Evening trading US shares

timaru69 said:
Interested in any tips on how it [volume] may be used to help with trading.
Hi timaru69,
I'll dip out of trying to answer this for the simple reason that that my own thinking on the subject is, at best, muddled. Until recently, I would have pointed anyone enquiring about volume in the direction of dbphoenix, who some folks regard as the T2W house guru on the subject. However, mr.marcus has rather put the cat amongst the pigeons on that front by concurring with a suggestion by another member that dbp's approach is wide of the mark. Unfortunately for us, mr.marcus does not spell out in black and white what he believes to be the correct approach. However, if you accept at face value what he demonstrated in Barjon's thread 'Wot Happened Next', one can understand why. So, my personal view is to look, read and learn from any source I can without accepting anything as given until I have convinced myself of the merit (or otherwise) of one approach or idea over another. All I am able to say with total personal conviction is that price and volume are the only essentials in order to trade profitably - everything else is a bolt-on extra, which I liken to stabilisers on a child's bike. Said appendages may provide some security in the early days, but you probably don't want to hang on to them for longer than is necessary.
Sorry not to be more helpful!
Tim.
 
Mr. Charts said:
Can't have you being lonely here, timaru :)
Here's one I've just exited with volume, Tim.
Profit $1.37 per share
Richard


Hi Richard

What a corker, guess I should hang round a bit longer.................I backed off after my bad run tonight................

Here is my HAL chart showing two trades, one winner one loser. For the first trade I usually would have put the stop under the last pivot, in this case, $31.51, however I opted for a stop at 33.56 which turned out to be the exact low before the next move up.

Jumped on again at $33.71 for a trade which turned out to be a scalp .

Other trades were TIE for breakeven and MRVL for a loss


TIMSK have included volume for you. The bars are 1 min

HAL.GIF
 
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Lovely trade indeed Mr Charts.

Was it a scanner alert that got you in the right place at the right time to allow you to take that trade ?
 
timaru69 said:
TIMSK have included volume for you. The bars are 1 min
Hi timaru69,
Thanks for the chart and the inclusion of volume. I am NOT a pundit on the price / volume (P/V) relationship - far from it. That said, if there is anything to be gleaned from the inclusion of volume, it ought to apply to most - if not all - charts. With that in mind, yours is as good a starting point as any. My (very) simplistic approach is to look for the obvious. To me, the obvious falls into three categories:
1. Unusually high volume.
2. Unusually low volume.
3. Extended periods of 'average' volume where not much appears to be happening.
Having identified these three obvious areas, I then look to see how price corresponds to the volume. For me, drawing conclusions from the relationship between the two remains more of an art than a science. Consequently,it is not easy to pass on to others. Sorry!

The first large volume bar accompanies the candle prior to your long entry at $33.66. (You exited the trade 7 minutes or so later at $33.56 - the red line) The interesting point to note here is that the candle that corresponds to the high volume isn't quite a doji, nonetheless, the open and close are fairly close together. Also, the range of the candle is not that remarkable which, broadly speaking, can lead one to conclude that there is a balance between buyers and sellers mas o menos. So, your long trade on the breach of this candle was relatively high risk from my perspective. I say 'my perspective', because I've no idea what lengths you've gone to in order to examine the probability of a favourable outcome from this particular setup. Hopefully, you are aware of the risks and, more importantly, the likelihood of a profitable trade. Anyway, the point is that the price action and accompanying volume on the candle prior to your entry would not have filled me with much confidence, had I been in your shoes. I know, all this is easy to say in hindsight. timaru - I must emphasise - I am NOT in any way criticising your trade!

