Harmonic Trading and my ABCDE pattern

[elitejets]

No dude
I am not using anyones signal service, I just know of some that are out there.
I suggest you take their free trial

 

[Pakua42]

Hasnt anyone read Carolyn Borodens book on Fibonacci strategy? I find it so packed with info, I am reading it over 6 months and cant finish the book. This woman seems like the bomb of Figbonacci book writing. Also she has a service, anyone try it? And what about Mark Braun? He has a fibonacci chat room that looks interesting as hell and Carolyn and his work is very very similar and they know each other. This needs more investigating. I dont believe in Elliot wave as its too subjective, but for many years I threw Fibs in with Elliot wave people and I just may be dead wrong. Fibs, if used with proper triggers and stops and targets may be the best strategy on the planet.............or not. Just dont fall for those expensive software systems, fibs or otherwise. They are all crap as far as I can see.

Marc

 

[forexkunta]

Boy, I hate to tell you, but Fibonacci retracements were actually discovered by R.N. Elliott, the discoverer of the Elliott Wave Principle. Not really subjective, just takes a while to be able to look at a chart and see the waves. It is really funny that every trading platform on the planet has fib retracements and extensions included as part of the package. Kinda makes EW more likely to be dead on. If you want to really learn EW, read the first 2 chapters of the Elliott Wave Principle about 20 times. Will take you less than 6 months, and will really open your eyes. There just is not 6 months worth of info on fibonacci that will fill a book that large, so how much of it is really fluff?

Hasnt anyone read Carolyn Borodens book on Fibonacci strategy? I find it so packed with info, I am reading it over 6 months and cant finish the book. This woman seems like the bomb of Figbonacci book writing. Also she has a service, anyone try it? And what about Mark Braun? He has a fibonacci chat room that looks interesting as hell and Carolyn and his work is very very similar and they know each other. This needs more investigating. I dont believe in Elliot wave as its too subjective, but for many years I threw Fibs in with Elliot wave people and I just may be dead wrong. Fibs, if used with proper triggers and stops and targets may be the best strategy on the planet.............or not. Just dont fall for those expensive software systems, fibs or otherwise. They are all crap as far as I can see.

Marc

 

[iwantu2brich]

Its funny to watch, where this subject goes (100 directions or more). I will lead this hard to focus discusion on the right direction. Cause Scott Carney give his new pattern and it's very similiar to mine. Speaking about "The Shark Pattern" I think if you do some research you will see what I mean (harmonictrader.com) and mine explanation on first page will be obvious and clarifying his approach to this subject. The pattern is the same but our approach to potential reversal zone is different. Scott have well defined reversal zone and I use clusters instead of fixed defined zone. So, pattern is the same, or patterns... Cause Scott have in true, two patterns: open Shark bullish and open Shark bearish and close Shark bullish and close Shark bearish. So, I have only one of witch it works for me (close bullish and close bearish).

It is my great satisfaction knowing that my ideas spoken in Apr 20, 2010 about my ABCDE (close) formation was found by Scott Carney too but published after mine

I dont needed confirmation cause my trading was good enough and my research too.

Doing summary I can tell that Scott have different approach but if you take mine ratios (and logic) and put it to Scott Carney formation the formation is the same (have the same logic, of course close formations).

I was really satisfy knowing that, cause I leaved this subject not because my point of view was not good enough, but after I saw what happens with this subject and of course this was my creation too. I saw that I wanted to push you all to understanding my formation, but my approach was wrong, cause I cannot be responsible for you guys and understand for you. So I was happy trader almost all of this time I was not there, and see what happens, simple psychology and law of psyhics "when you pushing something that thing pushes back". Now I'm not pushing anybody or anything cause I know that this was a good lesson for me and probably for you guys too.

There was of course couple of people who understand mine logic but outside of this forum, now you guys can study mine formation and Scott Carneys aproach and if it helps you I will be hapier more. If not, you will find what works for you cause I've found what works for me, and I know that I'm not so different than you and all traders if they wants and beliebe, can find they way too!

So lets trade and do some money!:clap::smart:

 

[iwantu2brich]

Hasnt anyone read Carolyn Borodens book on Fibonacci strategy? I find it so packed with info, I am reading it over 6 months and cant finish the book. This woman seems like the bomb of Figbonacci book writing. Also she has a service, anyone try it? And what about Mark Braun? He has a fibonacci chat room that looks interesting as hell and Carolyn and his work is very very similar and they know each other. This needs more investigating. I dont believe in Elliot wave as its too subjective, but for many years I threw Fibs in with Elliot wave people and I just may be dead wrong. Fibs, if used with proper triggers and stops and targets may be the best strategy on the planet.............or not. Just dont fall for those expensive software systems, fibs or otherwise. They are all crap as far as I can see.

