with a reputable broker.

It would be uneconomical for spreadbetting companies to hedge the vast majority of bets. Only a small minority are hedged. So for most bets if you win, they lose...in the same way that if you bet on the 3.30 from Haydock Park if you win the bookie loses.

IG Index are bigger than you are. And they will use that differential to their advantage, not yours. Again, and again...

 

[Pippppin]

I was just pointing out how the SB's get thier prices, it's not someone sting there pushing the price around, they take the best bid offer from 5 or more others and because their system recieves so many prices every second it is automated.

TBH i personally feel it wouldn't be cost effective for them to be sitting there all day catching people's stops as that would be quite labour intensive, setting up the system so you're not offering any at the prices you're pushing it down to, then moving the price down 20pts/pips then resetting it, just to nick a couple of £10 per point trades.

Also if they are stop hunting etc, would you not have expected some disgruntled ex-employee to blow the whistle etc, for someone like IG i don't think they'd want the negative publicity that would create, true or not.

I like the idea of an IG Index whistleblower. I would expect IG employees to have confidentiality clauses in their contracts just in case they fancied a spot of whistleblowing....either that, or an expensive court case to fund

 

[candeloro]

@Pippppin

You bookie story is plain wrong. No bookie loses if some team wins or not.
Because first of all they try to make the odds that both other outcomes make money to cover the loss and on the other hand the "hedg" it through the other games where surprisingly the favorite does not win.

If you think about it:
If I have a stop/loss at 1000 being long 10 pound/point and it is around 1004 and they move the price down by hand they give all the shorts with 10 pound/point this 40 pound
This is just pure BS.
Just take the row of quotes from a stock of your choice and compare tick pricing with official time/sales and then tell me again that there is a guy sitting at a desk monitoring my 5000 pound account and hunt my 4 pound/point bets to manipulate the price of all the other bettors as well just to take my 4 pound while trying not to let anybody of the other bettors profit from this exact move.

We have a 10 page discussion about making two stupid trades to get a charting tool for free that would cost much more if you had to buy it.
What do you think would happen if they qoute the DOW incorrect at every 3rd or fifth spike to make money.
Whenever I was stopped out by one point betting on stocks I got the time/sales and had always to see that everything was correctly quoted -- maybe there was a stophunting in the underlying market going on but thats not the fault of the betting company.

And btw to get it right.
Why do you have an account with them if they rip you off?
To use their charts for free?
Thats what makes you angry right?
They are taking away your free realtime charting tool?

 

[CRK_UK]

It makes no sense for SB companies to stop hunt, its unpredictable for them. The market moves to liquidity pools to fill its orders and experienced traders know where the masses put their stops. Move your stop above or below these points to avoid being tagged.You just have to find setups that the masses cant see so your not part of the liquidity pool.

 

[Black Swan]

It makes no sense for SB companies to stop hunt, its unpredictable for them. The market moves to liquidity pools to fill its orders and experienced traders know where the masses put their stops. Move your stop above or below these points to avoid being tagged.You just have to find setups that the masses cant see so your not part of the liquidity pool.

Good points well made.