dowindicator?

[otctrade]

Alexadav, Thanks for the reply. I agree with what you said... they seem to have stuck to their same entry criteria for the most part, while adapting for more aggressive trade management re: exits during the crazy volatility as of late in order to protect profits. When volatility goes back down, I'm expecting they'll go back to purely end of day / DI value exits like they used to. That way, we may get some truly large trade gains again (although lately it's been very good nonetheless).

I was expecting replies calling me a liar or something, since I've vouched for the profitability of a system which sounded to be up for debate here, but I am honest as they come... up 100%+. This is the first trading method which has been profitable over a longer time for me, and I'm pleased after 12 months. I am overall impressed, and am going to stick with it.

Good luck in 2009! I'm going to be working a fixed-ratio account/growth management tactic this year, now that I've got some gains as a cushion. If the winning ratio holds true to form, then it should allow the profits to work for me. I counted the trades for 2008... 32 trades, 20 winners (and I'm counting that asterisk trade in March as a loss, since the 600+ point win they show only came after the eminis stopped out overnight). That's 63% winners; very good for any system IMO.

 

[Dr_Jones]

Ok I would stay away from this one now.They have just changed the rules again.Now people have to use there broker, and have the signals executed by that broker, without any intervention from the account holder.
They are no longer offering these signals to people to trade themselves.
And are even giving people there money back who trade the signals themselves.
This is very fishy and looks like some bizarre attempt for them to covertly get everyone's capital under there own control.
Basically they are charging people for the service, yet not giving people the signals, only giving the signals to there broker, to trade peoples accounts.
Be warned.

 

[otctrade]

DI Changes - Member Comment

DrJones...

I think you may be off base. I understand your viewpoint, but I've actually done better since switching to the trade-assist method. The reason they had to make the change is because they discovered some unethical people (no surprise there) were re-selling or distributing their signals to non-members since the signals were being given on the members website in real-time. IMO, the change they announced is simply smart.

You think Mirus Futures (the broker) is in on some scheme to pool everyone's capital, so they can get shut down by the NFA for fraud? I highly doubt that. But your fear is understandable.

 

[Encantador]

DrJones...

I think you may be off base. I understand your viewpoint, but I've actually done better since switching to the trade-assist method. The reason they had to make the change is because they discovered some unethical people (no surprise there) were re-selling or distributing their signals to non-members since the signals were being given on the members website in real-time. IMO, the change they announced is simply smart.

You think Mirus Futures (the broker) is in on some scheme to pool everyone's capital, so they can get shut down by the NFA for fraud? I highly doubt that. But your fear is understandable.

What`s the minimum amount you need in your account to use the trade assist?

 

[otctrade]

Encantador, It's on their website - $15K. It used to be $10K, but the NFA noticeably increased the initial margin requirement on futures contracts (last fall).

 

[Dr_Jones]

DrJones...

I think you may be off base. I understand your viewpoint, but I've actually done better since switching to the trade-assist method. The reason they had to make the change is because they discovered some unethical people (no surprise there) were re-selling or distributing their signals to non-members since the signals were being given on the members website in real-time. IMO, the change they announced is simply smart.

You think Mirus Futures (the broker) is in on some scheme to pool everyone's capital, so they can get shut down by the NFA for fraud? I highly doubt that. But your fear is understandable.

Ok basically, you are now paying for signals, you are not getting.
Do the math on that?
$595 for 3 months, of 24 hours late signals.<<< What are they selling you now?
Regardless of why, it is a signal service, not managed accounts.
They are trying to turn it into managed accounts, under there own control, without the legalities involved.
I find that, dishonest.
I dont think Mirus futures is in on anything.
They just execute what there customers tell them.
But I believe the DI, forcing people to use Mirus, with a live account, is a solicitation to trade futures.
Because, you cant follow it on a demo.Mirus wont execute demo trades for you.
Think about this, the Dow indicator people, now know, exactly when a certain amount of contracts, and what direction, are entering the market, to the second.
Can you tell me, if it was like 2000 contracts, how they could not make instant money on this?And no one else now, is getting this information but THEM.
They have not even changed the risk warning on there page.
They still state the site is for "informational purposes only".
Yet in order to use the signals, you need to have a live account traded in the futures market.
I think that's going to get them, and possibly Mirus, into a little bit of trouble.

 

[alexadav]

Not Unusual

Ok basically, you are now paying for signals, you are not getting.
Do the math on that?
$595 for 3 months, of 24 hours late signals.<<< What are they selling you now?
Regardless of why, it is a signal service, not managed accounts.
They are trying to turn it into managed accounts, under there own control, without the legalities involved.
I find that, dishonest.
I dont think Mirus futures is in on anything.
They just execute what there customers tell them.
But I believe the DI, forcing people to use Mirus, with a live account, is a solicitation to trade futures.
Because, you cant follow it on a demo.Mirus wont execute demo trades for you.
Think about this, the Dow indicator people, now know, exactly when a certain amount of contracts, and what direction, are entering the market, to the second.
Can you tell me, if it was like 2000 contracts, how they could not make instant money on this?And no one else now, is getting this information but THEM.
They have not even changed the risk warning on there page.
They still state the site is for "informational purposes only".
Yet in order to use the signals, you need to have a live account traded in the futures market.
I think that's going to get them, and possibly Mirus, into a little bit of trouble.

This change just brings them in line with the thousands of other systems that 'lease' there systems for a monthly fee, by allowing you to autotrade these at there specified brokers eg Strategy runner. The only difference is with SR there is a larger range of brokers to choose from, but the legal and practical issues are the same.

