FuturesBetting.com Re-Launching

[Vaco]

Where did you get the figure of 20$ as FB commission ?

post 132.

YM--0-200 lots 2 per side then 1 point per side

so they add a spread of 2 points per side to the underlying. so for a roundtrip (buy and sell) thats 4 points times the value of the no of contracts your trading 1 contract = $5 so $20

 

[chilltrader]

post 132.

YM--0-200 lots 2 per side then 1 point per side

so they add a spread of 2 points per side to the underlying. so for a roundtrip (buy and sell) thats 4 points times the value of the no of contracts your trading 1 contract = $5 so $20

ok! so how does that compare with, say IB?

 

[Vaco]

ib are dma they do not add to the spread so the spread is 1 point commision is aprox $3.50 per round trip but this does NOT increase with no of contracts traded.

however we are not really comparing the cost of commision alone you have to take into account that you would pay tax on all profits made trading with ib hence my long post above.

I have since been thinking about it further and believe that if you are placing stop/limit orders to do all your trading then you are better off with fb but if your trading at the market then your are better off with traditional dma, reason been that when placing market orders you will always get filled at a worse price spreadbetting due to the increased spread however with limit orders both orders you are out at the same price.

 

[fm663]

post 132.

YM--0-200 lots 2 per side then 1 point per side

so they add a spread of 2 points per side to the underlying. so for a roundtrip (buy and sell) thats 4 points times the value of the no of contracts your trading 1 contract = $5 so $20

From what I have seen so far, FuturesBetting's commissions are atleast 3 to 4 times expensive than Interactive Brokers. Also, FB charges more commissions than all other spreadbetting firms I have seen. Do you agree?

Just because FB is the only DMA spreadbetting firm, they are playing monopoly. If commissions eat away a lot of the profits, you are doomed.

 

[chilltrader]

From what I have seen so far, FuturesBetting's commissions are atleast 3 to 4 times expensive than Interactive Brokers. Also, FB charges more commissions than all other spreadbetting firms I have seen. Do you agree?

Just because FB is the only DMA spreadbetting firm, they are playing monopoly. If commissions eat away a lot of the profits, you are doomed.

I currently use spreadbetting platforms... so

For each 1 GBP bet, I get 4 pips spread
= 4 GBP commission each trip
= 8GBP "commission" for each 1GBP RTT

Now FB charges 20$ for 5$ RTT
= 8$ for 2$ RTT
= 4 GBP for 1 GBP RTT (roughly)..

So its better!

and since its DMA, probably makes it worthwhile as well

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

Agree with the last bit, but doesn't the rest really only apply if you break even overall?

 

[chilltrader]

Agree with the last bit, but doesn't the rest really only apply if you break even overall?

We are just talking in terms of plain "cost of trading".

Since..

Profit = (Sell - Commissions) - (Buy + Commissions)

So the lower the commissions the more the profit and It makes more impact if:
1. You are trading a smaller account size
2. Take into account "monthly costs" for say 100 trades per month.

If platform A charges 1/2 of platform B in commissions, you are straightaway better off!

 

[Vaco]

I currently use spreadbetting platforms... so

For each 1 GBP bet, I get 4 pips spread
= 4 GBP commission each trip
= 8GBP "commission" for each 1GBP RTT

Now FB charges 20$ for 5$ RTT
= 8$ for 2$ RTT
= 4 GBP for 1 GBP RTT (roughly)..

So its better!

and since its DMA, probably makes it worthwhile as well

I'm sure FB will correct me if i'm wrong but i believe the spread will be 5 points not 4 so 1 point more then wht u currently use. they add 2 points either side of ym so

ym = 11094/095
FB = 11092/97
cmc = 11092/96 during market hours and the same as fb out of hours.

however if you are haveing trouble with requotes or spikes or just plain not getting filled then fb is probably worth the extra point in spread.

PLease also note tht you have to trade full contract sizes so you wont be trading anything for £1 a point!

When talking about the spread i am comparing to traditional dma and wish to establish which is more cost effective for a profitable trader.

I have since come to the conclusion that it all depends on the orders you place, If all your orders are market orders then you are better off with traditional dma as the extra 4point spread will be eating into your profits making paying tax cheaper. however if your entries, stops and targets are all placed as limit/stop orders you are better off with spreadbetting as you would not be taking advantage of the tighter spreads tht you get through dma.

 

[fm663]

Agree with the last bit, but doesn't the rest really only apply if you break even overall?

I'm new to UK and wanted to take advantage of spreadbetting. Problem being I think most market maker firms are not honest. Only 1 DMA broker available - FB, but trading cost is way too high & they not located within UK for FSA regulation purposes.

