Gann Management
- Thread starter ColinRiche
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dsmodi
yes - but if you gave me a chart - any chart of any stock, indicie, bond, currency eyc, I could show you gann working and also candlesticks, fibonacci, trend lines, simple smas, exponential smas etc etc -
but markets move in ticks - and looking at a chart is only going to tell you 1% of 1% of what happened at any price point - any trader knows that
getting yourself into a position in order to profit from any of that is the problem - and by profit - i mean make money day in day out - none of that makes money for anyone except trainers and bookwriters
yes - but if you gave me a chart - any chart of any stock, indicie, bond, currency eyc, I could show you gann working and also candlesticks, fibonacci, trend lines, simple smas, exponential smas etc etc -
but markets move in ticks - and looking at a chart is only going to tell you 1% of 1% of what happened at any price point - any trader knows that
getting yourself into a position in order to profit from any of that is the problem - and by profit - i mean make money day in day out - none of that makes money for anyone except trainers and bookwriters
stevet:
hmmm - I can't help disagreeing with ya mate, on this occasion. I don't think they make the chart from the past "fit" into what they want. It's quite obvious they stick to their rules, and it works.....
learning the rules and all that is the trick though. Try and have a look at their seminar with an open mind if u can... if nothing else, i would certainly be interested in your views thereafter.
trader333/stevet:
r u guys able to define arbing?
cheers
exactly what is arbing....
hmmm - I can't help disagreeing with ya mate, on this occasion. I don't think they make the chart from the past "fit" into what they want. It's quite obvious they stick to their rules, and it works.....
learning the rules and all that is the trick though. Try and have a look at their seminar with an open mind if u can... if nothing else, i would certainly be interested in your views thereafter.
trader333/stevet:
r u guys able to define arbing?
cheers
exactly what is arbing....
dsmodi
sorry - did not explain it right i guess - they dont fit the chart to do what they want - the things that trainers and like the Gann people show and talk about do exist - but trading off them is a whole different ball game - and the trading element represents 99.99% of making money - and its the trading part that the trainers dont understand - thats why they train
for a bad example - lets take a 50% retracement level - and lets look at a chart - for sure at some point a market is gonna hit that level and bounce off it - but you are only seeing the bounce off the 50% level if it happened - had the market fallen through that level to way lower - there is no big red flashing light to say - hey that 50% did not work
so if i was showing you a 50% level - i would say - look at that - a miracle - a bounce off a 50% level - but i would also show you 10 other points where that did not happen - and had you tried to trade the 50% level - you woudl have got screwed - and even if you tried to trade the 50% level that did work - you might have got stopped out so many times before it worked - that you woudl have got screwed - but a trainer or whatever just highlights the plus point because that is how they get your money from you - smoke and mirrors
my definition of arbing is finding two different contracts which have a relationship and trading off that relationship when the divergence from the normal has reached a certain level
trader333
i trade futures indexes and stock options
sorry - did not explain it right i guess - they dont fit the chart to do what they want - the things that trainers and like the Gann people show and talk about do exist - but trading off them is a whole different ball game - and the trading element represents 99.99% of making money - and its the trading part that the trainers dont understand - thats why they train
for a bad example - lets take a 50% retracement level - and lets look at a chart - for sure at some point a market is gonna hit that level and bounce off it - but you are only seeing the bounce off the 50% level if it happened - had the market fallen through that level to way lower - there is no big red flashing light to say - hey that 50% did not work
so if i was showing you a 50% level - i would say - look at that - a miracle - a bounce off a 50% level - but i would also show you 10 other points where that did not happen - and had you tried to trade the 50% level - you woudl have got screwed - and even if you tried to trade the 50% level that did work - you might have got stopped out so many times before it worked - that you woudl have got screwed - but a trainer or whatever just highlights the plus point because that is how they get your money from you - smoke and mirrors
my definition of arbing is finding two different contracts which have a relationship and trading off that relationship when the divergence from the normal has reached a certain level
trader333
i trade futures indexes and stock options
Stevet:
Your point is a very valid one whereby they don't show you how to trade. And that is the MOST important part.
