Help!! Career advice needed.

[mace_d_ace2]

Calling all traders!!!! Please help!!!

My names Marc, i left Orpington college in 2004 after gaining a GNVQ ICT Pass Grade. Prior to that i went to an awful school and had an awful eduction. I acheived GCSE Grade "D" in Maths, English and "C" grade in Science. Not the stuff of legends you may say. (anyone know the sidcup / orpington area? Then you will know what i mean).

Oneday i looked at the Financial index(s) on bloomberg on SKY and became hooked on the markets, i have no idea why and still don't, i just find them interesting. I thought to myself, i want to be a TRADER. By now, time had past and i had some pretty awful jobs, selling land, working for a dodgy small cap AIM stock brokerage and doing recruitment, did i mention a supermarket also? I have been going nowhere . . . . fast!!!

I am now 20yo, 21 in August and all i have is an FSA Regualtion Exam PASS grade to my name which has now expired as i am no longer involved in the financial industry. The thing is i was born with this desire, the desire to make money, be successful and change the norm of a small time guy that made it big. The one thing that is holding me back is . . . . Brains! I have tried so many avenues to get into an IB you would not belive but it is all about degree(s) and various relevant work experience. I need advice or where to go, what to try, what to study for and how to gain contacts. I need to make big bucks!! or my life will not be worth living. The thought of speding my life on 30k somwhere in an office driving a Vauxhall Corsa and working until i am 70 just does not bare thinking about as that is not living, it is existing. Any ideas people?? This is a genuine straight from the heart post. Please add me on [email protected] (msn address) if you feel you can offer me any advice.

Thanks guys.

 

[TWI]

Might as well kill yourself now.

 

[TWI]

Paul Mason a relation? ask him, he is big in Euribor.
Suggest you get the bog standard job and learn all you can about the markets with every spare moment you have. If you go to an IB with your background these days it will be such a boring job you will not learn anything about trading. In a lot of trading jobs you will not learn anything about making money. Best bet for you is definitely to go it alone but keep on trying for the lucky break. I do not want to knock your hopes for that but there are a lot of people with top degrees and higher from top universities who are as keen as you and they will get the job, not because they might prove better at it, but because the employer will consider their qualifications proof of a certain level of intellect that may make them a better bet. Some of the best traders I know left school at 16 with no qualifications at all but they came through the floor trader route which is not as easilly available now. A lot of them trade their own cash and do extremely well.
Good luck.

 

[mace_d_ace2]

Well this is what im saying, if i went through the back office route would i have a small chance of picking up what is needed to be a sucessfull trader? Is an IB the only place to earn such good money? Getting into an IB is very difficult, especially with my qualifications, hence the reason why i asked what exams i should be taking to better myself. More adive welcome please.

 

[timsk]

Calling all traders!!!! Please help!!!
. . . if you feel you can offer me any advice.
Thanks guys.

Hi Marc,
Welcome to T2W!
As I'm old enough to be your dad, I can offer you plenty of advice. However, just as you may not want advice from your (biological) father, you probably won't want it from me either. But you asked for it, so here it is . . .
My advice is this: you're barking up the wrong tree. It's far more important to find something in life that:
A) you enjoy doing, and . . .
B) you are suited to and can do well . . .
Both of these are MUCH more important than making money. Hugely, massively more so, in fact. Money is at best, a very poor third after A) and B). So, what do you do? Focus on those things in your life that put a smile on yor face and a spring in your step. By all means continue to take an interest in the market, visit T2W and read books about it etc. But if your only interest in the market is a means to make a few quid, I suspect you're always going to find it tough, especially as you admit - very honestly, you ain't the sharpest tool in the box. Not that that matters greatly. Much like you, I'm a 'Desmond' on the qualification front (a 2:2 in Fine Art), but I'm not in this game solely for the money. Lastly, I apologise if this all sounds rather pompous but, hey, it's what I think - and good luck with whatever you decide to do. Whatever 'it' is, I hope it offers plenty of A) and B), above.
Tim.

 

[welco11]

Go into an inter dealer brokers an education in there is the last thing you want.Just make sure you can drink alot and entertain.

 

[Atilla]

Hi Marc,
Welcome to T2W!
As I'm old enough to be your dad, I can offer you plenty of advice. However, just as you may not want advice from your (biological) father, you probably won't want it from me either. But you asked for it, so here it is . . .
My advice is this: you're barking up the wrong tree. It's far more important to find something in life that:
A) you enjoy doing, and . . .
B) you are suited to and can do well . . .
Both of these are MUCH more important than making money. Hugely, massively more so, in fact. Money is at best, a very poor third after A) and B). So, what do you do? Focus on those things in your life that put a smile on yor face and a spring in your step. By all means continue to take an interest in the market, visit T2W and read books about it etc. But if your only interest in the market is a means to make a few quid, I suspect you're always going to find it tough, especially as you admit - very honestly, you ain't the sharpest tool in the box. Not that that matters greatly. Much like you, I'm a 'Desmond' on the qualification front (a 2:2 in Fine Art), but I'm not in this game solely for the money. Lastly, I apologise if this all sounds rather pompous but, hey, it's what I think - and good luck with whatever you decide to do. Whatever 'it' is, I hope it offers plenty of A) and B), above.
Tim.