Marc

Yes Pakua42, you are right,

Software systems are not too good for training the eye. Carolyn Boroden like others, has fbonacci aproach witch works for her.

It's good to know that you like to study and not only to read something cause it has "Fibonacci" inside. And of course the same is with word "Elliott".
Only good approach wich was benefitial for me was Robert Miner's approach to Elliott, and as you know Carolyn Boroden has preface writen by Robert Minner.

This expensive software or just free harmonic software like zup_85, for me is like dog mascot and in the other hand my knowledge is like real dog witch I like the most, for going to walk on market...

Frankly sometimes I like to meet with my friends and have fun with this harmonic software, of course on some holidays or days like saturday or sunday when market is not moving for mortal people. So it is not useles you know...

The last refreshing materials about this subject was "The Art of Trading a Correction" by Jaime Johnson. I take from it what works and leaved witch not resonate with me...

 

[hassanmoukadem]

Hello,
i am very new to harmonics, been reading here and there, getting a bit lost, but i think the only way to get good at it is try to analyse and get thr Pro's feedback.

can anyone tell me if the attached is valid, given that in my chart point C is NOT less (not .618 of swing A)

i am just curios if you think that its still valid.
i would appreciate that anyone comments and explains my flaws so i learn.
thank you

 

[iwantu2brich]

Hello,
i am very new to harmonics, been reading here and there, getting a bit lost, but i think the only way to get good at it is try to analyse and get thr Pro's feedback.

can anyone tell me if the attached is valid, given that in my chart point C is NOT less (not .618 of swing A)

i am just curios if you think that its still valid.
i would appreciate that anyone comments and explains my flaws so i learn.
thank you

Hi hassanmoukadem,

First I want to tell you that in the harmonics more important is logic, then ratios, if you put ratios first you will lost your way.
So for better understanding the subject I suggest you to read some books about it. The first book I recommend is Larry Pesavento's first book. Then we can begin to talk about patterns, ratios, and context.

So, please do not argue for your limitations saying that we are pro's and you are a newbie it the subject, and please do not assume and compare yourself with anybody who speak about harmonics or Elliott. So if you will be reading some books, even then, check on the market what works for you, do not take to yourself any ideas witch you are not sure about!

You want to understand your flaw, but this is not the case there, but if you really want to understand the first flaw (in your thinking, witch you can change anytime you want) I can tell you that you trying in the hard way, and easy way is to first read some basic materials from authors like Larry Pesavento, Robert Miner, Scott Carney, and so one...

Good luck with reading the first book called "Fibonacci Ratios with Pattern Recognition" -by Larry Pesavento!

 

[hassanmoukadem]

Hi hassanmoukadem,

First I want to tell you that in the harmonics more important is logic, then ratios, if you put ratios first you will lost your way.
So for better understanding the subject I suggest you to read some books about it. The first book I recommend is Larry Pesavento's first book. Then we can begin to talk about patterns, ratios, and context.

So, please do not argue for your limitations saying that we are pro's and you are a newbie it the subject, and please do not assume and compare yourself with anybody who speak about harmonics or Elliott. So if you will be reading some books, even then, check on the market what works for you, do not take to yourself any ideas witch you are not sure about!

You want to understand your flaw, but this is not the case there, but if you really want to understand the first flaw (in your thinking, witch you can change anytime you want) I can tell you that you trying in the hard way, and easy way is to first read some basic materials from authors like Larry Pesavento, Robert Miner, Scott Carney, and so one...

Good luck with reading the first book called "Fibonacci Ratios with Pattern Recognition" -by Larry Pesavento!

Thank you,
but may i ask why you insist on the book called Fibonacci Ratios with Pattern Recognition? is it coz other books only stress on pattenens and this one liks the patterns to the fibs?
although i read on amazon that there is some errors in the book, should i proceed with getting it?

besides that , between these books, which is best?

- Fibonacci Ratios with Pattern Recognition

- Harmonic Trading, Volume One: Profiting from the Natural Order of the Financial Markets

- Trade What You See: How To Profit from Pattern Recognition .


thanks in advance.

 

[iwantu2brich]

Thank you,
but may i ask why you insist on the book called Fibonacci Ratios with Pattern Recognition? is it coz other books only stress on pattenens and this one liks the patterns to the fibs?
although i read on amazon that there is some errors in the book, should i proceed with getting it?

besides that , between these books, which is best?

- Fibonacci Ratios with Pattern Recognition

- Harmonic Trading, Volume One: Profiting from the Natural Order of the Financial Markets

- Trade What You See: How To Profit from Pattern Recognition .


thanks in advance.

