Does such thing like "Trading for a living" exist?

[vergis92]

Hi Ancoll,


Trading for a better lifestyle is possible, the problem is finding the information to help you do this , most of what is written in books and on the net is a load of nonsense so that means that you have to figure things out for yourself by spending thousands of hours at the screen.

The best advise i can give you is learn to follow the markets rather that forecast ,forecasting is for the fairground.


Once you begin to understand how the market moves then you can start to build your method and start adding some indicators to help you follow the market and not forecast it.


spxpro

in regard to stocks 'following the markets' is non sense, i have studied the US stock
markets for years and it's impossible to reliably predict them by looking at charts,
you always won't have the fundamental investor view.. if you follow them again
you are at disadvantage unless they are in strong trending mode....

Fundamental report warnings lead the market by weeks, like I saw early this year
investment banks do a lot of reasearch we cannot possible do...

they warned of a big decline to come in late Dec-early 08 , a warning relatting to interest rate cut disappointment... markets looked very strong on the charts
no way you could have foreseen it,

it's only if you follow price action based on a swing trading theory but again you will
have some false signals as fundamentals kick in from time to time and overpower
swing theory...:idea:

 

[vergis92]

Warrent Buffet says, never invest in things you don't understand and I think he's got a hell of a point, we can see two identical rallies in the US markets, identical on the charts but with completely different causes underneath them, it's hard to figure out investors minds!

 

[ANCOLL]

Except UKtradegirl,
I assume others havent been trading for living yet..

guess trading for living is really that hard

 

[vergis92]

The tough part is that we are being told a lot about discipline and mechanical systems when in fact
we completely ignore fundamentals, particularly short term economic indicators, markets are not
mechanical in nature, most of the books I have read are completely wrong

 

[spxpro]

in regard to stocks 'following the markets' is non sense, i have studied the US stock
markets for years and it's impossible to reliably predict them by looking at charts,
you always won't have the fundamental investor view.. if you follow them again
you are at disadvantage unless they are in strong trending mode....

Fundamental report warnings lead the market by weeks, like I saw early this year
investment banks do a lot of reasearch we cannot possible do...

they warned of a big decline to come in late Dec-early 08 , a warning relatting to interest rate cut disappointment... markets looked very strong on the charts
no way you could have foreseen it,

it's only if you follow price action based on a swing trading theory but again you will
have some false signals as fundamentals kick in from time to time and overpower
swing theory...:idea:

Stocks , forex , indices, gold,silver you name can be followed and traded successfully if we follow and do not forecast using nonsense such as fundamentals.

I do not doubt that fundamentals drive the market and those that have the power to influence the price use fundamentals as their base ,however most of us mere mortals do not have such power therefore we wait for the big guns to lead using fundamentals and we follow their lead.

I have studied and traded succesfully for many years and do not advocate the use of trading systems rather understand how markets work based on the impulsive corrective nature of the markets and using multi timeframe techniques to trade the direction of the market.


spxpro

 

[energytrader]

The ability to make money trading is directly related to how much capital you have to start with. I opened a standard CFD account with $25,000 in Sterling equivalent...almost 12,500 at the time....and kept losing money until I cut it off at 7 grand. Why? earning a 400% return through highly leveraged bets to make even a middle class living in London takes extraordinary luck and brains. 1 in 1000. However, when I found a certain cadence, I then started trading on a base of $500K. Earning 25% return before tax? Not easy, but with hard work and cash management discipline it's doable. Unless you have a decent base from friends and family, don't trade for a living. Best of luck.

 

[ANCOLL]

@energytrader
thank you for your posting and comment.
I appreciate it

 

[sjrider2397]

Ancoll,
I have been trading for a living for 2years now. It took me 1 year of studying and learning the market. I thought that it would be easy money, but it is not. If you take the time to actualy learn the market, learn a few very high rated setups, and have the discipline to follow your tradeing plan you will suceed. I have made enough money the last 3 months trading emini that I could take the next 8 months off, it is possible to trade for a living, but it take alot of effort to get there. once you are there it is very easy to do. I really love the volatility of the market right now, it fits me trading style perfectly.

 

[42* S]

2yrs / 5 yrs / 10yrs ? it does take considerable time and effort but it is well worth it in the end .
I have been FT at this game for over a decade the last 7 years by myself and at times it has been a long and hard road . I have made all the usual mistakes but the important thing to do is to persist . They want you to leave and to fail ! , I have done it once or twice only to be back at it a few weeks later . It has to be a true passion, steer you own ship so to speak because basically everything on the retail side is aimed at selling a product or the next best system bla bla.

This is not a complex game only it is very hard to crack it . , persistance beats resistance as they say . Find a market that you like / understand and fits you and learn it inside out , ditch all the indicators , go back to the nitty gritty learn how to read the order flow and go from there.