This advice is like giving bread and hope to a man out in the desert dying of thirst.

It is sound good advice but not one that will go home and does not answer the question.

I would say you can do and be ANY THING YOU WANT TO BE. You have a dream you chase it until your last breath. You may not get there but you can enjoy the trying bit.

I would say start trading shares and reading and participating on this excellent web site. You get a nice round of views and characters.

Risk your own money than you'll learn better and faster.

If you have it you'll make money. If you don't well better to have tried and lost than not to have tried at all and all that jazz.

I've worked in several trading / broking environments supporting IT Systems. What you get on websites now is so rich, and absolutely free you don't need bloomberg or reuters feeds. All you need is a ADSL line and a decent computer £600 should fix you up for starters.

Be prepared to lose money and only risk money you can afford to lose without messing up your life.

Bon voyague!

 

[Avatar]

Whatever you do, always have a backup plan...

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

A good education is your only shot. Without it your odds are reduced by a factor of n where n is a VERY large number. It is hard enough for kids with a good education. Without it...

 

[welco11]

Don't give up believe me it can be done without a good eduaction.As much as people say it's what you know,believe me it's who you know that counts.I have worked in banking industry for 10 years I have traded FX for an IB,futures at a prop firm and am now on a dealing desk at an investment company.I have GCSE's and a few rubbish A levels but I am good at my job.I know someone who made it from the post room to the trading desk of a major IB,have friends earning well into 6 figures at trading arcades and also know people at ineterdealer brokers earning well into 6 figures.If you get into the back,middle office get to know the traders then do your exams FSA CFA whatever it takes to prove you have a brain.If you can prove this are determined and they like you,you will move forward.

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

Welco11 may know such people but they are the exception to the rule which the ill educated love to shout about. They are the few percent and are declining in number as finance becomes increasingly competitive and intelligent.

Arcades are a different story. They will give almost anyone a shot.

Get a decent education and your odds go through the roof (quantification of odds is the game!)

 

[pssonice]

r u looking for a job or r u searching for the big money ?

u cant get both

 

[welco11]

NotQuiteRandom I agree with you that a good education obviously gives you a much better chance however this guy has no education and I am just telling him not to give up on his dream it is possible.Traders ethier have it or they don't.Arcades may be looked down on but I guarantee you those that are successful in an arcade are the best traders.If you took the whole of goldmans trading floor put them in an arcade for a year you would be lucky at the end to have a handful of profitable traders but I would say any profitable arcade trader could do the job at goldmans.Why because traing is 90% phsycological

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

Welco11. Goldman’s traders are phenomenal quantitative analysts managing vast books of exotic risk with PhD level complexity in their pricing and systems. They are not punting on directional bets in linear assets.

Dreaming is all very well but if you want to do well in finance, to a 99% probability, you must be well educated. That probability rises every year.

I don't understand why people dream, the only course of action to get from point A to point B where point B is the desired goal is to maximise your odds. Education is the medium to do this in non-arcade (employed) finance.

 

[welco11]

I'm not disputing that a good education is the best chance all I'm saying is for this kid not to give up on a career in the city and go and get a job in a supermarket.Everyone needs hope or a dream.Unfortunatley some people do not have the same opportunities growing up as others but does this mean because they did not do 3 or 4 year course at university it should dictate what they do for the next 50 years of there working life.What I was saying before is that any highly intelligent person could eventually learn to be a quant analyst and build models all it comes down to is maths and theory.However there is no gurantee a highly intelligent person could become a good trader in the purest sense (punting) as you say, because this is something you can ethier do or can't.Most of the best arcade traders I know are not very intelligent and do not have a degree but maybe this is why they are such good traders they have no fear,have the right physcological make up and do not think to much.The same with brokers and market makers who are very sociable outgoing people and good at winning new business and building relationships with clients.Would a PHD qualified professor be able to do this aswell maybe but maybe not.I believe just as some areas of the city are run by the highly intelligent there will always be a place for the not so intelligent because they are also better at some things.

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

I am afraid that we disagree to a phenomenal extent.

You:

"Unfortunately some people do not have the same opportunities growing up as others"

Me:

This is not relevant in a semi-socialist country like the UK. Value will out when good education is so cheap. People in the UK complain about tuition fees etc but compared to the rest of the world they are very low. Look at the US - people there make there way from the gutter to the top despite the 6 figure cost of a degree from a top uni. In the UK it is many many times easier. I did not grow up with any money or other advantage but was on 6 figures by the age of 24. One of my closest friends grew up in a care home and is a senior trader at a major IB.

A person's academic ability bears a VERY strong correlation with their future success. Do not try to bring the ‘poor kid’ act into it. It is nonsense.

