FXCM owed $225 million by customers who lost on CHF

[Pat494]

Yeah, fxcm can also cease to be and dissolve. i.e. THE DEATH OF THE COMPANY !


So , DEATH, or a chance of life. DEATH or a chance of life ?


:cheesy:

Easier and a lot cheaper to go bankrupt and start again. This time getting their basics correct imho.
Spinola makes it sound like a person. It's just a loo paper company.

 

[spinola]

Easier and a lot cheaper to go bankrupt and start again. This time getting their basics correct imho.
Spinola makes it sound like a person. It's just a loo paper company.

It is a person, ' a corporate person ' . At birth , companies are incorporated and their death is when they dissolved . As a corporate person, that is their death.

In US last couple years they are protesting to take away rights of the corporate person in law, ones which put human persons at risk from them.


Protest Against Corporate Person-hood 01/19/2013

 

[apau]

Stock is trading $1.6

It is a person, ' a corporate person ' . At birth , companies are incorporated and their death is when they dissolved . As a corporate person, that is their death.

In US last couple years they are protesting to take away rights of the corporate person in law, ones which put human persons at risk from them.


Protest Against Corporate Person-hood 01/19/2013

 

[apau]

There goes FXCM Securities...

"Foreign-exchange broker FXCM Inc. plans to consider sales of noncore assets to help pay off a $300 million rescue loan it received after trading losses nearly sank the firm.

New York-based FXCM also is reviewing countries where it offers currency trading, with an eye toward possibly lopping off jurisdictions where capital requirements and other costs are too onerous, according to a person familiar with the matter.

FXCM was forced to seek a bailout this month after the Swiss National Bank, in a surprise move, scrapped a cap on the value of the country’s currency. That left FXCM customers owing it about $225 million, and the company warned it might be in violation of capital requirements as a result. "

Also looks like FXCM slipped this bit of news out on a Friday afternoon hoping no one would notice;

"The loan has an initial interest rate of 10% per annum, increasing by 1.5% per annum each quarter for so long as it is outstanding, but in no event exceeding 20.5% per annum (before giving effect to any applicable default rate). Under certain circumstances, a default interest rate will apply on all obligations during the event of default at a per annum rate equal to 2% above the applicable interest rate."

 

[jkane]

Clients should be put in prison if they do not pay money back

I would go after them real ahrd

 

[apau]

Clients should be put in prison if they do not pay money back

I would go after them real ahrd

I don't agree, FXCM guaranteed no negative balances. How can they now go after them?

 

[spinola]

I'd imagine they must have some six or seven figure lawyers on the leash,and if your staring at quarter billion financial black hole, I'd imagine the instructions to lawyers would be, ' k'in earn it ! '

 

[tar]

I don't agree, FXCM guaranteed no negative balances. How can they now go after them?

No they didnt , the devil is in the details ..

 

[apau]

No they didnt , the devil is in the details ..

Explain please.

 

[tar]

Explain please.

Sure

From FXCM's agreement :"you may not be responsible for debit balances directly resulting from trading activity, except in the case of a force majeure as detailed in Section 26.6; "

26.6 Force majeure: Since we do not control signal power, its reception or routing via Internet, configuration of your equipment or reliability of its connections, we shall not be liable for any claims, losses, damages, costs or expenses, including attorney’s fees, caused directly or indirectly, by any breakdown or failure of any transmission or communication system or equipment or computer facility or trading software, whether belonging to us, our Affiliates, you, any market, or any settlement or clearing system when you trade online (via Internet) or for any cause preventing us from performing any or all our obligations, any act of God, war, terrorism, malicious damage, civil commotion, industrial acts, any Exceptional Market Event, or acts and regulations of any governmental or supra national bodies or authorities which in our opinion prevent an orderly market in relation to your Orders (a “Force Majeure Event”). Upon the occurrence of a Force Majeure Event, we shall use commercially reasonable efforts to resume performance and we may give you written notice. Upon occurrence of a Force Majeure Event, all of our obligations under these Terms of Business shall be immediately suspended for the duration of such Force Majeure Event. Additionally, we may take any one or more of the following steps:
(a)
alter normal trading times;
(b)
alter the Margin requirements;
(c)
amend or vary these Terms of Business and any Transaction contemplated by these Terms of Business,
insofar as it is impractical or impossible for us to comply with our obligations;
(d)
close any or all open Transactions, cancel instructions and orders as we deem to be appropriate in the circumstances; and/or
(e)
take or omit to take all such other actions as we deem to be reasonably appropriate in the circumstances having regard to the positions of yours, ours, and other customers.

