but then went on to lose money after started trading with actual funds? If it went wrong, why? What couldn't you do post trading real money that you were able to on demo? Was it psychology, or your trades stopped working out as well as before, or not having large enough funds when starting out, taking on too much risk, or what?
itspossible
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Hi reds.I never used a demo when i started but i wish i had.i traded shares initially and lost 5k.i then made it back doing spreadbetting(i was a little lucky)I suggest only trading small so if you lose it wont hurt too much.Never have a large fund mate or you will lose it for certain.If you are wrong in your trade just pull out-bad for the ego and pocket book but u will make it back when you are right.
I don't mean large funds but large enough to account for appropriate risk. For example, there are people who open a £500 account and then stake £10 a point, meaning account size too small for stake size. They are simply asking for trouble.
Anyway, how have you done from trading? You say you've made the money back, but how have you done since then?
ffsear
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I went from demo to real money with no problems. The issue i has was once i switched to real money, after a few months i switched my style and thought i could scalp the DAX rather the swing trade Forex. A style that I had not demo'd or tried before. I thought if i can make money in one market, on one timeframe, then i could do it on any market in any time frame. WRONG!!!!
It was greed really. Why risk 2% using a 50 point stop on forex, when i can do the same on the dax off a small time frame and and use much smaller stops and hence make quick, larger profits. Sounds great in theory, never worked in reality.
3 x 2% losses in 1 week on Forex = no emotional problem. 3 x 2% losses in 20 mins on the dax was a real head f\/ck for me.
EnlightenedJoe
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Demo cash is worthless. Real cash comes from someone's pocket. That someone is invariably a big bank. It is their business to take money from you and you don't take money from them. It has nothing to do with psychology or anything you do or don't do.
You can no more make money from the markets by drawing a chart than you can draw a chart and use it to buy bargains from shops that you can then sell for a profit. The shop prices its goods to make a profit. It doesn't care what your chart says, and it's going to make a profit. If you buy from them, you are sure to give them a profit. No amount of "good" psychology on your part will change that profit equation.
Why don't you become a trainer ? Beginners all over will pay you real money for some lessons. Since they don't know anything, you can tell them anything and will be able to get away with it. Their greed will ensure it.
You can no more make money from the markets by drawing a chart than you can draw a chart and use it to buy bargains from shops that you can then sell for a profit. The shop prices its goods to make a profit. It doesn't care what your chart says, and it's going to make a profit. If you buy from them, you are sure to give them a profit. No amount of "good" psychology on your part will change that profit equation.
Why don't you become a trainer ? Beginners all over will pay you real money for some lessons. Since they don't know anything, you can tell them anything and will be able to get away with it. Their greed will ensure it.
On my demo account I made 20 000 € into 58 000 € in 3 months. When I started trading for real money end september 2014 I initially made 1000 € (with trading account of 9000 €) but then started losing. In the end I lost 5k of which I already recovered 1200.
Why did I do much worse? Two things in my opinion. Probably some beginners luck in those 3 months and also the market was trending up during those months, then end september/begin october a market correction came and I never experienced such a market before causing me to lose a lot of money with my strategy back then. I was also only going long which did not help.
Anyway, those were all learning experiences because obviously I took WAAAAAAYYY too much risk and I should be glad I didn't get wiped out completely. I only started trading somewhat properly after I joined this forum
Why did I do much worse? Two things in my opinion. Probably some beginners luck in those 3 months and also the market was trending up during those months, then end september/begin october a market correction came and I never experienced such a market before causing me to lose a lot of money with my strategy back then. I was also only going long which did not help.
Anyway, those were all learning experiences because obviously I took WAAAAAAYYY too much risk and I should be glad I didn't get wiped out completely. I only started trading somewhat properly after I joined this forum
timsk
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. . . so what accounts for the trader described in the OP making a profit while demo trading but making a loss when switching to a live account? By the same token, what accounts for ffsear doing well when swing traded forex and then doing badly when he switched to day trading the Dax? The banks didn't know or care about each trader's change in circumstance - they didn't change what they did - so something else must account for the decline in performance?
Tim.
itspossible
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Reds my trading days are now in the past after trading through the high tech bubble of 2000.I had a few methods re spreadbetting that worked now and then and i was strict with stops.I had 20k in my account at one point but had a few hard knocks and decided to pay off some of the mortgage.I realised that the market was just a glorified casino.Sure if you have the patience of a saint and go in small you should make money providing you have the right method but who is that strict.I still look at the financial markets and have a demo that i test now and again.I find its best to be cold turkey but each to there own.If you decide to trade open a journal here and others will help you on your way.
EnlightenedJoe
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In demo trading the OP is not taking money from the bank. In real trading, the OP will be trying to take money from the bank. The bank would say: how about no ? We are bank and we do the taking. That accounts for the difference, in one situation there is no one to say no, in the other there is.