If you are asking about basic of harmonic patterns, you can find it on Scott Carney's website Welcome to Harmonic Trader

BUT!

There is no such thing as a "best book". I cannot tell you this, even after many, many books about Harmonic Trading and patterns. I know that from my experience that my success is overall knowledge from many authors. Even from authors which had confusing techniques in harmonics, so there was a clarifying moment for me, but still I respect all of them!

The best ideas are not in books but inside of you. Besides you can always check some of the content in this books on google.books, and you will decide witch point of view resonate most with you! Inside of you is knowledge, not in the books, books are good because it helps you to believe in some techniques, but you must believe, so you must check this ideas by yourself. You must have a data, sometimes wrong data to know witch is best for you, by discrimination, by sorting process of deduction. Cause you can always find better material, better book, but you must pick some first and then next, so you will compare witch is worse and witch is better...

Trust your intuition and pick some good materials and then come back with questions and ideas to share with us, best for you!

 

[kidrock]

Hi guys, i'm also a fan of harmonic trading and i'd like to give some contribute at this discussion with some interesting links

for some good ebook you can find a few here: Books on the Gartley pattern , some of them are downloadable

A good indicator is here Forex Harmonic Patterns | AMPMonitor, i think it's the most advanced tool for harmonic patterns

And here you can find a lot of info about the patterns, also many videos with confirmations tecniques and a lot of useful indicators TradingArsenal.com - Successful Forex Trading with harmonic patterns

hope to have been of some help

 

[Pakua42]

Wow, I am just reading this now, 2 years after the post, but "The Blonde technique" which is really a strategy of thinking is awesome....not just for trading but also in not getting discouraged with all things in life. Now..... here is another thought, what if the blonde girl has 6 guys in a row show up(6 trades starting off in the black) but they all turn out to be jerks? Even MISS Confident might stop dating for many months and say "most guys are jerks. Or: (You cant win at trading. Most of us cant and never will be able to!)

I wonder like this beautiful woman theory if we traders need to know when to throw the towel in and admit we are not "the beautiful blonde" and try something else. After all, every winner is winning from you, me and another 9 guys. Like most of us can never be boxing champions no matter who trains us or how hard we try, I wonder if the same is true for trading.......but to a lesser degree! After all, since the Internet created all these software and charting packages we have millions more traders..............and millions more losers too, no? So while the beautiful woman knows right away by the mirror and feedback every day if she is a "winner" how are we all supposed to know? Just a thought....

Blonde technique

Blonde attractive girl do not search for partner, because many men looking on her, simple but true, her live is full of potential partners. She have a choice which man is more attractive for her. So she don't feel "alone" and when she's dating and some man don't went on meeting, she don't care, because she have hundred phone numbers in her phone book.

This metaphor helps me a lot to integrate my emotions when my setup fail and when it do I always imagine this attractive simple method and compare with my behavior!

So I done it and gone on another market, but I will not show it, because I don't trade my formation, so this is not the case. And I was in plus.

Worth mention is definition of my bat pattern, but I reveal it on different occasion.

Now then! MY FORMATION confirm Inzider's approach!



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[watertank]

what is the reward/risk when using the butterfly for trading?

 

[Pakua42]

I never personally backtested gartleys. My thoughts: They work enough to show a profit on a yearly basis....but not enough to keep your mouth shut and stop trying to write books or sell systems about it. Scott Carney I believe cannot get enough profit out of this in futures to make it worth more than being a book seller and Internet huckster. Thats futures where you get leverage. I bet money that with stocks youd barely make 15% a year after commissions and slippage. And thats with perfect execution. Anyone disagree?

 

[bubblez]

Its funny to watch, where this subject goes (100 directions or more). I will lead this hard to focus discusion on the right direction. Cause Scott Carney give his new pattern and it's very similiar to mine. Speaking about "The Shark Pattern" I think if you do some research you will see what I mean (harmonictrader.com) and mine explanation on first page will be obvious and clarifying his approach to this subject. The pattern is the same but our approach to potential reversal zone is different. Scott have well defined reversal zone and I use clusters instead of fixed defined zone. So, pattern is the same, or patterns... Cause Scott have in true, two patterns: open Shark bullish and open Shark bearish and close Shark bullish and close Shark bearish. So, I have only one of witch it works for me (close bullish and close bearish).

It is my great satisfaction knowing that my ideas spoken in Apr 20, 2010 about my ABCDE (close) formation was found by Scott Carney too but published after mine

I dont needed confirmation cause my trading was good enough and my research too.

Doing summary I can tell that Scott have different approach but if you take mine ratios (and logic) and put it to Scott Carney formation the formation is the same (have the same logic, of course close formations).

