How To Think Correctly

[SOCRATES]

Speaking as a fellow crackpot I suggest that your idea is fundamentally flawed.

You start a psychology thread and five minutes later it has become a TA thread.

What has this do with learning to think correctly?

A waste of time and effort on your part, really.:cheesy:

 

[rols]

looks like one of pictures taken of a sub-atomic nuclear collision test at CERN!

Spot on.

After many years of pains taking research I have discovered a hidden correlation between the movement of the Euro and the interactions between quarks and gluons.

These collisions have helped me understand more about why the FX market works the way it does.

From the energy and position, there is a spectrum of energy distribution, whose slope tells us the temperature. If you know the temperature and density, you know the phase of the market.

FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY, YOU TOO CAN SHARE THE SECRETS OF THE PROTON WITH MY NEW E-BOOK ....THE SUB ATOMIC TRADER.

PRICE; TO THE FIRST 100 SUBSCRIBERS $499 THEREAFTER $999..

ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARDS ACCEPTED.

:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

[trendie]

Spot on.

After many years of pains taking research I have discovered a hidden correlation between the movement of the Euro and the interactions between quarks and gluons.

These collisions have helped me understand more about why the FX market works the way it does.

From the energy and position, there is a spectrum of energy distribution, whose slope tells us the temperature. If you know the temperature and density, you know the phase of the market.

FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY, YOU TOO CAN SHARE THE SECRETS OF THE PROTON WITH MY NEW E-BOOK ....THE SUB ATOMIC TRADER.

PRICE; TO THE FIRST 100 SUBSCRIBERS $499 THEREAFTER $999..

ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARDS ACCEPTED.

:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

I am wary of any quantum-based systems, rols.

These systems tend to trigger buys and sells simultaneously, but only manifest in reality after the sale has been made.

Smells fishy.
Actually, smells of a dead cat.

EDIT: sorry, CYOF, seems like thread is going off-topic. will desist.

 

[CYOF]

I really liked that chart by rols - my daughter drew something like that last night for Halloween :cheesy:

Guys, you are all welcome to post what ever you want - after all it is a free world we live in.

If anyone is serious about posting screenshots to assist with some real learning - then all you have to do is send me a PM and I will set it up.

I do actually wonder at times why traders are slow to join in - is it the fear of been ridiculed or the fear of posting losing trades. Losing trades, as we all know, are a part of trading, so it can;t be that!

Anyway, start sending those requests so that we can all discuss what we should be discussing - how we place trades in our chosen market.

Regards,

 

[Splitlink]

I really liked that chart by rols - my daughter drew something like that last night for Halloween :cheesy:

Guys, you are all welcome to post what ever you want - after all it is a free world we live in.

If anyone is serious about posting screenshots to assist with some real learning - then all you have to do is send me a PM and I will set it up.

I do actually wonder at times why traders are slow to join in - is it the fear of been ridiculed or the fear of posting losing trades. Losing trades, as we all know, are a part of trading, so it can;t be that!

Anyway, start sending those requests so that we can all discuss what we should be discussing - how we place trades in our chosen market.

Regards,

This a problem that you must overcome. Very few people like to post their successful ideas onto a thread,otherwise, everyone would be doing them. Even an idea that needs work on it should not be posted for all to see.

Whether this is unproductive thought, or not, I'm afraid that I am a little selfish in that respect.

Another reason why I have not started a thread, or journal, of my own is that I know my
faults. I would, almost certainly, not stay with it.

Split

 

[CYOF]

This a problem that you must overcome. Very few people like to post their successful ideas onto a thread,otherwise, everyone would be doing them. Even an idea that needs work on it should not be posted for all to see.

Whether this is unproductive thought, or not, I'm afraid that I am a little selfish in that respect.

Another reason why I have not started a thread, or journal, of my own is that I know my
faults. I would, almost certainly, not stay with it.

Split

You should of course do what you think is best for yourself.

I tend to disagree with you. I have no problem showing people what I am doing - and if someone makes a fortune from it I will be delighted.

Getting back to the the psychology - to be fair to rols - and back to the wise words from Charles Haanel - a man will get as much as he gives.

To be selfish and only think of what is in it for me is not the best approach - the laws of abundance do not work that way.

Hopefully someone will join in the posting - but I will not keep it up forever if no one else participates - as there comes a point when you must call a spade a spade.