 

[otctrade]

I think Alexadev is correct, but I'm not a lawyer. The Mirus Letter of Direction covers the necessary legal bases, I believe. As far as risk, though, in that nobody else gets the signals in real time... I'm fine with that, since even IF someone does scalp some profits on the large block orders being placed per DI's signals... it does not impact the overall direction of the market and hence the trade results to any impactful extent. Because remember, the DI trades are based on the overall market movement and are anywhere from 1 to 5 days per trade. A 2000 block order will do nothing to impact the direction of "the market". Also ,the liquidity on the S&P emini is HUGE (5-10x that of dow emini), and that's where all new members have to be (not the less liquid Dow emini).

I'm pretty happy with my 100%+ account growth results so far. I'll let that be my guide, rather than worry or fears. A registered broker is handling my trades, which I'm Ok with, and the givers of the DI signals have produced great results for me so far.

I will say this, though... if I was NEW to the system and didn't have a friend who'd been in it for a while to vouch for it, then I would be wary of these changes. But seeing as how I have more than a year of history with great results, I will sit back and be fine with the changes. I can see where DrJones is coming from, for sure.

 

[Dr_Jones]

Well no, I believe its a little different.
An auto trading system, you have to setup on your pc, on your platform.
And turn it on yourself.
In this case, you have Dow Indicator, more or less soliciting people to sign up to Mirus.
And have a live trading account executed by the broker.
Which is a solicitation to trade a security.
You cant trade it on a demo for example, you cant paper trade it, if you want the signals you must fund an account and have it live traded by the broker.
I believe this is illegal.Although Mirus isn't the ones actually doing it.
Dow Indicator is putting them in a predicament by forcing this on people.
I have seen people with systems like this before, do this.
And the broker ended up being told by the NFA, that they cant be affiliated with something like that.
At the end of the day, legally, there has to be a choice whether its traded live or not.
When Dow Indicator puts on there page, this is for informational purposes only, it is not a solicitation or undertaking for you to trade any security's.
Now, clearly, that is no longer true.

 

[otctrade]

Dr Jones, I will have to disagree. But you should look into it yourself, because I'm not 100% sure and am not an expert on such things. I believe that the Mirus Letter of Direction covers the necessary bases and the DI disclaimer covers their butts on the website.

It's not as if DI forces anyone to join. They are saying, here's our system... join if you want. It's voluntary, which I would guess means they aren't forcing anything on anybody. You either accept the terms and join, or you opt not to.

But if you get other definitive info on this, please share it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see it.

 

[otctrade]

Update: In the vein of objectivity... here's a quick update. As of this moment, DI is negative on the year for 2009 (4 months). Up nicely over the last 16 months, but negative over the last 4 months. The system is not handling this irrational unique market (never before seen conditions?) very well at all. They aren't losing their shirts, but not doign well either.

 

[otctrade]

Another Update: Looks like they may have regained their footing a bit, after adjusting to use a bit of a lower risk approach. Smaller targets, quicker trades, to better navigate this wacky news-driven unpredictable market. I think they've won 6 of the last 10 trades, or something like that. Losing track, but hopefully stabilized after a pretty noticeable drawdown. Catch you later, I probably won't post unless someone has a question.

 

[otctrade]

I take back my last post. haha So far on the revisions, the total $ lost is still equal to or greater than the total $ won. Only time will tell with this thing; not doing so well in 2009.

 

[otctrade]

UPDATE: Since mid September, after a few smart system tweaks (in my opinion), Dow Indicator's trading record is 7-1-1 with a net profit of around $2000 on one S&P emini contract. FYI, they are also going to allow self/discretionary trading via their signals again. They announced that over the weekend. Folks won't be forced to do the Mirus Trade Assist unless they prefer to.

(I originally said $1000 net profit; my mistake, it's actually more around ~$2K net profit since mid Sept on one contract)

 

[otctrade]

Dow Indicator is 8-2-2, with a net profit of somewhere around $2300 (depends on which instrument you use), by my count since the system tweaks were implemented around mid September.

 

[Encantador]

Dow Indicator is 8-2-2, with a net profit of somewhere around $2300 (depends on which instrument you use), by my count since the system tweaks were implemented around mid September.

How many points does that equate to?

 

[otctrade]

Update: Dow Indicator is 17-4-3 since about mid Sept 2009. I'd lost track of this as the trade assist allows us to participate w/out making the actual trades. But that's an excellent record over the last 5 months! Six wins in a row, as of today. Nice recoup from the drawdown in 2009.

The track record for the trade assist can be found here: http://www.mirusfutures.com/futures_brokers_trade_assist_es_perf.htm

Encantador, for Dow emini divide the $$ amount by 5. For S&P emini, divide the $$ amount by 50 and that'll tell you how many points it corresponds to. For example, a $550 point winning trade on the S&P emini = 550/50 = 11 point win.

 

[otctrade]

Quick update in case anyone still ponders the DI system... they're 23-7-4 since mid Sept 2009 when the system was supposedly tweaked, and since the earlier 2009 drawdown they had. I don't know how many net points that equates to, but it's very favorable. Check the Mirus track record page and you can calculate how many points they've netted.

 

[NTrader12]

I actually signed up for their service... so far they have had one good trade (20 pts) and one bad trade (-10) so doing pretty well... anyone been on the service for a while?

 

[buzzee]

Last year they did really bad.
They actually now removed the past performance link from their site. I used to compare it with the "mirus futures assist" performance page and at one point was way out.
That’s why I think they removed it. Their page had a lot of the losing trades missing.
I used to be with em but I lost big.
I don't know how they are doing now but I wish you best of luck.