Your second long entry at $33.71 is following two almost identical red (bear) candles, the second of which has increased volume. The probability of success is increased here for two reasons - well, three, actually. Most notably, with the benefit of hindsight, I can see that it was successful! :cheesy:
Okay - seriously - you have the higher low from the red stop line shown on your chart at $33.56. The immediate short term trend is up and the higher low is classic T.A. suggesting that the current trend remains in tact and that higher prices are probable in the immediate future. Coupled with this, is that volume has increased - albeit marginally - from your earlier exit candle at $33.56. Although the volume has gone up, price has remained static. Here we have increased activity indicated by volume. However, there is no net result, indicated by a strong movement in price. Not YET, that is!!! For me, personally, you went long one candle too soon. The candle after your entry is the one I'd be looking for in this trade. It clearly shows that buying pressure outweighs selling pressure and that, for the time being at least - the bulls have the upper hand. As a small aside, had you waited, you could have got a marginally better entry on the breach of this candle at around $33.68. Additionally, for those that are wedded to their moving averages, your long term average (blue line) is now flat, whereas, it was still descending at the time of your first trade.
The price break out above $33.70 is accompanied by huge volume. Interestingly, volume drops off noticeably after this and yet, price advances with gusto. There's a little consolidation area just below the $33.90 mark, following which volume drops off sharply as price approaches the round number at $44.00. Your exit is as close to perfection as one could wish for. I take my hat off to you, sir! I don't know whether or not you allowed volume to influence your decision but, looking at the chart, it nonetheless confirmed the decision you took to exit the trade. I should add, that I believe that price can advance on declining volume and vice versa. Unfortunately, there is no simple formula of 'big volume = price advance' or, conversely, 'declining volume = price slump', etc. If only it were that easy!
Anyway, thereafter, the price drops back down to your red exit line on your first trade at $33.56 where, clearly, if finds support. There is an unimpressive spike in volume just after 8.00 o'clock mark at 20.00hrs which goes nowhere. More importantly for prospective or existing bulls is the response by price to this half hearted effort. The bears fail to capitalise on their opportunity to flood the market with supply in order to force price below your red line. To me, this suggests that the pro's have got their fill of this stock and are not interested in seeing the price drop any further for them to accumulate more shares. No, they have their fill and are waiting to sell into a price advance for a profit. Their patience is rewarded following what amounts to a triple bottom and, finally, increased volume accompanied by an upward surge in price after 20.30. Suffice to say, if you had drawn your support line at the time of your very first trade, it would have proved very useful for subsequent trades later in the day. Your red support line, with accompanying price and volume, provides many useful insights into the psychology of the traders buying and selling this stock. Moreover, potentially it helps those that are alert, astute and attuned to the P/V dynamic to turn a profit. I readily admit that all this conjecture is relatively easy with the benefit of hindsight and that to do it in real time is an altogether different ball game!
Just my 2p worth,
Tim.
 
"yacarob1",
Welcome to t2w. The answer to your question is that as well as other means I also use a scanner.

samtron,
Check out NTAP which gave me nice profits.
Also AFFX though I didn't trade that one.

timsk,
I shall read your post in detail and reply to you next week - I'm very pushed for time in the next few days
Richard
 
timsk said:
Hi timaru69,
Thanks for the chart and the inclusion ............................altogether different ball game!
Just my 2p worth,
Tim.

Hi Tim

Great Post, will need to digest it and get back on specific's.

To be honest I find it hard enough just to focus on price and Level II to make my trade descions, volume would be another complication at this point of my daytrading career.

I think that you are right re the first entry although I in the two cases where I had losing trades on both times I was stopped out right at my stop level. If I had stuck with my stop under the last pivot rule (RR being acceptable) both would have been good trades. We live and learn, trip up and get back on our feet again...................

Unfortunately BT's new 8mb broadband service has collapsed and no amount of yelling,pleading , pulling out hair or screaming at walls can fix the issue so my trading activity has been curtailed. they even had the gall to tell my that i couldn't downgrade to my old realiable 2 mb connection.

Anybody know of a good , realiable broadband provider with customer service that actually tries to help you resolve a problem?

Cheers

Andrew
 
I've heard other people moan about BT 8mb so I've stuck with 2mb. I'm only a couple of hundred yards from the exchange and the speed on this Dell 9400 is very good with no lumpiness on level 2 at all.
Nice trades this evening on WERN LEND and RCII
Richard
 
Hi again

Ok so BT managed to get me a service back (amazing what happens you you phone their HO and ask to speak to the CEO)

Saw an oppurtunity in GILD, while the entry wasn't as good as what I would like and the exit was probably a bit earlier than I would have liked still managed to get a 49c run.

As I said earlier I am not really into volume yet but was interested in any thoughts/comments that people may have in the volume shown in this chart?

Cheers

AC
GILD.GIF
 
Here's a mid afternoon trade which failed.
If something is not going to follow through I simply exit.
Richard
 

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Here's another, MXIM bought at 28.33
Richard
 

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.........and sold 28.85 47 minutes later for $520 profit
Richard
 

