Futures broker - any recommendations?

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FatCactus

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Can anyone recommend a futures broker which offers:

- Sterling account
- Electronic trading
- Stop losses

For reference, I've looked at:

- ODL securities (like their platform - myBroker - but it doesn't do stop losses)
- GNI touch (everything excellent - except the £200/month commission charge)
- TwoWayFutures (good - but covers too few markets)

Very grateful for any advice.
 
Glenn said:
www.interactivebrokers.com
IB for short.

Glenn
Click to expand...
Seconded. The majority of futures traders on this board seem to be using IB, and some u.s. shares traders. Good commissions, most markets including the Far East, stable (free) platform, comprehensive website, loads of other front end and charting programs can be run off their API feed. Customer service is sometimes criticised, certainly they don't do 'hand holding', but I've had no probs.
 
Thanks

peto said:
Seconded. The majority of futures traders on this board seem to be using IB, and some u.s. shares traders. Good commissions, most markets including the Far East, stable (free) platform, comprehensive website, loads of other front end and charting programs can be run off their API feed. Customer service is sometimes criticised, certainly they don't do 'hand holding', but I've had no probs.
Click to expand...

Glenn & peto

Many thanks. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
 
And just to add another useful feature, you can download a free live simulator which runs off the IB feed.
www.tradingsimulation.com - (thanks to Henry)

If you research the IB company you will discover just how big and competitive they are and how well they are viewed in terms of protecting clients funds.

Glenn (just an IB customer)
 
Just because the majority trade with IB and they have the cheapest commissions DOES NOT mean they are the best. They probably charge the highest on margin than others, also their policy could be NOT in favour of the client when positions are on margin call. How many days of grace do they give you to pay up the marg and what happens to positions if marg is not met on time? Cheap does not always mean best! Do they allow you to adjust or roll positions if u are on marg call? I have a feeling they would want u to settle the marg first.
Companies that are cheap tend to employ monkeys. Do ur research and ask a lot of questions.

I would rather pay high commissions with a broker that charge low or none at all marg above the clearing house and also give a few days grace to pay marg-calls. One broker once closed my written legs and left my long legs open because the margin calls was paid just 6 hrs late.
Ask them how do they manage to stay in business charging peanuts on comms. Remember high marg means LESS trades and less trades means LESS profits 🙁

Would u buy cheap clothes or cheap holidays etc? u get what u pay for :cheesy:

Bull
Think b4u pull the trigger 🙄
 
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Hmmm ... I am inspired to respond to bulldozer.

I use IB and am happy with them. I think that there are also other good companies out there but lots of bad companies as well. The web chat based customer service is good unless you ask either too many dingbat questions or very very hard questions. This is a lean mean efficient operation and they do have some difficulty with either extreme.

Now, on to bulldozer's points (apt name):
- no one charges margin. margin is just an allocation of capital required to cover the risk on your position. if you are up to your margin when trading a normal strategy YOU ARE OVERTRADING
- if you are getting margin calls forget about how many days grace .... this is a huge warning that something is VERY WRONG ... figure out what you are doing wrong before you bust the account.

"I would rather pay high commissions with a broker that charge low or none at all marg above the clearing house and also give a few days grace to pay marg-calls. One broker once closed my written legs and left my long legs open because the margin calls was paid just 6 hrs late."

Again, margin is not a charge, its holding money to cover risk and if one is running into this space I suspect one is doomed. I note that "one broker" wasn't IB but if I was a broker with a customer overstepping his risk I would close his positions too.

"Ask them how do they manage to stay in business charging peanuts on comms. Remember high marg means LESS trades and less trades means LESS profits"

They have been in business for quite a while and provided a better deal than most, much of that time. They do it by having volume, good electronic execution, and not too many support people. They are lean and mean.

Adequate margins mean that the traders are trading within reasonable risk limits and hopefully protect some people from themselves. I think most brokers would rather gain their profits from customers who trade sensibly and are able to stick with it for long periods ... low margins > customers going broke through overtrading > have to get another customer (and have a dissatisfied losing customer while you are at it).

I think that you make choices of:
cheap, fast, quality, features etc.

If you want high commissions and high service then talk to someone like fox futures or attain capital but if you are NOT A DINGBAT and you want fast, good features, and cheap commission then IB is a great choice for trading the electronic markets.



