How much?

[builderman]

Hi trade 2 win, Being a builder at the moment is no fun at all with rates of pay falling through the floor, so I'm now looking at selling up (vans,tools etc) and becoming a trader. How much would I be able to make on say £25000, is £40000 a year realstic? I could get more but would need to take out a loan and borrow from friends and family. Any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[brewski1984]

Nothing.

How much experience at trading do you have?

 

[builderman]

Nothing? I don't think traders work for nothing do they? I worked at a guys mansion and it turns out that he was a trader, so it got me thinking as the building trades on it's knees I would perhaps give trading a go.

I bought quite a few shares at the begining of 2009, which I'm still holding. I don't have any experience of active trading though but I've always been pretty quick on the uptake.

 

[Pazienza]

Don't do it. Stick with something you know and can do.

If you go into this unprepared and inexperienced, with the additional pressure of needing to earn money to live straight away, you've got probably a 99.99% chance of failure.

I would estimate that working very hard at it you would be looking at at least a couple of years before you become even half-way competent at it.

Seriously, don't do it. The building trade will recover at some point.

 

[Pazienza]

Nothing? I don't think traders work for nothing do they? I worked at a guys mansion and it turns out that he was a trader, so it got me thinking as the building trades on it's knees I would perhaps give trading a go.

I bought quite a few shares at the begining of 2009, which I'm still holding. I don't have any experience of active trading though but I've always been pretty quick on the uptake.

Then that was very fortunate timing since you brought them very near the bottom, which was March 2009.

EDIT:

This is not something where you can "give it a go". Give up the idea or you will lose your money.

 

[Pat494]

If you are the complete newbie to trading that you make out then the chances are, you will lose the lot within 1 year no kidding. It takes years to become good at this game.

 

[builderman]

Blimey I'm guessing you guys have been at this some years then? How long is it likely to take? I could continue to work part-time and still survive whilst learning to trade. If it was to take 5 years or so and pay well after that time then it would all be worth it, right.?

Yes Pazienza I decided that the FTSE had gone down low enough for me to dip a toe in, as it turns out it was very close to the bottom. It was pure luck I was working at the guys house I mentioned earlier, that was the only real reason for me to become an investor, fate I guess.

 

[Hotch]

My advice would be to carry on working full time. Buy a book or two on trading, then open up a small account (a grand or less), and trade in the evenings/mornings before you work. After a few years of that, you might have some idea of how much you earn, just remember.

1-It's a lot more stressful and so harder when it's your living.
2-Spending 4x as many hours on it doesn't mean 4x the profit.
3-You can do do everything right and still end the day having lost money.

 

[Pazienza]

Blimey I'm guessing you guys have been at this some years then? How long is it likely to take? I could continue to work part-time and still survive whilst learning to trade. If it was to take 5 years or so and pay well after that time then it would all be worth, right.?

There's no simple answer to this, because everyone is different. It doesn't matter in the slightest, but just to answer your question it took me two years of hard work (by which I mean several hours per day on top of a full time job) to gain a reasonable degree of competence. Another six months before I could realistically do it for a living.

Is it worth it? I made 20% in July, after stripping out the effects of compounding. That is a pretty good month (on average), but nothing exceptional.

These warning are meant in a kindly way, and I hope you take them as such. If you decide to pursue this you will be taking on an enormous challenge and there is virtually nobody that can help you do it.

 

[Mata Nui]

You don't seem to be getting many helpful answers. They are all correct though. It takes a lot of time to become profitable and making a profit is not the same as making a living.

Have you thought about what you want to trade (fx, futures, cfds or pure trading equities)? In a way what you trade will determine how much you need to start and how much you are likely to make from that. You say you already have some shares. If shares is what you want to trade you will need a fair bit more cash. If you pick one of the others you can use leverage to make each £ you put in work harder. Either way you have nowhere near put enough thought into it yet.

 

[bedsit]

Hi trade 2 win, Being a builder at the moment is no fun at all with rates of pay falling through the floor, so I'm now looking at selling up (vans,tools etc) and becoming a trader. How much would I be able to make on say £25000, is £40000 a year realstic? I could get more but would need to take out a loan and borrow from friends and family. Any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks.

Your best bet is to train other people how to trade. There are so many naive people who think they can learn how to trade in no time - so if you are good at selling there is a market niche for you.

If you want to make money from trading - greed is not enough. It's a demanding process in every sense and you may not succeed (more than 97% fail).

 

[robster970]

Hi trade 2 win, Being a builder at the moment is no fun at all with rates of pay falling through the floor, so I'm now looking at selling up (vans,tools etc) and becoming a trader. How much would I be able to make on say £25000, is £40000 a year realstic? I could get more but would need to take out a loan and borrow from friends and family. Any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks.