With IB I'm always making profits month by month (not all trades are winners, but overall). Guess what? I usually make net profits of $4000 to $5000 month but end up paying approx $1000 in commissions.

FB charges 4.17 multiply of IB. With FB same trades will cost me $4170 commissions and profit will reduce to $1000 or break even. I know that psychology plays a big factor - not sure how such changes might affect my trading style!!!

Commissions definitely matters. FB is tax free, IB is not Even after paying tax, I'm better off with IB.

If FB were cheaper to deal with, they would definitely get more business.

 

[fm663]

I mainly trade emini S&P500 futures contracts.
Market spread = 0.25 points

IB commission = $4.80 roundturn.
FB commission = 0.4 points = $20 round turn.

Both are DMAs. See how expensive FB is?

FB turns out more expensive than the market maker spreadbetting firms too, anyway I don't like dealing with market makers.

 

[fm663]

Agree with the last bit, but doesn't the rest really only apply if you break even overall?

Mate, you don't wanna deal with break even situations.Trading psychology will drive you crazy. I've done that in the past, don't want to be in HOPEFUL situations praying just to be able to reach breakeven :cheesy:

However, if you are a long term trader (like less than 1 or 2 trades a month) then its a different story.

 

[Vaco]

I mainly trade emini S&P500 futures contracts.
Market spread = 0.25 points

IB commission = $4.80 roundturn.
FB commission = 0.4 points = $20 round turn.

Both are DMAs. See how expensive FB is?

FB turns out more expensive than the market maker spreadbetting firms too, anyway I don't like dealing with market makers.

your missing the point, in the uk you will have to pay CGT on your profits trading with IB. profits made with FB are tax free so your comparison should be tax burden + commision vs FBs extra spread.

 

[Vaco]

Question for FB

please explain how the spread/commission works.

Currently if i place a buy limit order to buy the dow at 11000 i will get fiiled when the ask/offer of the price quoted touches my order. at this point i will be 4 points down as the spread where i am is 4 points.

If the bid then moves up to 11000 and i decided to sell i would be out of the trade at breakeven with no gain/loss and no other costs.

My eod statement would show the orders executed and my balence would be the same as it was the night before.

In the scenario given above would my statement from fb be the same or would it show a $20x no of contracts traded charge for for the day deducted from my account?

 

[bobomini]

Does any one know of any spread betting firm that will allow this scenero (excluding FB):
Enter by market order (just pull the trigger)......then immediately amend the automatic stop-loss or set up a very tight stop-loss (example 3 ticks)? My experience is that most firms have a minimal distance from the market where you are not allowed to place stop loss. Why do they do that? Is that hidden charge when you lose a trade?
I stand corrected that with most SBFs, even when entering a trade with a limit order, your stop must be higher than a certain number or ticks. So unless all your entries and exits are market orders, you tend to pay this hidden charge. Interestingly, it also means you may not exit a trade with small profit if you did not enter by market order because in most cases, you will be forced to place your stop, some distance from the market. If I am wrong please correct me.
Comments please.

 

[bobomini]

Does any one know of any spread betting firm that will allow this scenero (excluding FB):
Enter by market order (just pull the trigger)......then immediately amend the automatic stop-loss or set up a very tight stop-loss (example 3 ticks)? My experience is that most firms have a minimal distance from the market where you are not allowed to place stop loss. Why do they do that? Is that hidden charge when you lose a trade?
I stand corrected that with most SBFs, even when entering a trade with a limit order, your stop must be higher than a certain number or ticks. So unless all your entries and exits are market orders, you tend to pay this hidden charge. Intrestingly, it also means you cannot exit a trade with small profit if you did not enter by market order because in most cases, you will be forced to place your stop, some distance from the market. If I am wrong please correct me.
Comments please.

 

[fm663]

your missing the point, in the uk you will have to pay CGT on your profits trading with IB. profits made with FB are tax free so your comparison should be tax burden + commision vs FBs extra spread.

Sound's like you're from UK too. How much is the CGT tax?

Assuming CGT tax is worst case 50%, IB is still better with the example I provided earlier.

 

[Vaco]

FB,

I know the spread reduces aftre 200 trades a month but i for one am never gonna make tht figure, could size be a contributing factor in getting the spread lower as the guy doing 10 contracts 20 times a month is making you just as much as the guy doing 1 contract 200 times a month.

 

[clbfjc]

Hi,

Has anybody go a copy of futuresbetting old rate card they can send me when they used decrease the spread further depending on how many lots you traded per month 0 -250, 250 - 1000, 1000 - 4999 etc etc. Felt this was a better system.

 

[futuresbetting]

when are you launching then????????

we are testing at the moment .should be within the next few days.

 

[fm663]

we are testing at the moment .should be within the next few days.

I see that your website is live. Are you fully live?