Note: My comments about margin relate most strongly to directional stock or futures traders. I think that bulldozer is an options trader and perhaps controls his risk by other means. In that case a more expensive specialist options broker who (maybe, better) took into account the margin effects of options strategies would suit better than IB. He may well not be a dingbat. 😉
 
Well said Kiwi-however IB has so far : logged me out on at least 5 occasions for no discernable reason.
Prevented me from removing an 'accidental' trade ( I brushed my touch pad,and found myself about to sell a deep in the money put). A passing car with CB radio made my Dell laptop transmit a trade I was lining up.
Margin is about liffe +50% but it's hard to figure out the accounts section anyway.
Trading on the net DOES have technical risks-anyone else had similar?
 
kiwi,
Thanx 4 ur reply,
I'm an Option player and most of my strategies are on margin from day one [i wouldn't xpect u to understand if ur not into options]
There was other points in my last post you did not reply to.
Let me ask you a couple of questions pls: If i did a short naked put on the ftse [ATM position]how much marg would IB ask? and how much grace time would they give me to pay the additional marg if position goes deep ITM? or would they close my position immediately?

My broker is uk based and here are just a few things about their service:
1. Marg charged by them is ZERO on all strategies. Only pay marg to the clearing hse at their rate and no addition made by brokers.
2. All trades are recorded over the phone, so if an error is made and there are losses of x amount of £'s it can be traced thro the tapes.
3. All trades are repeated over the phone to make double sure that details are correct.
4. If a option strategy is on marg call there is 3 days grace to pay up. The bonus of this is that mrkts can change in my favour and the marg-call is cancelled.
5. I am allowed to adjust positions if im on marg-call without first settling the marg issue.
6. They would never close the written legs if marg is not paid after the grace perriod is up. They would close the short and the longs at best price to suit the client [clients best interest]
7. They allow me to use hedge's against my options position that are NOT options related at all and this will reduce the marg by a great deal and increase my contracts volume, which in turn increase's my income [profits]
8. They specialise ONLY with derivatives trading and are not over streched with work. I like this because i can have a good chin-wag with them about the mrkts and other things too.

9. They are regelated by the FSA a stronger bodie than the US

I would like to point out that most of the above deals i negotiated after being their client for approx 1 year. They are always open to negotiations for new deals, I may soon ask for 5 days grace instead of 3, incase i need it for future use, especialy for when i'm away abroad and cant get to a phone or on the boat and experience phone probs.

Bull
 
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Windlesham1 said:
Well said Kiwi-however IB has so far : logged me out on at least 5 occasions for no discernable reason.
Prevented me from removing an 'accidental' trade ( I brushed my touch pad,and found myself about to sell a deep in the money put). A passing car with CB radio made my Dell laptop transmit a trade I was lining up.
Margin is about liffe +50% but it's hard to figure out the accounts section anyway.
Trading on the net DOES have technical risks-anyone else had similar?
Click to expand...

Wind,
I hate talking to machines/online trading. I have a hands free phone in car that is voice activated, i dont need to stop driving and dial.
I think IB also make their profits from the high marg that are paid by clients. If they had constently every week over £/$ 4 Ml on marg from clients? you dont need to a genius to work out how they are using that dosh to create additional profits.
And also remember the savings you make by paying less on comms, is in reality is a HUGE loss on the reduced number of contracts you could have otherwise made. I hope you get my drift? 🙄

If IB drop the % on marg? they would have to raise comms costs! its that simple 😆
I guess the majority of their clients only look at the savings on comms. 🙄

Bull
Its easy to fool the majority than it is to fool the minority? :cheesy: 😆
 
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bulldozer said:
Wind,
I hate talking to machines/online trading. I have a hands free phone in car that is voice activated, i dont need to stop driving and dial.
I think IB also make their profits from the high marg that are paid by clients. If they had constently every week over £/$ 4 Ml on marg from clients? you dont need to a genius to work out how they are using that dosh to create additional profits.
And also remember the savings you make by paying less on comms, is in reality is a HUGE loss on the reduced number of contracts you could have otherwise made. I hope you get my drift? 🙄

If IB drop the % on marg? they would have to raise comms costs! its that simple 😆
I guess the majority of their clients only look at the savings on comms. 🙄

Bull
Its easy to fool the majority than it is to fool the minority? :cheesy: 😆
Click to expand...

bulldozer,

future margin is determined by the exchanges. we require a performance bond that is dictated by the exchange.

since you were talking options: IB's margins are risked based and are at the levels required by the exchanges. you'll also find that IB's margin interest rates charged (and credited as well for credit balances) are amongst the best in the business. These rates are clearly displayed on IB's site. We charge 50 bps over the benchmark rate if you use margin - it isn't required by the way and pay 25 bps less the benchmark for credit balances over 10K USD. The current benchmarks are 3.049% for USD and 4.745% for GBP. Check around, these are excellent rates.

yes we are strict and do not allow for grace periods (ie. the check is in the mail). This not only protect the firm but all clients and it virtually rids the risk of rogue traders wiping out the firm.

