Found something special..share?

[spiderbyte87]

There are many threads in this forum that have no purpose, why are you on a crusade to close this one? There is an 'Unsubscribe' function for a reason.

Amen

 

[spiderbyte87]

look after your entry's, and exits will look after themselves

I don't think you mean that a trader can rely on their edge then not worry about when and how they exit, so what exactly do you mean that the exits will look after themselves? A good entry is a part of the puzzle, but I've seen it argued, and argued successfully, that it is only a small part. No matter how good your entry is, without proper risk management and exit criteria you will eventually experience blown account syndrome. The only thing you really control once you are in a trade is how you leave the trade.

Ah well, I'm beating a dead horse I guess. I think I'll head over to BMT to try to get a real discussion going about my original intent.

 

[WR1]

I don't think you mean that a trader can rely on their edge then not worry about when and how they exit, so what exactly do you mean that the exits will look after themselves? A good entry is a part of the puzzle, but I've seen it argued, and argued successfully, that it is only a small part. No matter how good your entry is, without proper risk management and exit criteria you will eventually experience blown account syndrome. The only thing you really control once you are in a trade is how you leave the trade.

Ah well, I'm beating a dead horse I guess. I think I'll head over to BMT to try to get a real discussion going about my original intent.

maybe it should of read - profit will look after itself
but once you have good entry - based on all the criteria
exits and for good profit are unbelievably easy to find!

you obviously have nt been trading very long
and the market i think you ll find does work in absolutes - if you cant see them you have alot to learn
nothing is random - not even the shakeouts

ive been trading 7yrs, so don't really need lessons from newbies

and the call to close the thread was abit of joke
but what was the purpose of this thread again ?

unsubscribed now - so feel free to carry on your time wasting

 

[spiderbyte87]

maybe it should of read - profit will look after itself
but once you have good entry - based on all the criteria
exits and for good profit are unbelievably easy to find!

you obviously have nt been trading very long
and the market i think you ll find does work in absolutes - if you cant see them you have alot to learn
nothing is random - not even the shakeouts

ive been trading 7yrs, so don't really need lessons from newbies

and the call to close the thread was abit of joke
but what was the purpose of this thread again ?

unsubscribed now - so feel free to carry on your time wasting

7 years and still hasn't got his ego in check? Making a lot of money I'm sure.. For those who would like to have a discussion about something called trading, where there are no absolutes, please feel free to add your input.

"At the end of the day, the most important thing is how good you are at risk control." - Paul Tudor Jones

The entry will take care of everything though.........

 

[Shakone]

Arguing about whether entry, exit or money management is the most important for trading is a bit like arguing whether your heart, your brain or your lungs are most important for living.

Even those who say entry is more important might in the same statement tell you that a bad entry means your stop (an exit) needs to increase, i.e. even in entry their considerations are towards exits.

We need everything to be functioning together, and you could validly make the case that any of entry, exit or money management could be most important, but in terms of what newbies look for, what I've seen is that they typically look for a good entry and hope that will be enough. Some years later...

 

[spiderbyte87]

Arguing about whether entry, exit or money management is the most important for trading is a bit like arguing whether your heart, your brain or your lungs are most important for living.

Even those who say entry is more important might in the same statement tell you that a bad entry means your stop (an exit) needs to increase, i.e. even in entry their considerations are towards exits.

We need everything to be functioning together, and you could validly make the case that any of entry, exit or money management could be most important, but in terms of what newbies look for, what I've seen is that they typically look for a good entry and hope that will be enough. Some years later...

Well said. Funny how a person who claims to have 7 years under their belt comes out calling me a newbie and at the same time saying that the entry is the only thing that matters. Either they are the next Warren Buffett, or they (and thier ego) need to stay FAR away from trading.