You can prove me wrong however. You or the OP can go take some money from the bank and show me how it's done.
I don't really understand why ffsear would do badly when he was doing so well. Does it really matter though, can he not go back to do well again since he knows how ? It's a real puzzle when someone who uses the market like an ATM would wake up one day and think: this ATM is useless, let me go do something else instead.
Enlightened, I don't know what you're really going on about. I have a friend who makes an average around 800 pips a month trading forex. He has been doing well for over a year now. I don't really ever see him making net minus pips at the end of a month. And yes, he is good with money management so if he is positive pips at the end of the month then he is making money (but I do realise one can be positive pips and still lose money). He simply trades price action. There's no secret to what he does, just that he is good at what he does.
Reds my trading days are now in the past after trading through the high tech bubble of 2000.I had a few methods re spreadbetting that worked now and then and i was strict with stops.I had 20k in my account at one point but had a few hard knocks and decided to pay off some of the mortgage.I realised that the market was just a glorified casino.Sure if you have the patience of a saint and go in small you should make money providing you have the right method but who is that strict.I still look at the financial markets and have a demo that i test now and again.I find its best to be cold turkey but each to there own.If you decide to trade open a journal here and others will help you on your way.
Agreed. You need to be highly disciplined at all times to make it in this game. This is why there are so many failures. People are simply not disciplined enough. People generally also have awful money management in place because they want to become rich overnight. Even if they start out disciplined many will after a while allow greed to get the better of them. One significant research (forget which one) showed many had more wins than losses in forex but their losses were bigger than the wins. People don't have the right mindset to stay in trades because when they see a profit they want to bank it.
many factors affect live trading, first of all there is a slight difference between live and demo, demo is for practice live is different the pressure from losing real money can come to play here, another thing, there is a slight difference in execution time, given that on live especially during news expect heavy volumes of trades all executed at the same time which might lead to slight slippage, in some broker the slippage can be bad (they abuse it)
EnlightenedJoe
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Yes, nearly everyone has a friend who does this or does that. But everyone with friends like that can't do this or can't do that. On balance things cancel out. So nobody is doing anything.
I started trading with real money, and have ever since. But I would say that 'Demo' accounts make life simpler when testing new strategies or trading new products....(read options in my case).
When training a 'newbie' letting them try out all the 'bells and whistles'...and .....allowing them to 'ask the right questions'. But the Newbie 'needs' to move to Real money very quickly in my experience.
When training a 'newbie' letting them try out all the 'bells and whistles'...and .....allowing them to 'ask the right questions'. But the Newbie 'needs' to move to Real money very quickly in my experience.
itspossible, I agree that one should not be staking big; however, I also believe account size is relevant in what is considered big or small. I believe you should not be risking more than 2% on any one trade, preferably 1%, and if the account size grows to substantial amount then maybe even decrease it to between 0.5% and 1%. If someone has £1000 account and another a £10000 account, then the monetary value of their risk based on 2% will be a lot different. I also believe you can also show a bit of flexibility and not simply risk a static 1% or 2% every trade. The extremely high probability trades maybe you can be slightly more aggressive with and go in at slightly higher end of the range while the ones you deem not as strong (although, of course, they should all be strong to begin with) could be lower end. Or you can maybe scale in at 1% at first and if you see a resistance or support taken out then perhaps pyramid another 1%. Got to say though, not a fan of pyramiding because I believe the original price you got in at should be the best price, so entering another lot at a higher price increases risk because the price would have already moved substantially as you'd had predicted. But if it can be done safely by moving the overall stop up then it might be worth entertaining in a few cases.
ffsear
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Agreed, wish i had spent less time on demo and more time understanding what it feels like to lose real money, and how that effects my attitude. There is no substitute.
Got to agree there is no real pressure on demo when it comes to money management. The only pressure on demo comes from the fact that you want your trades to win so your analysis/system is vindicated. But you can let your profits hit their target without much pressure knowing that real money isn't on the line. Would you behave the same on a real account? I suppose this is where extreme discipline comes in.
Yes demo account is free place to backtesting any new strategy and system trading, in addition for trader which they prefer trade with ea, they need backtesting with demo account before implemented on real accouint because if they reckless and use ea without backtesting hence will worried if only causing maregin call account at short time
darktone
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Apart from slight differences in execution theres little physical difference.
The change comes when you put your dosh on the line along with whatever psychological ' ' you hold dear.
Im a winner
Im smart
Im a loser
Im an idiot
Im enlightened
blah blah blah....
When you can trade demo as freely as live youve a level of emotional intelligence.
The change comes when you put your dosh on the line along with whatever psychological ' ' you hold dear.
Im a winner
Im smart
Im a loser
Im an idiot
Im enlightened
blah blah blah....
When you can trade demo as freely as live youve a level of emotional intelligence.
timsk
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dt,
Shouldn't this read: 'When you can trade live as freely as demo you've a level of emotional intelligence'?
Tim.
