IG Index "dealing desk" delays...

[mike.]

@ highbury fx, if I placed a trade with a 20 point Target and a 10 point s/l, if the market hit my limit order within seconds of placing the trade, does that make me a scalper ? Thus potentially getting me flagged up. Just curious what defines a scalper

 

[darktone]

The definition for 'scalping' imo is subjective. Heres a line from a SB email.

'The only style of trading that we do not facilitate is scalping. We consider scalping to be 70% of trades or more, being closed within a 2 minute period.'

If i was handling clients and a 'scalper' / any other traders profitability relied on me providing them with unrealistic fills then id take some action, in the form of realistic fills, ie realistic slippage.

The serial loser would be welcome to pinpoint fills, any time any place.

 

[postman]

The definition for 'scalping' imo is subjective. Heres a line from a SB email.

....

I tried telling a Judge I thought the definition of 'Speeding' imo is subjective. He didnt see it my way and I lost my license.

 

[darktone]

I tried telling a Judge I thought the definition of 'Speeding' imo is subjective. He didnt see it my way and I lost my license.

Speed is defined with a number, no? (plus the bits they add for error)

I must have missed the 70% / 2 min thing in your links. Mind you, its just this particular SBs view of what 'scalping' is, which no doubt differs from others / yours.
Therefore, subjective, imo.

 

[Sonicscooter]

Speed is defined with a number, no? (plus the bits they add for error)

I must have missed the 70% / 2 min thing in your links. Mind you, its just this particular SBs view of what 'scalping' is.

As i posted on another thread, i was told by ig that they don't mind what you do on their platform, but would object if it was through the dealing desk.

I don't scalp, but if i did i wouldn't use an SB, for obvious reasons.

 

[Stargunner]

As far as I can see it, this discussion has just turned people arguing about the 'dictionary' meaning of a piece of trading slang.

All I can see, and determine from this discussion is if you trade on latent pricing, you have broken the terms and conditions of your account with the market maker.

If you trade very short term, taking advantage of the fluctuations in the market, even if you trade very frequently, it's not going to get you in trouble. Very few traders can make money on this, so the firm makes money from these very short term traders because 1 in 10 of them will make consistent profit, and the rest will blow out and the market maker can probably afford to take the other side of each trade, unless your size is ridiculous, in which case, you should probably be trading DMA anyway for your own benefit.

Also, it has been very often said by SB firms that they feel clients should be subject to the same market conditions as they are, as far as is reasonably practicable. Although betting is in the word spreadbetting, that's for tax reasons, it is for all intents and purposes, a derivatives market.

 

[highbury fx]

@ highbury fx, if I placed a trade with a 20 point Target and a 10 point s/l, if the market hit my limit order within seconds of placing the trade, does that make me a scalper ? Thus potentially getting me flagged up. Just curious what defines a scalper

from the dealing desks perspective it would depend on the circumstances. if you placed a stop entry order in the few minutes before non farms because you had a hunch the number would be much higher or lower than expected and you attached a limit order and stop loss at the same time, the dealing desk would have no problem with filling your entry (with slippage perhaps) and then triggering your limit order if the momentum continued through your entry.

they would also give you the benefit of the doubt if you were a client they could analyse and the situation that caused this very quick profit was contrary to your usual style.

With each similar episode you have with the dealing desk that benefit of doubt will be quickly eroded and you will likely find yourself on dealer referral.

they would be suspicious if you had previous history of doing this or you were a new client with not much historical data to analyse or you had made the 20 pips by trading a product that was exotic (or minor at least). If any one of those 3 instances were in play then again you could find yourself being put on dealer referral.

As I've said before, if you go hunting for pips through scalping and you get put on dealer referral you will probably be best switching brokers, but the same thing is likely to happen time and again.. dealer referral, move broker, and on and on..

it doesnt give you a clear conclusion but it is another example of how rules can be interpreted differently and the discretion the dealers can show if they think the client is being reasonable.

 

[postman]

As far as I can see it, this discussion has just turned people arguing about the 'dictionary' meaning of a piece of trading slang.

All I can see, and determine from this discussion is if you trade on latent pricing, you have broken the terms and conditions of your account with the market maker.

If you trade very short term, taking advantage of the fluctuations in the market, even if you trade very frequently, it's not going to get you in trouble. ....

I think your right, cant see the woods for the trees.
Scalpers (sorry, very short term traders) are welcome on legitimate spread betting platforms.

 

[Sonicscooter]

Yesterday i emailed IG regarding scalping, they are happy with it on their platform.


No doubt some poster will question what i have stated on this forum several times and i'm sick of repeating myself to numb wits....so if you don't believe me.

EMAIL THEM YOURSELF.........

 

[darktone]

Yesterday i emailed IG regarding scalping, they are happy with it on their platform.


No doubt some poster will question what i have stated on this forum several times and i'm sick of repeating myself to numb wits....so if you don't believe me.

EMAIL THEM YOURSELF.........

Your fighting peoples beliefs. Its a thankless task mate.

 

[Sonicscooter]

Morning......yes very true, it's as a mate said as she got confused, "it's like fighting a dead horse"......

Pointless.......though the saying she messed up as stuck with me....

 

[Hate2Lose]

I've been trading on my IG Index account for the last year, and it's generally been smooth.