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To the mods:
I'm posting a screen shot from my site here to prove that my group get alerted to the stocks I am looking at BEFORE I take the trades. IT IS NOT AN ADVERT AS MY PRIVATE SITE, ALTHOUGH SUBSCRIPTION , IS BY PERSONAL INVITATION ONLY. IT IS NOT OPEN TO JUST ANYONE.
The lies and innuendoes being spread by two or three members of this site hiding like cowards behind their nicks/multi-nicks is pretty sad. They won't drive me away from here and it's water off a duck's back, but they really ought to get a life for themselves. Other members can recognise them easily enough. They are either insufferably boastful, arrogant and sanctimonious OR NEVER POST THEIR OWN TRADES, they just get their kicks dissing others. Pathetic.
Some even have God on their side........wow ! Heavens preserve the rest of the world from those "With God On Their Side".
I normally ignore the hairy palm brigade because I have no respect for them and don't lower myself to respond to their lies. However, several of my group have persuaded me that just occasionally I should provide something so all the vast majority of the membership can make up their own minds.
So, two shots; one an image from my site - check out the times against the other image which is the broker screen of those trades I posted last night.
Please mods, leave the images for people to decide for themselves.....
Richard
 

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........and here is the broker execution screen for those trades.
Richard
 

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An Inspiration . . .

Great stuff Richard, as ever!

Anyone who has ever paid even a passing interest in any post of mine on T2W will know that I am a fan of Mr.Charts / Richard. I make no bones about it; never have. Richard is, IMO, one of the five or so best traders to offer their knowledge, experience and market insights to the T2W membership. Without him, my commitment, personal belief and determination to carry on in the face of adversity would have subsided a long time ago. His critics - and there are a fair few of them - will argue that he is little more than a parasite feeding off the T2W membership. Maybe, just maybe, there is some truth in this. Suppose a significant percentage of his annual income is derived from coaching? So what, he is a good coach. Premiership football fans don't moan about the salaries paid to club coaches - so long as they deliver the goods. And Richard delivers the goods; he shows people precisely how he trades. His critics will argue that few of his students become successful day traders following his coaching. I should know, I am one of them. However, I am not at my screen during market hours, I do not have a live intra day data feed or a fully funded brokerage account. Very obviously, the newest 'newbie' would accept that it would not be fair for me to pin my 'failure' as a trader on Richard and his coaching methods. Yet, amazingly, this is precisely what many of his critics do. Dohhhh!

There are various 'experts' on this site (definition of an expert: 'ex' = a has been and a 'spurt' = a drip under pressure) with hundreds if not thousands of posts to their name, but few have dared to post a single trade. Over the years, yes years, Richard has posted hundreds of trades with charts showing his entry and exit and, very often, a screen shot from his broker showing the level II and T&S screen. As a public archive, his trading record must rank amongst the largest and most successful in the world. I simply do not understand those members who persist in trying to undermine and discredit his abilities and achievements. It makes no sense. It's akin to RADA students 'dissing' Anthony Hopkins or Judi Dench. Wake up peeps, you can learn from these people! I suspect that It boils down to petty jealousy and resentment, borne out of frustration. I can relate to this myself, as I openly admit that I am not yet consistently profitable. It is frustrating watching someone else succeed day after day and make good money when you struggle to even break even, let alone make a profit. To my mind, It's all a question of attitude. Some people resent the success that Richard and others enjoy because they can't achieve it for themselves. Others applaud Richard's achievements because he demonstrates that trading for a living is doable, it is possible - with effort and good ol' fashioned elbow grease. No prizes for guessing which camp I belong to!

I make no apology whatsoever to any of Richard's detractors who, I dare say, will find this post puke making in the extreme.
:cheesy:
Tim.
 
timsk wrote:

There are various 'experts' on this site ......... with hundreds if not thousands of posts to their name, but few have dared to post a single trade.

Thousands of posts!? My God, where do they get the time? :eek:

Cheers

Mayfly
 
timsk said:
Great stuff Richard, as ever!


I make no apology whatsoever to any of Richard's detractors who, I dare say, will find this post puke making in the extreme.
:cheesy:
Tim.

A very convincing post, Timsk. I'm not an avid follower of any gurus, just read what I think may be interesting, but I believe that you have written something that should be read by all of us. It is easy to criticise and we should all try to make the site more interesting, ourselves, rather than pick on others. Whatever the motives of posters, if they are useful contrbutors to a thinking
community, then they deserve our thanks.

Split
 
Supporters and Detractors

Lets not go round the merry go round again.
those that support will support and those that don't believe will not believe.
Its an emotional thing people - if you make your living in this business ( and lord knows it is THE toughest business) some people do not want success shoved in their face. It only makes their failure hard to swallow. But of course it's only failure if you don't learn.

I used to be one of those failures. Personally I have limited knowledge of Richard's methods (I have not done his course) - but he does post charts and logs. In my humble opinion that makes him a very rare individual. I enjoy the education even if sometimes I totally get it wrong.
If he were a liar (which is implied on occassions) then I would be vociferous in my call for him to be defrocked - but he isn't.
Ok - on with the show.
:D
 
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