However, I still do think the gann peoples methodology can help one's trading - if it agrees with your personality....
But your parts are certainly important....
Your point is a very valid one whereby they don't show you how to trade. And that is the MOST important part.
However, I still do think the gann peoples methodology can help one's trading - if it agrees with your personality....
But your parts are certainly important....
Colin,
I used Gann Management`s system for a year, and I don`t recommend it.
The main method of analysis was to draw a multitude of gann retracement lines between several significant high & low swing points, and see if any of them formed a cluster at a price level. You then waited for the price to get to that level and you considered entering a trade providing certain other criteria were satisfied.
Their method also places a lot of emphasis on gann angles drawn up/down from significant lows/highs, again intersecting with the retracement lines/clusters.
You often end up with charts covered with so many lines that you get analysis paralysis. The system leads you to expect that clusters will form significant support/resistance levels, but when you see the price sail through these levels and reverse somewhere inbetween you lose faith.
Despite their claims, the data seemed to me no better than from other providers, and for an EOD charting package it`s incredibly expensive (although in fairness you also get basic training & their nightly online commentary/stock picks). I seem to recall it doesn`t even provide volume data, which I`ve since found is an essential to any form of trading. Nor did it provide any of the usual technical indicators that you get with other charting packages.
I got hold of a copy of W.D. Gann`s last book, and found that some of the ideas therein were at variance with the interpretation used by Gann Management. I understand that W.D. Gann developed & changed his form of analysis during his life, and I`m sure if he were alive today he`d be espousing the use of Level 2 (he was reportedly keen on "tape reading") and other modern trading tools, rather than still applying all of the same old ideas.
I used Gann Management`s system for a year, and I don`t recommend it.
The main method of analysis was to draw a multitude of gann retracement lines between several significant high & low swing points, and see if any of them formed a cluster at a price level. You then waited for the price to get to that level and you considered entering a trade providing certain other criteria were satisfied.
Their method also places a lot of emphasis on gann angles drawn up/down from significant lows/highs, again intersecting with the retracement lines/clusters.
You often end up with charts covered with so many lines that you get analysis paralysis. The system leads you to expect that clusters will form significant support/resistance levels, but when you see the price sail through these levels and reverse somewhere inbetween you lose faith.
Despite their claims, the data seemed to me no better than from other providers, and for an EOD charting package it`s incredibly expensive (although in fairness you also get basic training & their nightly online commentary/stock picks). I seem to recall it doesn`t even provide volume data, which I`ve since found is an essential to any form of trading. Nor did it provide any of the usual technical indicators that you get with other charting packages.
I got hold of a copy of W.D. Gann`s last book, and found that some of the ideas therein were at variance with the interpretation used by Gann Management. I understand that W.D. Gann developed & changed his form of analysis during his life, and I`m sure if he were alive today he`d be espousing the use of Level 2 (he was reportedly keen on "tape reading") and other modern trading tools, rather than still applying all of the same old ideas.
Dunno if this helps,
http://www.tradersworld.com/advertise/index.htm
That's a link I got from someone selling me ad space (trying to, rather) and there were a couple of PDF copies of the mag downloadable from the site... just in case you haven't seen it yet. From what I saw it's heavily into Gann, and I'd imagine would prove a better search envoronment for the answers you're after. Les B mentioned this mag earlier on as well.
Dave
http://www.tradersworld.com/advertise/index.htm
That's a link I got from someone selling me ad space (trying to, rather) and there were a couple of PDF copies of the mag downloadable from the site... just in case you haven't seen it yet. From what I saw it's heavily into Gann, and I'd imagine would prove a better search envoronment for the answers you're after. Les B mentioned this mag earlier on as well.
Dave
tonypaulson
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Hi - Just picked up on this thread - I work in the City and by far and away the best know Gann analyst is Juliette Clark (take a look at www.ganncorner.com) She has a very significant following in the interest rate futures market, and has quite a long history and track record
Quote from www.ganncorner.com
"It is widely followed by investment professionals in the financial centres of the world."