I was really satisfy knowing that, cause I leaved this subject not because my point of view was not good enough, but after I saw what happens with this subject and of course this was my creation too. I saw that I wanted to push you all to understanding my formation, but my approach was wrong, cause I cannot be responsible for you guys and understand for you. So I was happy trader almost all of this time I was not there, and see what happens, simple psychology and law of psyhics "when you pushing something that thing pushes back". Now I'm not pushing anybody or anything cause I know that this was a good lesson for me and probably for you guys too.

There was of course couple of people who understand mine logic but outside of this forum, now you guys can study mine formation and Scott Carneys aproach and if it helps you I will be hapier more. If not, you will find what works for you cause I've found what works for me, and I know that I'm not so different than you and all traders if they wants and beliebe, can find they way too!

So lets trade and do some money!:clap::smart:

Hi IWANT2BRICH

I have to correct you in the above post you made regarding that your pattern that you presented on this forum in april 20, 2010 is the same as scott carney's shark pattern, and that he also founded the pattern but presented it after yours.

The ratios that you use in your pattern are not the ratios used in scott carneys shark pattern. Scott Carneys shark pattern is the precursor of the 5-0 pattern that you have mentioned before in this forum. The 5-0 pattern was presented on Scott Carney's website HarmonicTrader.com in 2003. Scott Carney released the details of the 5-0 pattern to the public in an article on TradingMarkets.com in march 2005 therefore it is impossibe for him to have released your pattern to the public as you are 9 years to late, but that argument although correct is irrelevant because as i said your pattern is not the same as scott carneys shark pattern because the ratios are incorrect.

 

[Pakua42]

bubblez,

Who cares if want2berich is not exactly correct in what he says scott is doing. As long as he is profitable, right? I say ,lets give him some room, let him post a few charts for us when he gets the chance, let him give us a couple of plays to watch, and maybe his results are way better than Scotts! I happen to know what Scott touts as his percentage he makes with his gartley 9which is higher than almost all his other patterns) and it doesnt impress me that much for the amount of trades you need to do every year. He wins but as we all know...even the greatest system9as happened to the turtles of market wizards fame) can suddenly have their system just stop working on any given moment.

Hey, if you guys want to go heads up in showing charts of entries taken, this would be a blast. I might join in also. Right now Im out of the EUR/USD short term, which is my main instrument because i have way too much junk on my chart and when thswy happens it tells me that short term at least, anything can happen. although for me, I need to see a break over 25 on a daily chart to even possibly think this dollar rally is over. So I have drawn a line in the sand and put my money where my mouth is.But long term Im still short the eur/usd until it breaks over 1.2500. And it may never do that again for all we know. It may do it in 2 weeks. IM SHORT EURO! PERIOD! No special patterns, just watching my fib clusters and 2 common moving averages.


BTW...Im always on the loook out for some new fib charting that could either cluster the fibs for me, or eliminate them from the chart when they are broken thru, and anything that will keep us from making it such a chore to find good trades. I will share my software if a bunch of you share yours.

 

[fxxtrader]

Which should I subscribe to Scott Carney harmonictrader.com or fxgroundworks.com alert subscription. I don't mind making the investment but which one should I choose.

thanks.

 

[iwantu2brich]

Hi IWANT2BRICH

I have to correct you in the above post you made regarding that your pattern that you presented on this forum in april 20, 2010 is the same as scott carney's shark pattern, and that he also founded the pattern but presented it after yours.

The ratios that you use in your pattern are not the ratios used in scott carneys shark pattern. Scott Carneys shark pattern is the precursor of the 5-0 pattern that you have mentioned before in this forum. The 5-0 pattern was presented on Scott Carney's website HarmonicTrader.com in 2003. Scott Carney released the details of the 5-0 pattern to the public in an article on TradingMarkets.com in march 2005 therefore it is impossibe for him to have released your pattern to the public as you are 9 years to late, but that argument although correct is irrelevant because as i said your pattern is not the same as scott carneys shark pattern because the ratios are incorrect.

Market doesn't care about who first publish pattern. Also study more carefully and you will see what I'm talking about, and yes, my pattern is more precise cause again market doesn't care about if its ends at 88,6 retracement. Maybe Scott like this ratio and will enter only on it, cause it works for him.

You've said that its different but its not, again study more, do not judge. You want to argue but I don't, cause market will tell you if what you are doing is right. I and Scott has different point of view and in some situations (if you study more) you will see that its the same, of course without "open" variation of his formation. This is why I left this forum cause there is more arguing than really meaty logic study of the market.
Now I'm happy and doing well and discovering more good stuff and of course trading is day by day more satisfying