Have You Ever Paid?

[oilfxpro]

Hi

If u go to forex TSD Hackers will write u an expert advisor for $50 and steal your system

Programing skils for sale. - Page 32 - Forex Trading

Go read the thread

OILFXPRO

 

[oilfxpro]

The truth of the matter is there are no hack programmers, there are only **** poor analysts, designers and managers.

El Cid claims to be developing a serious application (although god knows how you could on a budget of 5K). He imposes no coding standards on suppliers, and yet he's amazed when he gets garbage back. He has no formal test plan, other than stick it on an account and see what happens, and he's shocked when he ends up with a train wreck.

Just as dogs can smell fear, programmers can see a mug punter, and believe me, they'll exploit it for all its worth, its like taking candy from a baby.

Ive written far too much code to be seduced by elegant solutions, I want robust and maintainable code rather than elegance. With the exception of certain classes of application (games being a good example), if you want an algorithm to run at double the speed throw the money at additional or better hardware, no programming resources.

Zupcon

U make all these claims about programming hiding in internet anonymity.Has a proper programmer ever seen your coding work?

I bet they would laugh

OILFXPRO

 

[the blades]

Tighter than me?
You must be tighter than a duck's ass-- and that's watertight! 🙂

I heard you once slipped on a piece of coal and got it stuck up your jacksy. When they prized it out it was a huge diamond.

Any truth?

UTB

 

[temptrader]

oilfxpro,

Unfortunately Mike (Zupcon) is right. I should know, I use to be a professional programmer myself (God it was borrrrrring . . . . ). There are certain programmers who shouldn't be programming because they are just p*ss poor, but in the IT industry if you can get the job done you can get the job done. There are certain programmers I know who, if they did the job of being a doctor as they do as programmers, would definitely be struck off immediately.

There is no governing body, formal requirements when it comes to code quality and maintainability (unless we are talking about mission critical systems, in which case it has to go through formal verification procedures/tests, but this only applies to the absolute minority of projects). I was working in my job for a long time and I was young and naive at the time when I thought you got given a rise in line with your skill set. Not usually the case at all. I sometimes got a pay rise when the systems I wrote went down and the managers realised I was the only one who could fix it. Call me cynical, but that's how it went.

 

[oilfxpro]

The truth of the matter is there are no hack programmers, there are only **** poor analysts, designers and managers.

There are xxxx coders out there working for $12.50 per hour in the western hemisphere

El Cid claims to be developing a serious application (although god knows how you could on a budget of 5K). He imposes no coding standards on suppliers, and yet he's amazed when he gets garbage back. He has no formal test plan, other than stick it on an account and see what happens, and he's shocked when he ends up with a train wreck.

Thats garbage , cause right now I am forward testing before putting tem on real account.I use a professional service nowadays somebody who does the testing of his own codes

Just as dogs can smell fear, programmers can see a mug punter, and believe me, they'll exploit it for all its worth, its like taking candy from a baby.
not if u use an honest person .I do not refer to your mates at TSD

Ive written far too much code to be seduced by elegant solutions, I want robust and maintainable code rather than elegance. With the exception of certain classes of application (games being a good example), if you want an algorithm to run at double the speed throw the money at additional or better hardware, no programming resources.

my programmers work is very robust on testing

oilfxpro

 

[temptrader]

oilfxpro,

One of the things I hate about my previous job was that we sometimes charged clients over £1000 a day for my time, and I would slow myself down during the day wasting my time (most surfing the internet and stuff), because the solution was actually trivial, but it was not in our interests to tell the client that.

 

[oilfxpro]

oilfxpro,

One of the things I hate about my previous job was that we sometimes charged clients over £1000 a day for my time, and I would slow myself down during the day wasting my time (most surfing the internet and stuff), because the solution was actually trivial, but it was not in our interests to tell the client that.

Temptrader

I used to work for a service company where clients were billed 4 times hourly rate of employee .

My programmer quotes me a price x euros per hour and tells me the time he will charge y hours , x*y =z is agreed as price .If programmer takes y *2 it is his loss

OILFXPRO

 

[temptrader]

Temptrader

I used to work for a service company where clients were billed 4 times hourly rate of employee .

My programmer quotes me a price x euros per hour and tells me the time he will charge y hours , x*y =z is agreed as price .If programmer takes y *2 it is his loss

OILFXPRO

My point is that if you don't understand the work yourself you don't have a clue whether the work is going to take 2 weeks - or 2 minutes.😉

Unless the job at hand is going to be way too difficult and tedious (i.e. windows programming the hard way) or the API SDK is not available, I will always want to do it myself to make sure that I know what's going on.

 

[PKFFW]

My point is that if you don't understand the work yourself you don't have a clue whether the work is going to take 2 weeks - or 2 minutes.;

This reminds me of a story I heard....

Big production plant went down and wouldn't start up again so the owner calls in the engineer to fix it.

Engineer looks around a bit, tests a couple of things and then pulls out his hammer and taps gently on some little bit of machinary.

Engineer then gives owner his bill for services rendered................$5000

"Five Thousand dollars!!!" Cries the owner. "That's outrageous! You weere only here 5 minutes. I want an itemised account. There's no way you can justify charging that amount"

So the engineer does up an itemised account and hands it to the owner.......

Tapping with hammer: $1
Knowing where to tap: $4999

🙂

Sometimes it's worth paying the professional who knows where to tap. Of course if one wants to go around tapping all over the machine for hours on end that is their choice too.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[new_trader]

Sometimes it's worth paying the professional who knows where to tap. Of course if one wants to go around tapping all over the machine for hours on end that is their choice

Maybe. Professionals aren't born knowing where to tap. They usually start out tapping all over the place too.