Flip the scenario around. Say this trader bloke said to you he decided to knock trading on the head and have a go at building. Do you reckon he'd make 40k per annum off starting capital of 25k with no experience in building anything?

Don't sell up is my advice. Practice until you've got the hang of it then scale up gradually. 2-3 years for those that manage it seems to be a norm for a retail trader.

 

[0007]

Hi trade 2 win, Being a builder at the moment is no fun at all with rates of pay falling through the floor, so I'm now looking at selling up (vans,tools etc) and becoming a trader. How much would I be able to make on say £25000, is £40000 a year realstic? I could get more but would need to take out a loan and borrow from friends and family. Any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks.

The very fact that you have asked this question shows that you do not currently possess the necessary expertise or experience to earn a living from trading. The good news is that this can be fixed! Also, you have made a shrewd assessment of the building trade and the rewards from trading if you can crack it. So do not leave your current employment (adopt the Polish mode - "any job that pays some money is a good job") and learn your trading gradually, only ever risking (forget the word "investment" at this stage) what you can afford to lose. Don't borrow to trade - you can do that via leverage when you are accomplished.

All the negative comments on this thread are well meant, good advice, and you can ignore them at your peril. Start on the beginners pages on this forum, trade at first with "pretend" accounts and then risk miniscule amounts after you have achieved some sort of success with paper accounts. Then start the hard work with a real account.

If you have the aptitude you will pick it all up fairly quickly. Read as much as you can and explore everything. Eventually the mists will clear - if you have the aptitude. Trading doesn't seem to be for everybody and my suggestion is to learn whether or not you are suited as cheaply as possible. I bet you didn't learn to be a proficient builder overnight.

Good luck - wish you all the best.

 

[new_trader]

Blimey I'm guessing you guys have been at this some years then? How long is it likely to take? I could continue to work part-time and still survive whilst learning to trade. If it was to take 5 years or so and pay well after that time then it would all be worth it, right.?

Unlike new houses, this profession comes with no guarantees.

 

[builderman]

Good news, I've cancelled the Ferrari. LOL

Thanks again for the replies, I've read each one and will read them again.
At this early stage I'm not sure what items I will trade. I will continue to look at this and other forums and also as many sources of education I can find.

As for the 97% failure rate that sounds to me like I have a huge challenge ahead of me, I love a challenge and have managed to compete at the highest national level in my chosen sport with many highs and gut wrenching lows along the way. I'm hopeful that this will prepare me just a little for what trading will bring however, by the sounds of things it's going to be a long haul.

Thanks again.

 

[bedsit]

Good news, I've cancelled the Ferrari. LOL

Thanks again for the replies, I've read each one and will read them again.
At this early stage I'm not sure what items I will trade. I will continue to look at this and other forums and also as many sources of education I can find.

As for the 97% failure rate that sounds to me like I have a huge challenge ahead of me, I love a challenge and have managed to compete at the highest national level in my chosen sport with many highs and gut wrenching lows along the way. I'm hopeful that this will prepare me just a little for what trading will bring however, by the sounds of things it's going to be a long haul.

Thanks again.

Good luck

 

[builderman]

Thank you besit, I'm sure luck plays a part in trading and wish you the same.

 

[safvan]

Thank you besit, I'm sure luck plays a part in trading and wish you the same.

Start with demo trading. Then do small time account and then move on to the main.

Frankly you would probably make more money by just doing medium term to long term investing. Short term trading is hard and requires full time work. Short term trading cannot be done in the past time.

I have personally lost around $35,000 learning the hard way but I must agree this was TOTALLY due to

1. Lack of knowledge of how markets work.
2. Believing in system sellers to do the work for me for example provide signals. Sometimes the signals would work but I had no idea where to take profit or losses.
3. Not really getting into it with full dedication. I read a few articles on investopedia and thought I was ready!


It takes time to become good at something. Thats the natural process of it. Almost anyone can become profitable trader if time and effort is put into it and given reasonable time say a year or two. The time factor is extremely important. Given enough time even the most financially retarded guy can make money in the markets by following certain rules over and over again.


If you have a family to support then its not recommended. Keep everything you have and start small on the side. You would soon realize what everyone is talking about.

 

[LittleKnown]

Personally I think the luck thing is a complete load of ****, a good entry some good psychology and good money management are three things that spring to mind to me, lucky guys soros, buffet, jerry parker, so and so oh and yeah so and so...............
If it is a case of luck then that is pretty much saying trading is gambling, yeah that old chestnut!

 

[counter_violent]

Might as well trot out the old saying seeing how it's probably on topic for this thread. It take approx 10,000 hrs to become expert at anything, why should trading be any different !

Builderman, keep up with the building and do some small trades when you have free time. Alternatively, trade much longer time horizons, days/ weeks and simply manage positions as and when.