Good post - and least you are honest about your way of thinking.

Regards,

 

[blackcab]

Hopefully someone will join in the posting - but I will not keep it up forever if no one else participates - as there comes a point when you must call a spade a spade.

I doubt this is what you're looking for but it's a good excuse to post something funny. Note the time period on the chart. These two "trades", if you can call them that, have been my biggest education so far. It's odd to think back this far - it's like looking at an entirely different person.

 

[CYOF]

Hi blackcab,

I think ikt may be better to keep posts here related to psychology - if you like you can post over on the CTM forum - just a thought!

The chart, by the way, is interesting to say the least. No doubt you have improved since then :arrowu: :arrowl: :arrowd:

Regards,

 

[dolton]

Not correct - if you read all the posts here you will see that I mentioned my main interest is posting screenshots in the CTM forum, not here - and I hope other traders will join in.

I also stated that I will also contribute to other threads - including this one.

Anyway, it is the end result that matters in trading, not what topics we traders discuss.

The best way to achieve the end results - is to practice first and then trade with real money when you prove that you can do it. Everything else should take a back seat.


Regards,

I Disagree with this ...............paper trading is not a suitable proxy and does nothing to replicate the necessary reactive hard edge required to deal with coal face trading especially when dealing with tricky spread betting companies. How can you prove you can do it without the experience from real trading conditions.?

No no, no.....best way after learning the mechanics of trading, is to set up a small trading account using money you can afford to lose, and test you reaction in real conditions. for example, see how you react when overnight ghost spikes take out you stops, or the market turns against you rapidly......you don't learn this from paper trading..

 

[CYOF]

I Disagree with this ...............paper trading is not a suitable proxy and does nothing to replicate the necessary reactive hard edge required to deal with coal face trading especially when dealing with tricky spread betting companies. How can you prove you can do it without the experience from real trading conditions.?

No no, no.....best way after learning the mechanics of trading, is to set up a small trading account using money you can afford to lose, and test you reaction in real conditions. for example, see how you react when overnight ghost spikes take out you stops, or the market turns against you rapidly......you don't learn this from paper trading..

Very good post and raises a very important topic.

Q: Why should I trade with real money starting off when this type of trading is new to me.

1) Charting Setups - What are all the charting options available - including advanced charting techniques.
2) Trade Entry - how do I place entry orders correctly using all the available methods?
3) Trade Exit - how do I place exit orders correctly using all the available methods?
4) Risk Control - when should I exit a trade based on my charting setups
5) Progress - how well am I doing - what is my % wins to losses and what is the bottom line result.

You mention trading with live money after the mechanics are learned - but you must first learn the mechanics - how do you do this - the best way may be to papertrade as reading alone will not enable one to learn what is required as listed above.

The main question I ask myself is - If I can't make winning trades with papertrading then how the hell am I going to make winning trades with live money.

The papertrading will also reveal the other points you noted - I will give you two examples of what I experienced with FX not too long ago:

1) Stop running by brokers
2) Re-quotes (up to 1 min waiting) when small volatility enters the markets

These alone proved to me - after trying to daytrade with a demo account - that daytrading FX with retail brokers is not the way to go - DA broker or no FX trading for me.

Now, should I have gone off and opened a mini account with $500 and threw away same - not likely.

I agree that live trading will also introduce additional emotional factors that will hinder your trading - but if you take papertrading serious - meaning that you think the same way as if you were trading with live money - then it can greatly help to preserve your capital - which should be the first priority for every trader.

To get back to the psychology aspect - as this is the psychology section - it is again down to way you think. If you think that papertrading is going to be of no value to you, then your sub conscious will bring those thoughts into reality.

On the other hand, if you think that papertrading is exactly the same as as trading with real money (and this is where the Visualisation techniques can come in handy) then it can be of immense value to you.

It is down to the way YOU think that will yield results for you - not the way others think.

It reminds me of when I started looking at trading in 1999 - one daytrading website went into great detail on how you should be prepared to loose $30K before you become successful at daytrading.

But guess what - they could show you how to do it faster and save you a lot of that $30k that you must be prepared to loose.

To say that papertrading is of no value may be correct for some people, but may not be correct for others - the difference been in the way that people think.