 

[new_trader]

Over the many years I have been trading and investing I have only ever ended up regretting that I HAD entered the market when I did when the market doesn’t go my way. Regardless of what anyone says about which is more important the simple fact remains that there is no obligation to enter a trade, but there is every obligation to exit or manage it once you have. I can say that emotionally, I feel O.K when I have stayed out of the market when I have been unsure of my figuring, even if it proved to be right. I can’t say the same about once I am in a trade that feels uncertain. I try to reduce the angst and the stress of trading by only entering when I feel near certain that I have judged the market correctly. That is why I rank entry above everything else. As Mark Twain said “It is easier to stay out than get out”

 

[new_trader]

Arguing about whether entry, exit or money management is the most important for trading is a bit like arguing whether your heart, your brain or your lungs are most important for living.

I disagree with this analogy. The comparison is more like asking which is more important with regard to flying, the takeoff, the cruising or the landing? It's true that all are equally important because if you get any of them wrong you could end up dead. But without a takeoff there is no need to worry about the flight and the landing. Before you even proceed to takeoff you need to be sure that you are confident with your ability to fly, you know the aircraft, that flying conditions are right, you have enough fuel...etc. It's too late to worry about these once you are airborne. So the takeoff is the most important decision you can make and it requires the most deliberation. Everything else follows takeoff.

 

[ZEN archer]

Proper trade management is essential to succeed in trading, but that's not enough. It is much more difficult to regularly find good entries than to mange trades (from my experience).

To put it simply - just give me a trade with a nice entry and I'll manage it without problems (stake, exit etc.)

 

[spiderbyte87]

Good points from everyone.

There seems to be a divide amongst traders on this one, at all skill levels. While some prefer to focus on the so-called homeruns (me), others focus on small consistent gains. I personally go for 2 homeruns per day. My first trade is a more or less an intuition based punt on the open with the comfort of 1:5 average risk reward. My second is much higher probability, so even though my stoploss is increased, my risk reward is 1:6 on average. If both of those fail, I go for a third, which goes back to a tighter stoploss while still maintaining 1:5 average. The entry criteria are different for each trade, based on the period of the session in which they are played.

Once I turned the corner from thinking in terms of entry probability to overall trade probability, everything started to fall into place. To each his own.

 

[random12345]

Good points from everyone.

There seems to be a divide amongst traders on this one, at all skill levels. While some prefer to focus on the so-called homeruns (me), others focus on small consistent gains. I personally go for 2 homeruns per day. My first trade is a more or less an intuition based punt on the open with the comfort of 1:5 average risk reward. My second is much higher probability, so even though my stoploss is increased, my risk reward is 1:6 on average. If both of those fail, I go for a third, which goes back to a tighter stoploss while still maintaining 1:5 average. The entry criteria are different for each trade, based on the period of the session in which they are played.

Once I turned the corner from thinking in terms of entry probability to overall trade probability, everything started to fall into place. To each his own.

Three 1:5 discretionary trades a day? Bloody hell, what instrument is that?

 

[spiderbyte87]

Three 1:5 discretionary trades a day? Bloody hell, what instrument is that?

ES.. I'm not saying I get all three. I usually get one out of the three opportunities, the second being the most probable. If I'm lucky every once in a while I hit two in the same day.

 

[numbertea]

ES.. I'm not saying I get all three. I usually get one out of the three opportunities, the second being the most probable. If I'm lucky every once in a while I hit two in the same day.

I'm loving the modesty here. It probably isn't luck. You have to be in it to win it. :clap:

Cheers

 

[Mr Fox]

Good points from everyone.

There seems to be a divide amongst traders on this one, at all skill levels. While some prefer to focus on the so-called homeruns (me), others focus on small consistent gains. I personally go for 2 homeruns per day. My first trade is a more or less an intuition based punt on the open with the comfort of 1:5 average risk reward. My second is much higher probability, so even though my stoploss is increased, my risk reward is 1:6 on average. If both of those fail, I go for a third, which goes back to a tighter stoploss while still maintaining 1:5 average. The entry criteria are different for each trade, based on the period of the session in which they are played.

Once I turned the corner from thinking in terms of entry probability to overall trade probability, everything started to fall into place. To each his own.

Wow that is impressive. It puts my 5-8% per day system that I have discovered, and back-tested over 2 years to shame if you can manage 11% for the day.

Anyhoo I wish you the best of luck with it.

 

[spiderbyte87]

Wow that is impressive. It puts my 5-8% per day system that I have discovered, and back-tested over 2 years to shame if you can manage 11% for the day.

Anyhoo I wish you the best of luck with it.

11% would be on very good day catching two decent turns.. Averaged it works out to about 3.5% per day. Still not bad by any means, but not quite as impressive as your 5-8% (would love to see that in action )

 

[Mr Fox]

11% would be on very good day catching two decent turns.. Averaged it works out to about 3.5% per day. Still not bad by any means, but not quite as impressive as your 5-8% (would love to see that in action )

Unlike you, whom is willing to share what you do, I on the other hand would like to keep what I do under-wraps for now just incase it is something that does not work all the time.

I do ask questions on this forum, and would like to ask a few more, just to see why people cant or wont believe that systems work, and then I shall start a trading journal, and post up live trades with entry, target, and stop-loss, minutes before they are taken for all to see.

 

[random12345]

Wow that is impressive. It puts my 5-8% per day system that I have discovered, and back-tested over 2 years to shame if you can manage 11% for the day.

Anyhoo I wish you the best of luck with it.

Now now, swear on your mother's life, you have a system that live tests at 5-8% a day as well as being supported by 2 years of back-tested data , does not accumulate more contracts on losses, and isn't a 1 tick breakout? Also with what level of risk (just use the end to end d/d figure)?

 

[Mr Fox]

Now now, swear on your mother's life, you have a system that live tests at 5-8% a day as well as being supported by 2 years of back-tested data , does not accumulate more contracts on losses, and isn't a 1 tick breakout? Also with what level of risk (just use the end to end d/d figure)?

I'm not going to swear on my mothers life, nor your mothers, but I assure you I have nothing to lie about, and that is a conservative estimate as its usually over 10% per day I promise you.

It does yield 5-8% per day. Does this mean I always get 5-8% per day, No, and the reason is some days I'll just be in the market a few minutes, pick up 1%, then take the rest of the day off, to go meet friends for lunch etc, or my concentration span gives up after 1 hour that I shut down, but every night I look back at the day and see what was on the table that day.

Have I had any losing days. Ofcourse I have, yet these have always been due to human error of impatience, and jumping in earlier than possible, or greed kicking in and wanting a few extra pips.

HTH

 

[random12345]

I'm not going to swear on my mothers life, nor your mothers, but I assure you I have nothing to lie about, and that is a conservative estimate as its usually over 10% per day I promise you.

It does yield 5-8% per day. Does this mean I always get 5-8% per day, No, and the reason is some days I'll just be in the market a few minutes, pick up 1%, then take the rest of the day off, to go meet friends for lunch etc, or my concentration span gives up after 1 hour that I shut down, but every night I look back at the day and see what was on the table that day.

Have I had any losing days. Ofcourse I have, yet these have always been due to human error of impatience, and jumping in earlier than possible, or greed kicking in and wanting a few extra pips.

HTH

I normally try and encourage optimism, but your losing days only being down to human error....? That would be highly unusual and make you the greatest trading savant who ever lived. Paul Rotter sit down.

Also note you are returning 1800% a year non compounded on working days. Truly compounded on the same % exposure the number is of course insane. Trade size simply doubled quarterly you're looking at around 8000%.

That's... a lot.

 

[spiderbyte87]

Unlike you, whom is willing to share what you do, I on the other hand would like to keep what I do under-wraps for now just incase it is something that does not work all the time.

I do ask questions on this forum, and would like to ask a few more, just to see why people cant or wont believe that systems work, and then I shall start a trading journal, and post up live trades with entry, target, and stop-loss, minutes before they are taken for all to see.

I'm not really revealing anything specific about my signals, so I don't really feel like it's a problem. When you gonna start a journal?