Executions: just by picking up the phone you are at a disadvantage over someone who can transmit and control their order electronically. You probably lose on speed and slippage.

are we (IB) in the brokerage business to make money - yes. However, our aim is to offer professional rates and executions to active traders. Given the volumes flowing through our system and the efficiencies of our back office, we can do it.
 
def said:
bulldozer,

future margin is determined by the exchanges. we require a performance bond that is dictated by the exchange.

since you were talking options: IB's margins are risked based and are at the levels required by the exchanges. you'll also find that IB's margin interest rates charged (and credited as well for credit balances) are amongst the best in the business. These rates are clearly displayed on IB's site. We charge 50 bps over the benchmark rate if you use margin - it isn't required by the way and pay 25 bps less the benchmark for credit balances over 10K USD. The current benchmarks are 3.049% for USD and 4.745% for GBP. Check around, these are excellent rates.

yes we are strict and do not allow for grace periods (ie. the check is in the mail). This not only protect the firm but all clients and it virtually rids the risk of rogue traders wiping out the firm.

Executions: just by picking up the phone you are at a disadvantage over someone who can transmit and control their order electronically. You probably lose on speed and slippage.

are we (IB) in the brokerage business to make money - yes. However, our aim is to offer professional rates and executions to active traders. Given the volumes flowing through our system and the efficiencies of our back office, we can do it.
Click to expand...

Def,
Thanx 4 ur reply,
You say "we" do you work for IB?
Did u understand all my 9 points i made in my previous post?
Can you match those 9 points mentioned on my post ?[number 10 post]
Getting interest payment is not really a great bonus to me. However, now that you have mentioned it most brokers pay interest on balance, my broker only pays if balance is over a certain figure. A Good Option trader is not MAINLY concerned about that little sweetner [interest payments]

Now heres a few good questions for your company: Is the British SFA BETTER than yours in the US?
Are we the investors better protected by the SFA or not. ?
Look what was/is allowed to happen with Erron, Fannie May, Freddie Mack, etc... If IB decide to do a scam? what protection would i get from the authorities in USA? would my MONEY be SAFE?

"are we (IB) in the brokerage business to make money - yes. However, our aim is to offer professional rates and executions to active traders. Given the volumes flowing through our system and the efficiencies of our back office, we can do it."

Is the commissions the main contributor to your profits? if not pls tell us how your profits are made? [i hope u dont see this as a rude question?]

I look forward to ur replies to my number 10 post aswell as this one.

Bull
 
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Quote from Def
"yes we are strict and do not allow for grace periods (ie. the check is in the mail). This not only protect the firm but all clients and it virtually rids the risk of rogue traders wiping out the firm".
=============================================================
1, If someone placed an order to SELL [write] 2,000 or more contracts ATM / ITM PUTS on the Dow on friday just before the close online, would ur system let the trade get filled? and the account had a value of say $20,000. If not ? pls xplain why in detail.

2. What happens if i had say ONLY 5 contracts naked puts on the Dow and there was a margincall of lets say just $500. what happens? Pls xplain in detail.

You never know if your answers are good and TRUE ? you may have attracted more clients with FREE publicity.

3. How easy/difficult is to open an account and then start trading NAKED PUTS? Is there a test that one would need to pass. Is it possible for a rogue trader to be accepted?

4. How much money has your firm lost last year by bad/rogue traders?

5. How many clients stop trading and leave over the course of one year? and why?

I'm not trying to be awkward/difficult, but these are the sort of questions i ask before i handed money to my brokers. I see nothing wrong by asking these type of questions, i hope u agree with me.