There is no such thing a wright way and a wrong way - it is what works for you is all that matters - I must use this as my slogan :idea:

Regards,

 

[Pippppin]

there is little doubt that paper trading will not replicate real trading. However, if used properly, it is a very useful tool to gain confidence and knowledge of how markets move.

Many new traders lose a £10K account very quickly. If they had shown more intelligence and caution initially they would still be in the game

 

[CYOF]

Yes - I agree 100% - and it keeping with this thread it all depends on the way you think.

It is best to use common sense when approaching any new endeavour - and with trading it makes perfect sense to me that if you can't make successful papertrades then you sure as hell won’t be able to make successful trades with real money.

One step at a time - we all had to learn how to crawl before we learnt how to walk - the crawling ability may be considered as sub conscious actions (as every baby can crawl - barring some disorder) but the walking ability is dependant on first crawling in order to utilise the required muscles. With trading, unfortunately we have to develop our own required sub conscious actions -and papertrading is a very good means for doing this if YOU TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

It is up to the individual trader to decide their own destiny - if one wants to throw away precious capital (which is the main requirement for the ability to trade) then so be it. Personally, I don't like doing this - so I papertrade with live market data first to prove to myself that I can place winning trades - this is the first step - then I need to focus on repeating these actions until it becomes easy (sub conscious talking over).

Here are some recent documents that I came across that may be of interest to some traders. I have not read these yet - just browsed - so I am looking forward to discussing same.

Note: There is no copyright printed on these documents so I am posting same

rols - at last we are back on track :cheesy: Lets try and keep it this way.

Regards,

 

[rols]

rols - at last we are back on track :cheesy: Lets try and keep it this way.

Regards,

I suggest you actually read and assess the material before posting for others to read.

I don't think this is going to help anybody with trading....

Henry Thomas Hamblin's advice on impure thoughts

(1) Although medical works seem to attribute most disease to syphilis
and syphilitic taints, yet we think that one of the principal causes of ill-
health, if not of disease, is impurity in thought, or the indulgence in
sensual thought, in thoughts of amativeness and similar things. The
evils of sensual conduct are bad enough, but we believe that the evil
effects of indulging in sensual or amative thoughts are equally grave
and far reaching. The evil, from a health, as distinct from a purely moral,
point of view, is that such thoughts arouse "desire", and this, in turn,
generates emotional energy. This energy has to be repressed, and this
is probably the cause of much bodily disorder.
Now, to repress or stamp upon all natural desires as something wicked
and unclean is not the best way of dealing with the difficulty This
generally makes matters worse. The only perfect way is to think above
or beyond these things. We must reason with ourselves, pointing out
that there is really nothing in sensuality, that it is the biggest fraud
possible; and that as far as the higher love of the sexes is concerned, if
this cannot be ours, then beyond it all are things more important. Every
young man knows that it is far better to rise early, either to do some
work, or to go for a bathe, than to lie in bed thinking sensual thoughts.

 

[CYOF]

Well - that will only be discovered by each trader for himself - I did say that I did not read the articles - only browsed them - and I did say that they may be of some interest to traders - I did not specifically mention that they were to improve ones trading.

Try and not to be negative all the time rols - after all, it might have been nicer to say something like - nice thoughts CYOF, but this reading material may not be of interest to all traders.

Anyway, no hard feelings, you are entitled to post what ever you like - same as everyone else.

You are emitting negative vibes man. I hope this is not going to turn into one of those slating threads - as I have no time for such time wasting.

As I mentioned in previous posts elsewhere - question everything you read, take what information from it that you can and move on - I expect my posts to be treated that way also.

I am not, nor do I profess to be an expert at anything, but I do like to think that what I do (as in the form of posts) may be of some benefit to a few people at least - the majority will always be the majority of course.

By the way, I prefer to post actual trades - demo or live for discussion - as it may assist greatly with learning how to trade - which is what most traders are trying to do, I think :?:

Regards,

PS: I do not agree with you in relation to the documents been of no use to traders - especially the Purpose,Vision,Goals. I have surveyed the document (SQ3R method as mentioned previously) and I can honestly say that the document looks like it is worth reading in relation to developing ones trading career. The name in itself should imply something to anyone who is really committed to trading fulltime as a business.

It will be interesting to get some opinions from other traders in relation to the content of the documents - I will read the second one and post my thoughts when I get a chance.