"In over fifteen years as a proprietary trader and analyst Juliette Clark has refined Gann’s techniques to bring a unique perspective on market movements. "
Does anyone know the names of the top 3 investment professionals and the companies they work for, that follow her analysis in the USA?
and which proprietary trading company does she presently work for as a trader?
"It is widely followed by investment professionals in the financial centres of the world."
"In over fifteen years as a proprietary trader and analyst Juliette Clark has refined Gann’s techniques to bring a unique perspective on market movements. "
Does anyone know the names of the top 3 investment professionals and the companies they work for, that follow her analysis in the USA?
and which proprietary trading company does she presently work for as a trader?
Gann Management and IDS
We recently attended a seminar in Bredbury with Fred Stafford, Gary Stafford and Tony Zafer.
We are very tempted to sign up for this but would like to find someone who has used this system in order to get their comments.
Did you ever find anyone? If so what was your conculusion.
We recently attended a seminar in Bredbury with Fred Stafford, Gary Stafford and Tony Zafer.
We are very tempted to sign up for this but would like to find someone who has used this system in order to get their comments.
Did you ever find anyone? If so what was your conculusion.
Sorry misread this, didn't realise you actually tried them for a year.
Did you make any money using this?
Did you find the company supportive?
Did you use them for advise or did you just use their software?
Do you know of anyone else who has use them and of their experience?
How are you trading now?
Thanks for your help
Did you make any money using this?
Did you find the company supportive?
Did you use them for advise or did you just use their software?
Do you know of anyone else who has use them and of their experience?
How are you trading now?
Thanks for your help
No, I actually lost money using their techniques. As I wrote above, more often than not the price often sailed thru` the support/resistance levels predicted by the Gann lines/angles. On occasion they "worked", but in my view by no more than the laws of probability would suggest. As with any form of technical analysis, the "true believers" in any particular method will cherry pick points on charts showing when it has worked to perfection, whilst conveniently glossing over those times when it hasn`t.
The company were always friendly and supportive, in the basics of their system, although if you wanted training beyond the basics (e.g. group seminars or one-to-one training) I seem to remember there were additional charges.
As for advice, within the standard package they provided a (nightly) commentary on potential trades which they had selected & on any stocks which subscribers had submitted for analysis. However, in my experience, there seemed to be as many losers as gainers in their selections. As such I mainly referred to the commentary as an educational aid, and used their software to make my own mind up about trades.
No, I don`t know anyone else using their system.
I`m trading now using my own blend of (modern)technical analysis, which basically involves entering at pullbacks/rallies from established uptrends/downtrends. This doesn`t include any Gann based methodology! What I`ve learnt over the years, from giving large amounts of my cash away to a variety of firms like Gann Management, is that you have to develop your own way of trading which suits your individual personality & risk tolerance. Psychology is often said to be by far the most important factor in any successful trading methodology. Expecting other people`s trading & risk management methods to suit you & make you an easy fortune is largely a fool`s game.
The company were always friendly and supportive, in the basics of their system, although if you wanted training beyond the basics (e.g. group seminars or one-to-one training) I seem to remember there were additional charges.
As for advice, within the standard package they provided a (nightly) commentary on potential trades which they had selected & on any stocks which subscribers had submitted for analysis. However, in my experience, there seemed to be as many losers as gainers in their selections. As such I mainly referred to the commentary as an educational aid, and used their software to make my own mind up about trades.
No, I don`t know anyone else using their system.
I`m trading now using my own blend of (modern)technical analysis, which basically involves entering at pullbacks/rallies from established uptrends/downtrends. This doesn`t include any Gann based methodology! What I`ve learnt over the years, from giving large amounts of my cash away to a variety of firms like Gann Management, is that you have to develop your own way of trading which suits your individual personality & risk tolerance. Psychology is often said to be by far the most important factor in any successful trading methodology. Expecting other people`s trading & risk management methods to suit you & make you an easy fortune is largely a fool`s game.