I look forward to your reply,
Bull
 
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Def ur quote:
"Executions: just by picking up the phone you are at a disadvantage over someone who can transmit and control their order electronically. You probably lose on speed and slippage."
======================================================================
If we both sat in ur car or mine, I bet you a thousand $ that i could get my order in faster than yours! I go to the super markets with my wife and the DELAY by others who pay by cards/electronics drives me mad. Paying by cash is a lot faster. 😆

What if your computer fails to connect or other problems at the other end? My order by phone is reccorded there's slim chance for errors and my order is filled while ur still fumbling with ur electronics! and this would normally happen when youv'e got a VERY important trade.

I'm sure many have experienced this problem with online trading! Infact i dont believe your firm would allow traders to trade by phone as you dont provide that service, pls accept my appologies if im wrong. Pls also let me know if i'm correct with my assumption about phone trading.

Bull
 
BULLDOZER - U R Wrong

bulldozer said:
Def ur quote:
"Executions: just by picking up the phone you are at a disadvantage over someone who can transmit and control their order electronically. You probably lose on speed and slippage."
======================================================================
If we both sat in ur car or mine, I bet you a thousand $ that i could get my order in faster than yours! I go to the super markets with my wife and the DELAY by others who pay by cards/electronics drives me mad. Paying by cash is a lot faster. 😆

What if your computer fails to connect or other problems at the other end? My order by phone is reccorded there's slim chance for errors and my order is filled while ur still fumbling with ur electronics! and this would normally happen when youv'e got a VERY important trade.

I'm sure many have experienced this problem with online trading! Infact i dont believe your firm would allow traders to trade by phone as you dont provide that service, pls accept my appologies if im wrong. Pls also let me know if i'm correct with my assumption about phone trading.

Bull
Click to expand...

I keep a mobile by my machine. When, on rare occasions, things go wrong I ring IB and deal by phone.
 
BY Neil,
"BULLDOZER - U R Wrong"

Are you saying that online trading is faster and more efficient than my phone.?
I could be on the bus,car,restaurant ,theatre, pub or at a friends house and the online thing beats my phone? I'll give you a bet ,i'll beat you in any of those places mentioned above.

Is there anybody out there who prefer to trade by phone than online? I must be the only one? 🙄

Bull
 
Duh..Bulldozer in a china shop

bulldozer said:
BY Neil,
"BULLDOZER - U R Wrong"

Are you saying that online trading is faster and more efficient than my phone.?
I could be on the bus,car,restaurant ,theatre, pub or at a friends house and the online thing beats my phone? I'll give you a bet ,i'll beat you in any of those places mentioned above.

Is there anybody out there who prefer to trade by phone than online? I must be the only one? 🙄

What if your computer fails to connect or other problems at the other end? My order by phone is reccorded there's slim chance for errors and my order is filled while ur still fumbling with ur electronics! and this would normally happen when youv'e got a VERY important trade.

I'm sure many have experienced this problem with online trading! Infact i dont believe your firm would allow traders to trade by phone as you dont provide that service, pls accept my appologies if im wrong. Pls also let me know if i'm correct with my assumption about phone trading.


Bull
Click to expand...

Look at the BOLD section of your statement which is inaccurate before writing inaccurate replies!!

I repeat:.."BULLDOZER - U R Wrong"......I use the phone when necessary...they DO provide such service !! - now apologise to DEF for the inaccurate part of your message
🙄 :!:
 
neil said:
Look at the BOLD section of your statement which is inaccurate before writing inaccurate replies!!

I repeat:.."BULLDOZER - U R Wrong"......I use the phone when necessary...they DO provide such service !! - now apologise to DEF for the inaccurate part of your message
🙄 :!:
Click to expand...

Neil,
Look again! you will see my apology was already in my post! 🙄

However, if ur happy with IB? pls dont leave on my account 😆 I know many who are no longer trading options with them! infact i've recieved a PM from a member today saying that he no longer uses them for options because they messed up horibly! 🙁

Bull
 
IB and low cost executions

bulldozer said:
Neil,
Look again! you will see my apology was already in my post! 🙄

However, if ur happy with IB? pls dont leave on my account 😆 I know many who are no longer trading options with them! infact i've recieved a PM from a member today saying that he no longer uses them for options because they messed up horibly! 🙁

Bull
Click to expand...
I don't trade options, I am happy with IB as are many who trade shares but I will leave you to your anti IB crusade since I and many others are finding your rantings rather tedious. Nice to extract an apology from you at anyrate🙄
 
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