You:

because they did not do 3 or 4 year course at university it should dictate what they do for the next 50 years of there working life

Me:

I think it should. Those who work hard and sacrifice so much at that difficult stage of life are the troopers - the ones who get a strong degree from a good uni are those who (on average) succeed. This is perfectly just. To suggest otherwise is of the school of thought that one is not responsible for one's own actions. If you fail, it is your own fault. This is how a dynamic economy works.

You:

maybe this is why they are such good traders they have no fear, have the right physcological make up and do not think to much

Me:

Don't think too (note, two ‘o’s) much? Don't let that guy near my money!

You:

The same with brokers and market makers who are very sociable outgoing people and good at winning new business and building relationships with clients

Me:

Do not confuse brokers and market makers. Brokers who build relationships are sales people. They have their place and are necessary but they are just fancy order clerks - not traders.

You:

.Would a PHD qualified professor be able to do this aswell maybe but maybe not.I believe just as some areas of the city are run by the highly intelligent there will always be a place for the not so intelligent because they are also better at some things.

Me:

You are right. We should keep stupid people around. They are good for some things. I am glad that my toilet is clean, my food is cooked and my shirts are pressed.

I wouldn't let them manage my money though.

Face it - the world is changing at an increasing rate and the barrow boys of the past went out with Nick Leason. There are a few left but they are a dying breed outside of bucket shops and arcades.

I understand that you are not well educated - your grammar indicates this clearly enough - but I do not think that you should encourage the kid to dream. Dreaming is what you do when you are asleep. Not everyone is meant to succeed, by definition.

 

[pssonice]

"You are right. We should keep stupid people around."

FED chief AG :

"for further growth US economy needs at least 5% of jobless people"

 

[welco11]

You
A person's academic ability bears a VERY strong correlation with their future success. Do not try to bring the ‘poor kid’ act into it. It is nonsense.

Me
So according to you someone who goes to a school in Hackney has the same opportunities as someone at Eton.Well done to your friend at the care home, but he is an exception to the rule.I'm afraid in many cases, money goes to money and the gap between the rich and poor in the UK is growing all the time.Many of the most successful and influential people in the country are not academic.Alan Sugar,Richard Branson and Phillip Green to name but a few.Sorry I forgot academic people have no common sense.I did not go to university because unfortunatley I had to bring up my younger brother at the time.Maybe I should have just thrown him in the gutter.Well done I was on six figures by age 22.

You

I think it should. Those who work hard and sacrifice so much at that difficult stage of life are the troopers - the ones who get a strong degree from a good uni are those who (on average) succeed. This is perfectly just.

Me

I agree those that make the sacrifice should do well.But there is no reason why those that decide that they too would like to be successful after the age 22 should also have a chance if they are willing to work hard.Or maybe they should just give up after all they only have a potential 60 or 70 years of life left.

You

Don't think too (note, two ‘o’s) much? Don't let that guy near my money!

Me

Sorry but I have a very good job and am busy so I am not paying attention to my grammar.Didn't realise good grammar makes you a better trader I'll have to remember to invest my money with you, a good speller is the first thing I look for in a money manager.

You

Do not confuse brokers and market makers. Brokers who build relationships are sales people. They have their place and are necessary but they are just fancy order clerks - not traders.

ME

I know the difference.Inter dealer brokers(mentioned in an earlier post) are not sales people they act as middlemen between banks and provide liquidity to the market.Yes brokers are necessary and they are not traders but I would rather be a fansy order clerk earning a good six figures,taking out clients etc than work as a dustman.The kid has a chance to be a broker.

You

You are right. We should keep stupid people around. They are good for some things. I am glad that my toilet is clean, my food is cooked and my shirts are pressed.

I wouldn't let them manage my money though.


Me

Not all people that are not academic,that are cleaners, cooks etc are stupid.Some people do not want success and do not measure success by wealth but I suppose for an arrogant person like you this is too much to comprehend.An experiment done recently showed kids pulling names from hats were better stock pickers than a lot of fund managers.

You

I understand that you are not well educated - your grammar indicates this clearly enough - but I do not think that you should encourage the kid to dream. Dreaming is what you do when you are asleep. .

My grammar is fine thanks.Like I said I have to type quickly and cannot proof read.Why do you need good grammar anyway you have spell check.You never dreams you must be such an interesting person.

Not everyone is meant to succeed, by definition

This depends.Do you measure success by wealth.

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

I do not think that I need to respond to this in any detail.

It has got too long and you have proven your stupidity with a disregard for good grammar, education and a claim not to equate money with success.

The reason that the money gap is growing is that the standard of living at the bottom has risen so much that, on average, the poor are getting lazier.

It is never too late to get a good education and it is the most certain route to success.

I see no merit in continuing to correspond with an "it's not my fault it was circumstances" socialist. You may therefore have the last word. I will not respond.

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

"Not everyone is meant to succeed, by definition"

This depends.Do you measure success by wealth.

The originator of this thread clearly does. Whether that's correct or not is a moot point.