 

[apau]

Wow, they have redefined Force Majeure, well done.

Number one, the company should have had proper risk management and controls in place.

Number two, if these customers take the case to the regulator in terms of understanding the risk in the first place, the company will not have a leg to stand on as it is a common issue in financial markets at present. Whether I agree with it or not, tucking an unusual Force Majeure clause into the terms will not stand up in court and that is even if it gets passed the regulators complaints procedure.

 

[BSD]

Thankfully in law no one gives a rats ass what some bucket shop creatively writes or doesn't write up in it's contracts.

Instead Courts decide what's what.

And no US based jury court is gonna let FXCM get off with that total BS of their private and ludicrous definition of Force Majeur, also not in view of their previous history of ripping clients off by trading against them etc.

Take em to the laundry and put that sad saga to it's well earned rest already.

 

[BSD]

Like I said, contracts are effectively meaningless as it's never gonna hold up in court, which is the only place this is gonna be decided.

 

[BSD]

Nobody cares mate about their marketing lala whose sole purpose was to generate new accounts, and that they are now slimeiley trying to wiggle their way out of.

Someone needs to take em to court and get them sorted and hopefully put to their well deserved rest.

Forward this "Force Majeur" crap to Bloomberg, they are going after them big style at the moment.

No fans of em either.

 

[BSD]

As I said, it's the court that's gonna decide what's what irrespective of who sues whom, that's not the relevant issue, the court's decision is.

 

[spinola]

Does that mean, they stiffed ' paying winners ' from the swissy move too then, if they are stating ALL their obligations in terms of business are cancelled etc ?

...all of our obligations under these Terms of Business shall be immediately suspended for the duration of such Force Majeure Event


So no obligation to pay positive balances arising out of the event ? Who has made a tonne from fxcm being long the swissy , are you getting it ? Got it ?

 

[Fugazsy]

those broker are mostly scam bags, we need to keep an eye on them all the time, I have spent the last 2 days dealing with them to make sure I do not get trapped in the future, no one will guarantee to cover for incidents like the one happened the other day, only one said but I have not read the small print....but I am not interested because they do not have an office down here.

For what I understand the only way is to not to have a leverage not more than 1:50, I spoke to what seem a decent broker today and they told me that they have not suffered much on the incident because they keep the leverage very low, especially on the swiss.

Some cowboys were offering high leverage to make more money when clients were losing and now they went burst, to be honest I do not feel very sorry for them....but that is just me

 

[tar]

Does that mean, they stiffed ' paying winners ' from the swissy move too then, if they are stating ALL their obligations in terms of business are cancelled etc ?

...all of our obligations under these Terms of Business shall be immediately suspended for the duration of such Force Majeure Event


So no obligation to pay positive balances arising out of the event ? Who has made a tonne from fxcm being long the swissy , are you getting it ? Got it ?

Didn't hear anything in that area yet , just that they are asking clients to cover their negative balances ...

 

[Fugazsy]

one other thing I do not understand with those brokers is this: we pay them and they need to supply us liquidity, but when liquidity is not there, they do not take responsibility.....but that is what we are paying them for, aren't we?

 

[apau]

one other thing I do not understand with those brokers is this: we pay them and they need to supply us liquidity, but when liquidity is not there, they do not take responsibility.....but that is what we are paying them for, aren't we?

I have to say I agree totally with your views, the ridiculous leverage has caused this issue and they are now trying to wriggle out of the loss that they had no processes in place to control.

Once again, no court or regulator will side with this company as I am sure most of the clients didn't even know this could happen.

Simple suitability! Expect the FCA to weigh in on these kinds of firms in the near future.