I Stopped Using Stops

[timsk]

Imo thats not true, heres why.
You dont know where final high and low will end (although, some of us believe they do!! ). But you can find out and you can participate, discover, with limits placed before the event has occurred.
With a stop not to be executed, you need to predict the future.

Hi dt,
You're doing a good job at explaining your approach and I think your reasoning has a lot of merit.

However . . .
I'm not overly convinced by your reply to Jon's very valid point about a runaway trend and - dare I say it - n_t's criticism isn't without foundation. Regarding the former, please can you provide an illustration of how your approach would work when you find yourself being knocked down by a bullet train. Regarding the latter, the sheer quantity of trades for such a small net gain (or loss) worries me because I'd have thought you're going to be killed by the commissions or spread if using a spread betting provider. What's your view on that?
Thanks,
Tim.

 

[darktone]

That is what I mean, not having a SL mean that you know what will happen and if you know you will lose not only financially...

At ah.
The key word is accept.

 

[darktone]

Averaging down in a small size is not the solution , you still need a stop , scale in or not that's fine but you need an exit strategy when in a loss . I have seen many traders wipeout years of profits trading that way . whether your entry is 11500 or the area 11000-11500 it doesn't matter at somepoint the market will move away from your comfort zone .

Averaging down is a trader who want 20 units, buys 20 units.
then when it goes against he buys another 20 units! and so on.

Scaling, is when you want 20 units and work your way into 20 units.

Im showing a form of scaling, that is flexible and always always always seeking value. Nothing special in the non retail world.

 

[tar]

Scale in or not to scale in thats fine still not a solution , we are not saying how to enter i don't care its ok , the question is when/where to exit when in a loss .

 

[Fugazsy]

At ah.
The key word is accept.

clearly, but big balls are needed with the ability to let it go or embrace uncertainty....

 

[darktone]

Hi dt,
You're doing a good job at explaining your approach and I think your reasoning has a lot of merit.

However . . .
I'm not overly convinced by your reply to Jon's very valid point about a runaway trend and - dare I say it - n_t's criticism isn't without foundation. Regarding the former, please can you provide an illustration of how your approach would work when you find yourself being knocked down by a bullet train. Regarding the latter, the sheer quantity of trades for such a small net gain (or loss) worries me because I'd have thought you're going to be killed by the commissions or spread if using a spread betting provider. What's your view on that?
Thanks,
Tim.

You have control over your size Tim and you are trading small relative to your account. You are always seeking value so you dont need to be as big as joe.
As for being 'knocked down', the method is the same, you trade what the market gives you in that moment as best you can. The difference is the nail bitters freeze up and f**k up. Thats psych.

Re commissions,. Your seeking value Tim

buy 50, 40, 30, lose one at 50, buy 30

Youve improved 1 unit by 20 points, its cost 1 pt commission. Provided you dont get positively slipped "i wanted to buy it 30 and you filled me at 28!).. Thankyou very much.

Small gain? would you prefer I show a more profitable trade? Would that make it a more successful trade??

 

[darktone]

Scale in or not thats fine still not a solution , we are not saying how to enter i don't care its ok , the question is when/where to exit when in a loss .

At the best prices you can brother, enter exit, win loss or flat. Its all the same

 

[darktone]

clearly, but big balls are needed with the ability to let it go or embrace uncertainty....

Big balls is the myth.

What is certain about the market? Uncertainty would be a good one no?

You can change your psych and embrace the market for what it is. Or you can change it to something that more palatable for your current mind set.

Which makes more sense?

 

[Fugazsy]

Big balls is the myth.

What is certain about the market? Uncertainty would be a good one no?

You can change your psych and embrace the market for what it is. Or you can change it to something that more palatable for your current mind set.

Which makes more sense?

Big balls is not a myth, is the ability to surrender, to not became prisoner of your own concepts, to quiten your mind, to feel your essence.

Trading is the same, no SL means that you think you know and you became prison of your own ideas and you are automatically unable to see the proper opportunities because you are wired to defend something that only lives into little head.

sorry I am only reading your post....I am trading and it is not an easy day..

 

[arigoldman]

I say use a stop. An acquaintance lost $250,000 when the SNB decision was announced a few months ago. In a few seconds. So, yea. Use stops.

 

[mike.]

I think you need a point in the market where you admit defeat, be it a stop, hedge, scale out, or whatever gets you out of, or, cushions a loosing position. Take Nick Leeson for example, running away and burying your head in a cocktail next to a swimming pool is not a recommended exit strategy.

 

[darktone]

Big balls is not a myth, is the ability to surrender, to not became prisoner of your own concepts, to quiten your mind, to feel your essence.

Trading is the same, no SL means that you think you know and you became prison of your own ideas and you are automatically unable to see the proper opportunities because you are wired to defend something that only lives into little head.

sorry I am only reading your post....I am trading and it is not an easy day..

Lol. Dont think most here wouldnt be familiar with eckhart tolle, your likely speaking in a different language to them.

Id guess people on here would think Jimmy Balodimas as having big balls.
Constantly fading the market with big size (for them, not him) no stops. I bet Jimmy wouldnt see it that way! When folks around him are panicking hes as ease.

No stop to me means ive no idea how far the market will go. In 1 tick Dax could go 0 or 10,000,000. I accept the market for what it is. As I accept any outcome of my actions in the market.

Placing a stop means you think you know something. You think you know where the market shouldnt go.

This stuff to me seems as plain as day to me. Every day is easy

 

[darktone]

I say use a stop. An acquaintance lost $250,000 when the SNB decision was announced a few months ago. In a few seconds. So, yea. Use stops.

Could you get your friend to apply this guys fills to his size please and let us know what the losses would have been?
Cheers
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forex-brokers/206572-my-saxo-bank-story-90-000-loss-after-blink.html

 

[new_trader]

dare I say it - n_t's criticism isn't without foundation.

Tim,

I wouldn't have even bothered if I had known that darktone is still trading at the level of a newbie. Pennies/point...sure, trade without a stop, what have you got to lose?...Your lunch money!

 

[barjon]

...............Placing a stop means you think you know something. You think you know where the market shouldnt go.......................

No it doesn't - it just means that you are controlling your risk and not leaving it to chance.

 

[darktone]

No it doesn't - it just means that you are controlling your risk and not leaving it to chance.

You believe that Jon, then its true, for you. Youll have no problems finding folks to agree with you mate.

 

[darktone]

Tim,

I wouldn't have even bothered if I had known that darktone is still trading at the level of a newbie. Pennies/point...sure, trade without a stop, what have you got to lose?...Your lunch money!

emini right? 25%ish over 5 years wn it? Or was it 8?
Biiiiig dog on the block!

Carry on surviving you шâǹқӗɾ! Who knows, maybe next year youll beat inflation!
70 BUY EM! :smart:

 

[scholfield]

 

[tomorton]

Not setting a stop doesn't mean not having a stop. Not setting a stop means your trading ends when your account is wiped out. This means effectively you have a money-based stop, not TA-based. But that's still a stop and no amount of bluster means otherwise.

 

[barjon]

Not setting a stop doesn't mean not having a stop. Not setting a stop means your trading ends when your account is wiped out. This means effectively you have a money-based stop, not TA-based. But that's still a stop and no amount of bluster means otherwise.

well, if you're going to keep averaging down you might as well keep pumping money into your account as well In which case your stop is all your worldly wealth or until your wife catches you at it