 

[rols]

Try and not to be negative all the time rols - after all, it might have been nicer to say something like - nice thoughts CYOF, but this reading material may not be of interest to all traders.

.

I'm sorry if the playground is a bit rough for you but just wait until your real cash is on the line.

Anyway, no offence meant and best of luck with your endeavours.

 

[CYOF]

I'm sorry if the playground is a bit rough for you but just wait until your real cash is on the line.

Anyway, no offence meant and best of luck with your endeavours.

Its not rough at all - just gets a little boring at times and also a little bit of "am I really wasting my time here" feeling.

In relation to real cash on the line - been there, done that, and will be doing it again when the time is right for me - not until then - I have never let, nor will I ever let, any traders opinion influence my decision on when I trade with real money.

No offence taken and none meant in return.

Lets move on.

 

[andycan]

CYOF
crack on mate practice what you are doing then put money on the line there is no other way
you can prepare in every way possible you can listen to NLP and all the psycho babble crap there is floating around in the end it comes from within yourself to achieve
i never studied any psycho stuff before i traded i was a successful businessman learned it the hard way nobody telling me if im doing it right or wrong
dont get me wrong if you prefer being told how to think by someone who tells you its the way to think then great for you im not knocking an approach to better yourself
to be successful above all you have to believe that its achievable you can articulate it as much as you would like and you can put it into a mechanical structure and you can call it the holy grail of success, it means nothing if you haven't got a brain that functions.
a little heart and some courage and you're off to see the wizard!!

good luck

 

[CYOF]

Very true andy,

One of the reasons why I tried to get the CTM forum going - practice first then trade live.

Everything else takes a back seat - but having said that - there are some "gems" of information in the psyco babble writings that may help one to understand ones own limitations.

Been able to identify the gems quickly, IMHO, is only gained through experience - i.e, as you trade and make errors, some of the gems may assist you in confronting the errors correctly and overcome them - typical example is using visualisation techniques to overcome the problem with pulling the trigger when you think you should - but you hesitate and the trade is then gone.

Just my thoughts of course - what works for one may not work for the other.

Regards,

 

[Splitlink]

Good post - and least you are honest about your way of thinking.

Honesty and straightforwardness may not , always, be the best policy but I've discovered that it is better than deceiving someone. I see, in your plan, an involvement that may require more details than one may be prepared to give, if the information is going to be 100% useful. I, simply, do not think that traders with an "edge" are going to be prepared to give it. That is why so many trading books end leaving the reader with unanswered questions.

Split

 

[SOCRATES]

Honesty and straightforwardness may not , always, be the best policy but I've discovered that it is better than deceiving someone. I see, in your plan, an involvement that may require more details than one may be prepared to give, if the information is going to be 100% useful. I, simply, do not think that traders with an "edge" are going to be prepared to give it. That is why so many trading books end leaving the reader with unanswered questions.

Split

Honesty and straightforwardness always pay. They pay to the purveyor of the information, for the intellectual and moral satisfaction that they yield.

But it is very frustrating when the reciever of the information warps it to suit his or her idealised notions, which is the absolute wrong thing to do.

I will give you an example, a minor one, but nevertheless a significant one, ok ?

You put two people into a room in front of screens, sitting side by side for them to observe...

You set up a detailed montage to illustrate a concept discussed in advance..

You explain the sequence of observation of this specific montage.

You explain the sequence of observation required is
N, S, E + W, N, S, E + W, N, S, E, + W, N,S,E +W, N.S.E+ W......and the specific reasons in each case for this order of disciplined observation ....

or....N, S +E...... N, S + E .....

or.....W, E + N W, E +N........

or........... N+S... N+S....N+S....N+S....N+S.....N+S....

And now you tell them you have to leave the room and for them in your absence to observe the sequence as detailed for the reasons explained already in detail and NOT TO TOUCH ANYTHING...

You plan to leave them watching this for it to sink in for say 20 minutes....

But you come back 5 minutes later and the montage has been totally mucked up.

The mouse did not click itself did it ?

So the first time this happens to you you get annoyed...

The next time you get even more annoyed....

And the third time you get furious....

But if this is the "norm" of how people can misdirect themselves to behave NO MATTER WHAT, and I am only offering a glimpse, a minor example, then after a time you get so p####d off you cannot be persuaded to set up any montages to help anyone develop edges under any circumstances or for any reason, u c ?

There you have it.