 

[temptrader]

in the world of windows programming it can be a whole lot worse:

A professional programmer who was contracting for a company realised he had to do some kind of cell/grid implementation for the program (like MS excel). He wrote it from scratch from the basic windows SDK (not MFC or the bigger libraries mind), and it took him 8 weeks!!! At the end of the 8 weeks he realised that a "control" library was there all the time to do something like this, which meant he could of had the implementation up in an hour or so. No doubt the people paying him to do this were not happy about it, but it was something that they accepted as part and parcel of business life.

George Harrison had it even worse, he went through multiple large prototypes before realising that making a pocket watch was the way to go.

 

[new_trader]

in the world of windows programming it can be a whole lot worse:

A professional programmer who was contracting for a company realised he had to do some kind of cell/grid implementation for the program (like MS excel). He wrote it from scratch from the basic windows SDK (not MFC or the bigger libraries mind), and it took him 8 weeks!!! At the end of the 8 weeks he realised that a "control" library was there all the time to do something like this, which meant he could of had the implementation up in an hour or so. No doubt the people paying him to do this were not happy about it, but it was something that they accepted as part and parcel of business life.

George Harrison had it even worse, he went through multiple large prototypes before realising that making a pocket watch was the way to go.

John Harrison.

 

[temptrader]

John Harrison.

Yes, you are right, I always forget his first name.:cheesy:

 

[PKFFW]

Maybe. Professionals aren't born knowing where to tap. They usually start out tapping all over the place too.

Absolutely they are not.

The point being that one must weigh up if it is worth paying the professional who has the expertise in the matter or if one wishes to attempt to do the job oneself.

Both are valid choices depending on the situation and the individual.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[Directional]

I paid for quite a few things I thought would help my trading... my first venture into paid-for knowledge was the FTS options course in Porlock 😱. I later went on a lot of free seminars, including IG index and later LIFFE, and I've paid for umpteen books and courses, some of which were priceless, others definately overpriced. I've paid to learn and do "simulated" trading in a pit on the floor of the CBOT. I've bought indicators and I've coded my own indicators and stratgies. I've travelled to Munich, Zurich and Singapore to meet and learn from traders who had knowedge I wanted to gain.

I've paid many thousands of pounds over the last fifteen years for information, possibly as much as 25k... now I wouldnt say *any* of that has been wasted. BUT, I also wouldnt say that any of the info on its own, has really made me money from the markets.

What I will say is that much of what I learned from got me on the right path to trading for a living... in the early days, the money I paid out basically taught me to be much more discerning in what I pay for, even if I didnt learn anything very useful about trading. Once I had a better idea of what not to pay for, I feel I've spent my money much more wisely, and I can definately say that some of the people I met and learned from, whether paid for or not, have taught me things that were important peices in my personal puzzle.

No-one can hand you success or a strategy that will really work for you, and there are lots of ways to trade the markets successfully, but its certainly possible to gain valuable knowledge about trading from others, even if they charge for it. Ultimately, an individuals success can only come from within. Its a brave man who dispenses his knowledge about trading for a fee, since so few will be able to duplicate it.

I've found my personal holy grail - it contains many peices of other peoples work, knowledge and input, and I doubt I could have got to this point without having paid for the wisdom of some very experienced traders in various locations around the globe (maybe I could have, but it would have taken me a whole lot longer). But there was definately a "eureka" moment where I finally "saw the light" and found something that really worked for me.

Whether what I do would work for anyone else... i really dont know. I think trading is something each individual has to figure out for himself for it to be really worth its full potential.

 

[Gumping]

Paid Lots

Charlatan seminar teacher....:whistling

Still... I'm profitable so maybe it was money well spent 🙂

However, the trading system I also once purchased was a complete turkey 😛

Silly Me!! :smart:

 

[pseudo straddle]

Like Arbi, I went to Porlock - can't remember much about it except the journey home was a nightmare - M5 covered in ice - vehicles on the south bound were trying to escape over the hard shoulder into the neighbouring fields:!:

Currently just started Trading Forex the Easy Way - which I believe is probably more accurately described as a trading method and a mentoring service -

My problem is - I do a lot of reading - but not a lot of doing 🙄

 

[shano]

Subscribed to a penny shares tip sheet when first starting out. Graduated up through Small Company Share Watch to Sharescope app and Shares mag.

Attended a couple of free seminars (Greg Secker, Tradesignal, CMC Markets) without going further. Always had the nagging feeling that trading would be more satisfying if I could figure it out for myself rather than being led by the hand, even though I realise that it will take far longer to get my head around it by myself. Having said that, I still subscribe to IBD and Dan Zanger for better or for worse.

Stacks of books - Robert Kyosaki and Peter Slater to start with, then William O'Neil, Bruce Kamich, Gerald Appel, Mark Douglas, Nassim Nicholas Taleb, etc. More interested now in slowing things down, planning the trade, and accepting losses when they happen. Fewer indicators and more psychology!

 

[charliechan]

what ever source of 'education' anyone goes for, i think it would be wise to check that an understanding the type of participants and their general objectives, how markets are structured, understanding of why price moves to where it does is given.

this imo, will give insight to probabilities and market feel/intuition, rather than a method that is based on a set of variables that often by chance, are currently giving good stats.

 

[moneyfac]

Went with an Alan Rich day course and signed up for his ViaTrader/broker thing. Waste of time and expensive mistake as the Via boys seem to have done a runner complete with my money.
Never trust anyone again. If you want to get rich you do it yourself.