Over the last few days, however, I've noticed that trades have been slower. I put on a few trades on my PC and I got a rotating progress bar with a message "Your deal is being handled by our dealing desk..."

Is this something new that IG has started, or is that just what happens to you when you start making money?

Hard to say. I’ve always found IG to be pretty good.

To avoid doubt, you could look at trading DMA. Because you’re going direct to market, it cuts the market maker out. IG offer DMA on CFDs.

Keep us posted.

 

[postman]

lol. you're an idiot.

when a client is A book the spread bet firm acts as an agency broker and executes a hedge trade before accepting the clients trade (in some instances, certainly not all)

you think you know a lot but take a step back and you'll learn a lot more. you ask the right questions but you don't believe anyone who says something that doesn't support your theory. I try and help a poster with a reason why he is having trouble and you suddently start accusing me of participating in a crime.. people like you are why influential people within spreadbet companies stay away from this forum.

You are right in what you say and I concede that in this instance I am an idiot, sorry for being pig headed.

I did some research and I found in IG's t's and c's the statement

"(b) We may execute hedging transactions prior to (i.e. in anticipation of)
or following receipt from you of a request, or information concerning a
contemplated request, to open or close a Bet in order to manage our risk
in relation to Bet(s) you are entering into or contemplating, all of which may
impact on the price you pay or receive in relation to such Bet(s) and any profits
generated by such hedging may be retained by us or an Associated Company
without reference to you;"
http://www.igindex.co.uk/content/files/CustomerAgreement_igi_en_GB.pdf

Now here's my dilemma and where my argument was coming from.

IG are regulated by the FCA.
The FCA state

"Descriptions of behaviour that amount to market abuse ...
(2) front running/pre-positioning - that is, a transaction for a person's own benefit, on the basis of and ahead of an order (including an order relating to a bid)1 which he is to carry out with or for another (in respect of which information concerning the order is inside information), which takes advantage of the anticipated impact of the order on the market or auction clearing1, price;"

http://fshandbook.info/FS/html/FCA/MAR/1/3

So IG 'may be' (allegedly, oh my god please dont sue me:innocent front running peoples bets!

The guy from "The other side of the screen" thread said this did not happen.

Or, I'm an even bigger idiot and I still dont understand something.

 

[Sonicscooter]

Yes but.......you would have to have one hell of a position size, i mean you can do a grand a point on the FTSE on their platform, and i was once told if it get bigger than what's on the platform then it has to go to the trading desk where your post will come to the fore........:?:

 

[highbury fx]

Yes but.......you would have to have one hell of a position size, i mean you can do a grand a point on the FTSE on their platform, and i was once told if it get bigger than what's on the platform then it has to go to the trading desk where your post will come to the fore........:?:

The risk desk will A book clients based not just on their dealing size. They will also A book known winners and clients they have previously had reason to be concerned about.

 

[peakoil]

@ postman - Hello there. Now, someone has to say it, so I will. The part you're repeatedly missing in your posts above, is this: "in respect of which information concerning the order is inside information"

So, to speculate that anyone may be 'front running', there would need to be an element of 'inside information'/'market sensitive' information being misused. A spread bet firm's clients are almost always not privvy to such information, and *even if* a fraction were, at any given point in time, then how is the given firm to know as much - unless they were blatantly told so by a client - i.e., that he is betting because he knows something which is 'market sensitive' - but how likely is that!?

HTH.

BTW, methinks, with respect, that it's time to put that argument to rest.

 

[postman]

@ postman - Hello there. Now, someone has to say it, so I will. The part you're repeatedly missing in your posts above, is this: "in respect of which information concerning the order is inside information"

So, to speculate that anyone may be 'front running', there would need to be an element of 'inside information'/'market sensitive' information being misused. A spread bet firm's clients are almost always not privvy to such information, and *even if* a fraction were, at any given point in time, then how is the given firm to know as much - unless they were blatantly told so by a client - i.e., that he is betting because he knows something which is 'market sensitive' - but how likely is that!?

HTH.

BTW, methinks, with respect, that it's time to put that argument to rest.

No this time its you thats misunderstood.
The important part is "front running/pre-positioning - that is, a transaction for a person's own benefit,"
A company is legally a person. If that person (IG) uses the knowledge of your bet to pre position themselves in the market then they are front running your trade. Which I'm sure they dont. :innocent:

 

[peakoil]

@ postman - you see, I understand a lot more than you've given me credit for. Besides, I trust you have noticed that your whole "front running" argument above, has for whatever reason, won absolutely no other supporters.

Hmmm.

 

[postman]

@ postman - you see, I understand a lot more than you've given me credit for. Besides, I trust you have noticed that your whole "front running" argument above, has for whatever reason, won absolutely no other supporters.

Hmmm.

"your whole ... argument above, has for whatever reason, won absolutely no other supporters"

Thats what they said to Galileo, but the Earth is still round.

Yours is a very poor riposte to a legitimate claim.

 

[Sonicscooter]

It's like talking politics, for the average chap trading where the trade lasts beyond seconds, who isn't trying to screw the SB by being a smart ar5e using latency etc, who has traded consistently with them, none of this matters, if you still think it does, ask my old mate Doomberg and his £750 p/p..............None of this carp effected him, or perhaps the nae sayers are trading larger size......:?: