NVP
Guest Author
- Messages
- 37,936
- Likes
- 2,144
NVP
Guest Author
- Messages
- 37,936
- Likes
- 2,144
1) Throw a few MA's together
2) hide it in an impenetrable indicator with bells and whistles
3) think up a dumbass name for the Product
4) put a "suit" in a few videos who can sell....if he understands trading its a bonus
start viral marketing , forums , internet , youtube , review sites
wait for a trend in the market and then post all your "sucessful" trades across all channels....get the sales then hang on for dear life and give little back in refunds...
wait for next big trend and repeat process....
It works for VantagePoint (arnt they called snowstorm now ?)....and every other MA based trend system in the universe....
Next..... :smart:
N
wackypete2
Legendary member
- Messages
- 10,211
- Likes
- 2,058
You do realize this is an old thread 
Peter
Peter
trendie
Legendary member
- Messages
- 6,875
- Likes
- 1,433
some friendly advice ?
walk away now.....This forum bites and you are now attracting attention...walk away now
Step away from the Forum
N
No, no, no. Quite the opposite.
Why not just post the forecasts here as a starting point?
Then, after a while, the webinar uptake will reflect your wider forecasting ability.
I appreciate the advice, and am no stranger to forum carnage. Same thing happens at "Big Mike's". I'd rather lose the company and walk away than let people destroy the reputation of 3 men's life's work, based on some infantile need to tear down someone because a jackass tool vendor bit them in the past when they were in their "buying" phase.
People actually read these posts. If my son reads this post when he's older, I'd rather him see I stood up and failed defending our company, vs. sitting there silent (and guilty) and let people who've never even spoken to us, watched us, or spoken to someone who has, trash us.
It won't matter in a few years anyway. Someone will spend 30 hours, and crack our "useless" code and distribute it on forums (like this one) where people will celebrate it's "predictive power" under a new "hacker name" like "Time Cycles Exposed".
I've been on both sides of the webinar, and there's so much junk in both communities it's easy to see why some vendors just say, "the hell with it" and turn to the dark side. There's enough greed to go around to make everyone do things they didn't think they would, starting out. I pray we never get to that point.
I spent 4 hours this morning writing emails to a guy on a Chinese website who was distributing our software for $50 on his website with his MT4 code. 1 guy in China is the difference between whether or not my kids eat, this week.
If we ever get "there", rest assured, we'll just lock the doors and walk away. For now, I stand up and say we are not "scammers", and hope that people still honor and believe in integrity, somewhere. There have to be at least a few people on this forum who do.
Michael
BackToTheFutureTrading.com
People actually read these posts. If my son reads this post when he's older, I'd rather him see I stood up and failed defending our company, vs. sitting there silent (and guilty) and let people who've never even spoken to us, watched us, or spoken to someone who has, trash us.
It won't matter in a few years anyway. Someone will spend 30 hours, and crack our "useless" code and distribute it on forums (like this one) where people will celebrate it's "predictive power" under a new "hacker name" like "Time Cycles Exposed".
I've been on both sides of the webinar, and there's so much junk in both communities it's easy to see why some vendors just say, "the hell with it" and turn to the dark side. There's enough greed to go around to make everyone do things they didn't think they would, starting out. I pray we never get to that point.
I spent 4 hours this morning writing emails to a guy on a Chinese website who was distributing our software for $50 on his website with his MT4 code. 1 guy in China is the difference between whether or not my kids eat, this week.
If we ever get "there", rest assured, we'll just lock the doors and walk away. For now, I stand up and say we are not "scammers", and hope that people still honor and believe in integrity, somewhere. There have to be at least a few people on this forum who do.
Michael
BackToTheFutureTrading.com
some friendly advice ?
walk away now.....This forum bites and you are now attracting attention...walk away now
Step away from the Forum
N
Last edited:
NVP
Guest Author
- Messages
- 37,936
- Likes
- 2,144
Hey Michael
respect to you....I'm also on both sides and again I admire your fortitude as I know the costs of running a business in both Dollars and Time
so why go through the pain ?
just trade your own accounts and dont try to kill yourself on the Vendor side......you'll get copied and plagurised mercilessly (as you predict) the same as I have to a certain degree....which is why i only leave the basics out here in the T2W cosmos and will never ever reveal the rest....unless I can secure a more watertight method of broadcasting it ....why the hell should i ?
good luck
N
I'm not a good trader, yet. I'm a great developer and engineer, though. I'm so transparent, it's not healthy I think sometimes.
No one buys a car and says, "Hey, did Mr. Toyota himself drive this car in the Indy 500?" I'm not buying it until I see him in the winner's circle holding a trophy. They say, "Man, this car does what they say it does", and buy it.
Here we are saying, "Look at this phenomenon we discovered. Here's a tool that uncovers it and displays it so that anyone can see it". Or even further, "here's what it says will happen over the next 2 days...see for yourself".
And here we are.
I do it because I believe in it, and the emails from the people who "turned the corner", who can trade and are good at it (before I am), indicate that it's helping someone somewhere. That's enough for now. Foolish? Maybe.
No one buys a car and says, "Hey, did Mr. Toyota himself drive this car in the Indy 500?" I'm not buying it until I see him in the winner's circle holding a trophy. They say, "Man, this car does what they say it does", and buy it.
Here we are saying, "Look at this phenomenon we discovered. Here's a tool that uncovers it and displays it so that anyone can see it". Or even further, "here's what it says will happen over the next 2 days...see for yourself".
And here we are.
I do it because I believe in it, and the emails from the people who "turned the corner", who can trade and are good at it (before I am), indicate that it's helping someone somewhere. That's enough for now. Foolish? Maybe.
Hey Michael
respect to you....I'm also on both sides and again I admire your fortitude as I know the costs of running a business in both Dollars and Time
so why go through the pain ?
just trade your own accounts and dont try to kill yourself on the Vendor side......you'll get copied and plagurised mercilessly (as you predict) the same as I have to a certain degree....which is why i only leave the basics out here in the T2W cosmos and will never ever reveal the rest....unless I can secure a more watertight method of broadcasting it ....why the hell should i ?
good luck
N
Re:Now how do you like the flux trader...2 years later!
I am dying to hear your critique. How do you like the flux software...now that it is 2 years later??? Be honest. Personally I got my clock cleaned by trusting software vendors before, I think most of us have, so dont be shy. I am praying you are the exception or at least learned how to modify it into something profitable. Please tell us................(smile)
pakua42
I am dying to hear your critique. How do you like the flux software...now that it is 2 years later??? Be honest. Personally I got my clock cleaned by trusting software vendors before, I think most of us have, so dont be shy. I am praying you are the exception or at least learned how to modify it into something profitable. Please tell us................(smile)
pakua42
Trader 333, I am 3 years late in viewing your reply but whether true or not, Im roilling on the floor. You have a point!
I have it and it doesn't provide any advantage at all. The marketing copy on their web site says this:
"Most traders are taught to use lagging price, support, or volume indicators. These tools tell you what JUST HAPPENED. Is it any wonder why 90% of traders in the futures, Forex, equities, and commodities markets are failing?"
All the flux is doing is looking back 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks and 4 weeks at the same time period you are presently looking at. It is nothing more than an average of price excursion from a 120 period simple moving average. You can change the setting to use either 1 to 4 weeks of data. For example, if you are trading the Russell and its 11:24 am on a Tuesday the Flux is looking at 11:24 am on last Tuesday and again at that time on the previous Tuesday, etc. They are careful in their wording to make it appear like it is a prediction but its just an average based on past events... exactly like a moving average... which makes it a lagging indicator... which is what their marketing copy says is not going to help you. You should ask him or anyone who has it to show you live trades using the signals and be sure you see their entry points and exits.
Here is the low down, they shut the current price bars off so just the histograms plot on the screen but once you turn them on you see instantly what this is doing. It's novel to watch but its really no more tradable than any other lagging indicator. It fires off tons of signals some are right and some are wrong. They say in their webinars that it is anywhere from 60% to 70% right but in realtime use I'd say its more like 50% right. I have lots of indicators that are 50% right (flipping a coin comes to mind). You can apply your own methods to weed out the bad signals but I found by the time I did that I was back to my usual chart and found the Flux added no real insight. In the webinars Michael shows the group a chart and asks how accurate it looks and the response is about 70 to 75%. He then says yes it looks to be about 70% right. He then continues the webinar operating under the premise that after a visual inspection of one session by the group that the indicator is 70% right. No further inspection, no back testing no proof of concept -- its just 70% right -- and please stop questioning him. Note that if a green dot appears on a down bar but 2 bars later price went up then its considered right. They are very slippery on what is counted as a good signal. Its definitely not worth $2,000 but not completely worthless either. I'd say its no more sophisticated that any other $200 indicator I own.
People ask Michael if its so great why doesn't he just trade it himself and not deal with the hassle of selling an indicator. He says he's not a good trader but he's working on it. Well, this won't make you a good trader either but it will make him $2,000 a pop. When you ask to see a statement showing its profitability he says everyone trades differently and his success rate has no bearing on someone else's. Ok, thats fair. I would like to see some proof of concept and this is generating signals that can easily be back tested using the Power Zone signal alone and then combine the Power Zone with the HPE or AMACD right? My guess is they have done that and the results are not worth publishing. In the webinars he shows how to combine on a single chart the Power Zone signal and the AMACD signal. He says taking a trade with a double signal has a higher probability. He then adds a basic stochastic indicator and shows how you can weed out trades using the stochastic. He will then draw lines on his chart marking areas of support and resistance. Wait, you mean to tell me that if price hits resistance and the stochastic is overbought and crossing down then the Flux is right when it paints a red dot... wow really? And of course if it paints a green dot then you get short there anyways because thats what they call an inversion--really I'm not kidding. The reality is that it fires off so many lights that its meaningless and you are essentially a stochastic trader using support and resistance. Then there is the issue of timing. They claim that you can see ahead of time where a high or low is in advance. I've been watching this and going back for months on historic charts and again its right about 50% of the time in predicting a turning point in time. Keep this in mind-- if there is an FOMC announcement today and price spikes up then the flux will show that spike up again one week later at the same time. If price goes down at that point in time one week later then they call that an inversion and the flux was right and if it goes up by even a tick then the flux was again right. The flux plays no role in your trading advantage in that scenario. It reminds me of when I started adding floor trader pivots and overnight pivots and previous day open close high low levels and fibbonacci levels. Every one of those lines on my chart were honored by the market at some point. If you put enough stuff on your chart the market will eventually hit it... I think you get the idea of what I'm saying. One point to mention, they also include a workspace called the trend stalker that includes a series of levels for the days trading session. These levels look suspiciously like a set of levels I found a few years ago on a blog about trading statistics. I would recommend to anyone to check it out even though it is no longer being posted to. The guy is Dr. Steenbarger and he calculated a set of pivots that are hit by the market 70% of the time and he backs that up with data and tells you how to program them yourself for free. Check it out. Any how, the Flux being a 50% indicator will have no material effect on your current trading performance.
I use the TradeStation platform and the demonstrations and tutorials are all done in Ninja Trader. There are a fair amount of differences between the two. The TS version does not allow you to see time stamps above the histogram so you have to put your cursor over it to find the highest value and then take a drawing tool and put a mark on the highest point (Annoying). The TS version does not allow you to plot the markers on the open of a bar, only on the close. The TS version does not plot the "Inversion" histogram so when the market goes against you, you have to mentally flip your orientation in your mind on how to read the indicator (Annoying). There are a few more differences and I'll edit this post to include them should I remember more. The TS version is lacking but still costs $2,000.
Which leads me to my final observation. In the last webinar I attended I had asked MIchael to show some proof that the flux was a profitable system -- he was not able to do anything but show a chart with green and red dots. He takes a drawing tool and visually ticks off the good signals. If you press him he gets easily frustrated and doesn't like to be questioned. He really dislikes people that don't immediately believe him. After a few exchanges (he nor I ever used profanity by the way) he booted me out of the webinar. My browser is set to reload on a disconnection so in 1 minute I was back in again. At that time he was showing the group a powerpoint slide on a mathematical assumption. This was in response to my questioning the profitability of the system. After I saw that slide a lightbulb went off in my head about what these guys are up to. Michael claims to be an engineer (I don't know that there is any proof of that and I don't know what kind of engineer he is, civil, railroad, etc.) so lets assume he is an engineer. He would have a basic understanding of calculating probabilities.
So here is the exact text from the slide he posted:
"Let's say both systems (A&B) give long and short signals such that a long signal means the market will hit the +X before it hits the -X.
It follows that on occasions where both systems gave a signal, we have the following probabilities:
Market moved X:
A won, B won = 0.6*0.6 = 0.36
A won, B lost = 0.6*0.4 = 0.24
A lost, B won = 0.4*0.6 = 0.24
A lost, B lost = 0.6*0.6 = 0.16
So, 36% win, 16% lose, 48% no trade because the system disagreed.
This leaves us with a win rate for the combined signal of 0.36/(0.36+0.16) = 0.69. A small
improvement in hit rate, but a big reduction in the number of trades.
We can check this with some other figures:
If both systems gave a hit rate of 50%, then we get 0.25(0.25+0.25) = 0.50. No improvement because
50% is what you would get at random anyways. Neither system is providing an edge.
If one system gave 100%, then we get 0.6(0.6+0.0) = 1.0. You can't improve on 100% win rate."
All these guys seem to be doing is saying that you can take any two unrelated signals and get a 69% win rate. So effectively you could use the MACD and a volume indicator for example and get the same probability as the flux.
I'm sure Michael will jump in here to tell you I'm all wrong. In the webinar he blurted out "send me your number" thinking I would just go away. I entered my cell phone number right away and said call me, repeatedly. He declined to call, he booted me out of the webinar twice. My system reloaded me into the webinar for a third time. I told him what my system was doing and quietly left. I deleted GoToMeeting from my computer. End of story. I'd think long and hard about the Flux if you are in the market.
If you search the internet there are some claims that these guys did not program the indicator but bought it from a guy who programmed it and sold it for $200. These claims also state that they are not traders or programmers but a sales group. That is certainly possible but I have not seen anything that would prove that. I mention this because when you listen to them you should be aware of infomercial - type language. They don't sound like traders talking about trading models.
I'd be happy to share more of my experiences so you can make up your own mind. Just send me a message.
"Most traders are taught to use lagging price, support, or volume indicators. These tools tell you what JUST HAPPENED. Is it any wonder why 90% of traders in the futures, Forex, equities, and commodities markets are failing?"
All the flux is doing is looking back 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks and 4 weeks at the same time period you are presently looking at. It is nothing more than an average of price excursion from a 120 period simple moving average. You can change the setting to use either 1 to 4 weeks of data. For example, if you are trading the Russell and its 11:24 am on a Tuesday the Flux is looking at 11:24 am on last Tuesday and again at that time on the previous Tuesday, etc. They are careful in their wording to make it appear like it is a prediction but its just an average based on past events... exactly like a moving average... which makes it a lagging indicator... which is what their marketing copy says is not going to help you. You should ask him or anyone who has it to show you live trades using the signals and be sure you see their entry points and exits.
Here is the low down, they shut the current price bars off so just the histograms plot on the screen but once you turn them on you see instantly what this is doing. It's novel to watch but its really no more tradable than any other lagging indicator. It fires off tons of signals some are right and some are wrong. They say in their webinars that it is anywhere from 60% to 70% right but in realtime use I'd say its more like 50% right. I have lots of indicators that are 50% right (flipping a coin comes to mind). You can apply your own methods to weed out the bad signals but I found by the time I did that I was back to my usual chart and found the Flux added no real insight. In the webinars Michael shows the group a chart and asks how accurate it looks and the response is about 70 to 75%. He then says yes it looks to be about 70% right. He then continues the webinar operating under the premise that after a visual inspection of one session by the group that the indicator is 70% right. No further inspection, no back testing no proof of concept -- its just 70% right -- and please stop questioning him. Note that if a green dot appears on a down bar but 2 bars later price went up then its considered right. They are very slippery on what is counted as a good signal. Its definitely not worth $2,000 but not completely worthless either. I'd say its no more sophisticated that any other $200 indicator I own.
People ask Michael if its so great why doesn't he just trade it himself and not deal with the hassle of selling an indicator. He says he's not a good trader but he's working on it. Well, this won't make you a good trader either but it will make him $2,000 a pop. When you ask to see a statement showing its profitability he says everyone trades differently and his success rate has no bearing on someone else's. Ok, thats fair. I would like to see some proof of concept and this is generating signals that can easily be back tested using the Power Zone signal alone and then combine the Power Zone with the HPE or AMACD right? My guess is they have done that and the results are not worth publishing. In the webinars he shows how to combine on a single chart the Power Zone signal and the AMACD signal. He says taking a trade with a double signal has a higher probability. He then adds a basic stochastic indicator and shows how you can weed out trades using the stochastic. He will then draw lines on his chart marking areas of support and resistance. Wait, you mean to tell me that if price hits resistance and the stochastic is overbought and crossing down then the Flux is right when it paints a red dot... wow really? And of course if it paints a green dot then you get short there anyways because thats what they call an inversion--really I'm not kidding. The reality is that it fires off so many lights that its meaningless and you are essentially a stochastic trader using support and resistance. Then there is the issue of timing. They claim that you can see ahead of time where a high or low is in advance. I've been watching this and going back for months on historic charts and again its right about 50% of the time in predicting a turning point in time. Keep this in mind-- if there is an FOMC announcement today and price spikes up then the flux will show that spike up again one week later at the same time. If price goes down at that point in time one week later then they call that an inversion and the flux was right and if it goes up by even a tick then the flux was again right. The flux plays no role in your trading advantage in that scenario. It reminds me of when I started adding floor trader pivots and overnight pivots and previous day open close high low levels and fibbonacci levels. Every one of those lines on my chart were honored by the market at some point. If you put enough stuff on your chart the market will eventually hit it... I think you get the idea of what I'm saying. One point to mention, they also include a workspace called the trend stalker that includes a series of levels for the days trading session. These levels look suspiciously like a set of levels I found a few years ago on a blog about trading statistics. I would recommend to anyone to check it out even though it is no longer being posted to. The guy is Dr. Steenbarger and he calculated a set of pivots that are hit by the market 70% of the time and he backs that up with data and tells you how to program them yourself for free. Check it out. Any how, the Flux being a 50% indicator will have no material effect on your current trading performance.
I use the TradeStation platform and the demonstrations and tutorials are all done in Ninja Trader. There are a fair amount of differences between the two. The TS version does not allow you to see time stamps above the histogram so you have to put your cursor over it to find the highest value and then take a drawing tool and put a mark on the highest point (Annoying). The TS version does not allow you to plot the markers on the open of a bar, only on the close. The TS version does not plot the "Inversion" histogram so when the market goes against you, you have to mentally flip your orientation in your mind on how to read the indicator (Annoying). There are a few more differences and I'll edit this post to include them should I remember more. The TS version is lacking but still costs $2,000.
Which leads me to my final observation. In the last webinar I attended I had asked MIchael to show some proof that the flux was a profitable system -- he was not able to do anything but show a chart with green and red dots. He takes a drawing tool and visually ticks off the good signals. If you press him he gets easily frustrated and doesn't like to be questioned. He really dislikes people that don't immediately believe him. After a few exchanges (he nor I ever used profanity by the way) he booted me out of the webinar. My browser is set to reload on a disconnection so in 1 minute I was back in again. At that time he was showing the group a powerpoint slide on a mathematical assumption. This was in response to my questioning the profitability of the system. After I saw that slide a lightbulb went off in my head about what these guys are up to. Michael claims to be an engineer (I don't know that there is any proof of that and I don't know what kind of engineer he is, civil, railroad, etc.) so lets assume he is an engineer. He would have a basic understanding of calculating probabilities.
So here is the exact text from the slide he posted:
"Let's say both systems (A&B) give long and short signals such that a long signal means the market will hit the +X before it hits the -X.
It follows that on occasions where both systems gave a signal, we have the following probabilities:
Market moved X:
A won, B won = 0.6*0.6 = 0.36
A won, B lost = 0.6*0.4 = 0.24
A lost, B won = 0.4*0.6 = 0.24
A lost, B lost = 0.6*0.6 = 0.16
So, 36% win, 16% lose, 48% no trade because the system disagreed.
This leaves us with a win rate for the combined signal of 0.36/(0.36+0.16) = 0.69. A small
improvement in hit rate, but a big reduction in the number of trades.
We can check this with some other figures:
If both systems gave a hit rate of 50%, then we get 0.25(0.25+0.25) = 0.50. No improvement because
50% is what you would get at random anyways. Neither system is providing an edge.
If one system gave 100%, then we get 0.6(0.6+0.0) = 1.0. You can't improve on 100% win rate."
All these guys seem to be doing is saying that you can take any two unrelated signals and get a 69% win rate. So effectively you could use the MACD and a volume indicator for example and get the same probability as the flux.
I'm sure Michael will jump in here to tell you I'm all wrong. In the webinar he blurted out "send me your number" thinking I would just go away. I entered my cell phone number right away and said call me, repeatedly. He declined to call, he booted me out of the webinar twice. My system reloaded me into the webinar for a third time. I told him what my system was doing and quietly left. I deleted GoToMeeting from my computer. End of story. I'd think long and hard about the Flux if you are in the market.
If you search the internet there are some claims that these guys did not program the indicator but bought it from a guy who programmed it and sold it for $200. These claims also state that they are not traders or programmers but a sales group. That is certainly possible but I have not seen anything that would prove that. I mention this because when you listen to them you should be aware of infomercial - type language. They don't sound like traders talking about trading models.
I'd be happy to share more of my experiences so you can make up your own mind. Just send me a message.
Last edited:
Ranger,
Whenever I viewed their videos they would send me with confirm,(remmeber they can pick the markets and time frames and days that do the absolute best!), I started to see a pattern. All of their big and little dots seemed so close together, this was just scalping and youd have to hit over 2/3 just to break even with commission, spread and "other things" we cant see. I want a system that can tell me 30 min after market open which way to hold until lunchtime! Then if its wrong, what do i do from 2pm till close when it gets busy again. This seems like a toy. I wouldnt have the patience to sit in front of my screen all day and monitor all the trades even if I could make money with it. If Mike can make this work on 15 min bars and higher, maybe I'd take another look. After 15 years of looking at software, it took me all this time to realize that some of these things have value, but can never work as a black box or automated system or it would never be allowed to be sold to the public. Would you want to? I admit I was hunting for one last ditch try to save face from all the years I wasted on these gimmicks. This thing might even show a tint profit, but you wont make serious maney, IMHO.
Whenever I viewed their videos they would send me with confirm,(remmeber they can pick the markets and time frames and days that do the absolute best!), I started to see a pattern. All of their big and little dots seemed so close together, this was just scalping and youd have to hit over 2/3 just to break even with commission, spread and "other things" we cant see. I want a system that can tell me 30 min after market open which way to hold until lunchtime! Then if its wrong, what do i do from 2pm till close when it gets busy again. This seems like a toy. I wouldnt have the patience to sit in front of my screen all day and monitor all the trades even if I could make money with it. If Mike can make this work on 15 min bars and higher, maybe I'd take another look. After 15 years of looking at software, it took me all this time to realize that some of these things have value, but can never work as a black box or automated system or it would never be allowed to be sold to the public. Would you want to? I admit I was hunting for one last ditch try to save face from all the years I wasted on these gimmicks. This thing might even show a tint profit, but you wont make serious maney, IMHO.
By the way I emailed the probability slide with the formulas to a very, very well known and successful trader / programmer and here was his reply:
"The probability calculations are flawed in a way that indicates a fundamental lack of understanding of basic concepts. Don't listen to this guy's bull****, no matter how compelling it is."
"The probability calculations are flawed in a way that indicates a fundamental lack of understanding of basic concepts. Don't listen to this guy's bull****, no matter how compelling it is."
Thanks again Ranger. It appears after over 3 years on this topic both here and on other boards, if this had anything special we'd have lon ago heard about it here or on Forex Factory or somewhere. And your programmer friend doesnt sound like he has any ax to grind.
So .............LADIES AND GENTLEMEN....WILL THE DEFENDENTS ALL RISE..................."The jury finds the owners,:clap
resenters and sales people of the Re-Flux Incapacitator guilty of all charges.LOL CASE CLOSED!" (Im done anyway. Thanks boys) :clap:I found the beginning of the above formulas idiotic logic on the EliteTrader forum. I think the Flux guys were trying to force people to accept a >60% probability by using two uncorrelated signals. The problem is that all of their signals are derived from either the 120 period simple moving average and price's excursion from it or from a macd signal hence they do not have two uncorrelated signals but two highly correlated signals. It's interesting to note that in the thread below they don't care about a profitable system just a win percent greater than 50%. By the end of the thread he decides to quit the forum because not enough people agree with him... if they only knew he was referring to a two week old 120 period SMA and MACD.
To read the madness of the flux authors go here:
Forums - a trading problem for mathematicians
I'll end my review with my favorite quote from their own web site:
" if we ever start acting like the other vendors – the other trading gurus and vendors that treat traders and investors like their own personal “blood bank” – we’ve agreed to recognize it, and close up the company. "
To read the madness of the flux authors go here:
Forums - a trading problem for mathematicians
I'll end my review with my favorite quote from their own web site:
" if we ever start acting like the other vendors – the other trading gurus and vendors that treat traders and investors like their own personal “blood bank” – we’ve agreed to recognize it, and close up the company. "
Last edited:
We stopped selling vitamins and sex toys. People would send the occasional broken sex toys back for warranty exchange and no one in the office would touch them. Then we had a genius idea..."Why not sell time cycle software to traders?"
You got us, Dr. Jones. We have officially been exposed. Oh, for the record - I post forecasts for 10 markets and 4 time frames for 2 days before each webinar - and send that to 7,000 emails 2 days before each webinar. When we meet back up, our charts look like this:
2012-10-10_1520 - VideoLibrary's library
Everyone of the dots on this chart, was a specific 60M bar, known to the minute - with an anticipated directional move - that we knew the most probable duration of. This chart looks better than most of the lagging whack-a-do indicators most traders use, except our dots were known, and locked in stone 1 week before the move. But we're shams, and con artists, so don't believe anything BackToTheFutureTrading.com says about the Flux Indicator, right....but then again.....
You're more than welcome to monitor these each week, everyone. I'll either fail, or disprove every no-buy lunatic on here. Should be entertaining either way...there's no way to take it back - no way to fake what happens after the fact....right?
Flux Webinar Histogram Forecasts
If you want, I'll throw some vitamins in with your orders, no charge.
You got us, Dr. Jones. We have officially been exposed. Oh, for the record - I post forecasts for 10 markets and 4 time frames for 2 days before each webinar - and send that to 7,000 emails 2 days before each webinar. When we meet back up, our charts look like this:
2012-10-10_1520 - VideoLibrary's library
Everyone of the dots on this chart, was a specific 60M bar, known to the minute - with an anticipated directional move - that we knew the most probable duration of. This chart looks better than most of the lagging whack-a-do indicators most traders use, except our dots were known, and locked in stone 1 week before the move. But we're shams, and con artists, so don't believe anything BackToTheFutureTrading.com says about the Flux Indicator, right....but then again.....
You're more than welcome to monitor these each week, everyone. I'll either fail, or disprove every no-buy lunatic on here. Should be entertaining either way...there's no way to take it back - no way to fake what happens after the fact....right?
Flux Webinar Histogram Forecasts
If you want, I'll throw some vitamins in with your orders, no charge.
natureboy
Established member
- Messages
- 770
- Likes
- 2
Michael. Lydick. Just do some forecasts on this forum. If the tool works, it will come through in the results over 30-100 examples. Ive tried lots of different time related approaches. Flux was one of the most expensive, and I don't use it anymore... That said I'd be open to looking at it again if you can show that there is an edge there
The forecasts are updated on that page every week, for Wednesday's and Thursday's markets, forex, futures, oil, the whole range of instruments. Are you asking for additional information beyond that? If you look at the forecast I had posted for today's crude for example, look at what happened at those times, after the fact, by close today:
2012-10-10_1609 - VideoLibrary's library
I'm not sure what I need to "show" beyond that, each week...If I can show that in the most volatile market in the world (or one of) how much higher do we have to set the bar where people will at least say, "he's not a scammer, anyway"? I'm not sure how to prove the phenomenon exists any clearer. Just tired of BackToTheFutureTrading.com and the Flux Indicator being trashed when I consistently put this kind of information out each week, and show these types of results, that can't be faked, or repainted...
2012-10-10_1609 - VideoLibrary's library
I'm not sure what I need to "show" beyond that, each week...If I can show that in the most volatile market in the world (or one of) how much higher do we have to set the bar where people will at least say, "he's not a scammer, anyway"? I'm not sure how to prove the phenomenon exists any clearer. Just tired of BackToTheFutureTrading.com and the Flux Indicator being trashed when I consistently put this kind of information out each week, and show these types of results, that can't be faked, or repainted...
Dick,
The wacky but what should have been oh so obvious truth suddenly hits us all in the head with your posat about sex toys and vitamins. Brilliant! May I have your permission to send it to other forums? Just tell me if you want me to leave your name off of it.
I must say a formula that "wins" with 100% accurace since I have buyed and tried different software, platforms and systems in the last 10 years is this: If someone wants over $500 upfront for something and has no free trial, dont do it. Ever! If someone wants more than $5K for something, even with a free trial, dont do it, ever! (you have as much chance of getting your money back.....) In my experience, the people who have offered me winning methods, helpful indicators and new cutting edge products pr psychology books are people who sell a monthly membership to their trade room and actually make it very clear where you should exit and definitely where you should enter. It should always be something you can make back the money you laid out papertrading it within 1 month. NO EXCEPTIONS! Oh...and the people who dont give you any clue to what is the basis or general strategy of their newsletter or software.......run! You can learn more in mkost cases just with the free info that a brokerage firm like FXCM gives away for free every day or whats free on the internet or a few bucks in a book on amazon.com And definitely stay away from any website that has 2 beach chairs (especially if they are empty....bad omen? lol) in the sand by coll blue beach water or a luxery pool, and asks you if youd like to be done by noon every day or....get rich in your spare time. Run! Ranger 911, I see more than ever, you were right.
The wacky but what should have been oh so obvious truth suddenly hits us all in the head with your posat about sex toys and vitamins. Brilliant! May I have your permission to send it to other forums? Just tell me if you want me to leave your name off of it.
I must say a formula that "wins" with 100% accurace since I have buyed and tried different software, platforms and systems in the last 10 years is this: If someone wants over $500 upfront for something and has no free trial, dont do it. Ever! If someone wants more than $5K for something, even with a free trial, dont do it, ever! (you have as much chance of getting your money back.....) In my experience, the people who have offered me winning methods, helpful indicators and new cutting edge products pr psychology books are people who sell a monthly membership to their trade room and actually make it very clear where you should exit and definitely where you should enter. It should always be something you can make back the money you laid out papertrading it within 1 month. NO EXCEPTIONS! Oh...and the people who dont give you any clue to what is the basis or general strategy of their newsletter or software.......run! You can learn more in mkost cases just with the free info that a brokerage firm like FXCM gives away for free every day or whats free on the internet or a few bucks in a book on amazon.com And definitely stay away from any website that has 2 beach chairs (especially if they are empty....bad omen? lol) in the sand by coll blue beach water or a luxery pool, and asks you if youd like to be done by noon every day or....get rich in your spare time. Run! Ranger 911, I see more than ever, you were right.
natureboy
Established member
- Messages
- 770
- Likes
- 2
I know. I know. It's just when I used the actual tool it didn't work as well as those forecasts. Maybe it was my application of it- like I said I'm open to learning more if it works - do you use some other filter or something?
If you do forecasts on here and trade them live, it would carry more weight to your case. I only bought the flux thinking the real time use would be like those forecasts you link. In my experience that wasn't the case. The forecasts do appear good, which I why I think you must have another filter.
If you do forecasts on here and trade them live, it would carry more weight to your case. I only bought the flux thinking the real time use would be like those forecasts you link. In my experience that wasn't the case. The forecasts do appear good, which I why I think you must have another filter.