I was lucky enough to work on an exchange floor out of Uni and it really gives you an understanding of the nature of how things go.

Once you crack it it really is unlimited ( the oportunities ) that is , as someone has previously posted you can make a nice comfy living in this game if you dont get too greedy ! that is the hardest part to crack , I know . but once you temper this it is just a matter of plugging away , over the last few years I have made more than I ever imagined possible but at the end of the day I still do the same daily trade routinne , drink the same coffee.... , and I am happy with that .

Whenever things are going to **** I always remember my days 's as a chalky and where I started from. Anyone who tells you it is not about the money dont focus on it bla bla is full of **** ! , that is what drives you .....

Keep the hunger !

 

[Justin R - London]

Ancoll,
I have been trading for a living for 2years now. It took me 1 year of studying and learning the market. I thought that it would be easy money, but it is not. If you take the time to actualy learn the market, learn a few very high rated setups, and have the discipline to follow your tradeing plan you will suceed. I have made enough money the last 3 months trading emini that I could take the next 8 months off, it is possible to trade for a living, but it take alot of effort to get there. once you are there it is very easy to do. I really love the volatility of the market right now, it fits me trading style perfectly.

Hey mate,

Before I properly enter the market, my plan is to read up on 'trading strategies', find one (or two) I like, understand them fully, and then start trading (after a paper trading period).

My question is simple: What are the names of some famous trading strategies (and their authors) and can I read up on them on internet or are there books I can buy that skip the rhetoric and actually spell out the trading rules? I'm reluctant to go on £3000+ courses when I can study myself... only problem is, finding the right material to study!!!

 

[bryanheath]

Yes!!!

Hi,

I know people who trade for a living full time and make a good income. Your are right about the 95% statistic - it may not that high - perhaps 90% but most people do not make money trading. I have been trading for a little over a year - currencies - and before that options for several months. Right now I am making consistent profit trading currencies, but it took a year to learn it and 4 hours a day 5 days a week. But it's worth it. There is nothing else that can turn your PC into a cashpoint (ATM in the states). Ask yourself what you will be doing a year from now. If you were to commit yourself to currency trading (or commodities if that is what you really like) you could be making a profit relatively quickly I think. The thing is there are common mistakes that people make when they try this - I know because I've made all of them. If you want to know more let me know. I love to help other traders. They have helped me. Cheers.

 

[bryanheath]

I agree about fundamentals

You are dead on spxpro. Fundamentals do drive the markets but they can become a distraction to any trader - new or experienced. The reaction of the markets to the release of economic news is a perfect example when in the past few months of late '08 we have seen the reverse of what you would expect to be the reaction to the news - just because the news wasn't as bad as people thought it was going to be.

Long term charts - daily for a year or 4 hour charts over several days reflect the impact of fundamentals on the market. Technical analysis (long term charts) show the overall trend as a result of the fundamentals. I still pay attention to financial results and news but it's getting in sync with what the market is doing that really counts. That is the only trading system that works.

Best,
Bryan

 

[vergis92]

You are dead on spxpro. Fundamentals do drive the markets but they can become a distraction to any trader - new or experienced. The reaction of the markets to the release of economic news is a perfect example when in the past few months of late '08 we have seen the reverse of what you would expect to be the reaction to the news - just because the news wasn't as bad as people thought it was going to be.

Long term charts - daily for a year or 4 hour charts over several days reflect the impact of fundamentals on the market. Technical analysis (long term charts) show the overall trend as a result of the fundamentals. I still pay attention to financial results and news but it's getting in sync with what the market is doing that really counts. That is the only trading system that works.

Best,
Bryan

News releases are hard to trade, both on indices and currencies, to a swing trader
like me they don't matter, one single days news cannot possibly change the trend ,
a retracement at most, like you said bad news can be perceived as good and vice
versa, the only thing that really blows me away is investment bank advance warning reports... and I mean advance, I could have saved myself heavy losses had I known
this in my early years

 

[vergis92]

The best thing about trading for a living is you prove some negative thinkers wrong.... they are usually risk -affraid, 9-5 working people.... it's nice to get ... what's the word... vindicated?
on your plans,

I've done nothing in my life BUT risky business one after another... every time the negative
thinkers would advise against it, and everytime they were proven wrong, it's important not to
let others influence you.... the only price you will pay is maybe lose your social life, most
traders are not extrovert people, as far as I see it I don't mind not having friends in myjob,
as long as it can offer me the opportunity to travel around from country to country like
no ordinary job can offer, I will sure make the best out of it

You may find it funny, but what really got me into trading back in year 2000 was a long period of unemployment
and inactivity in my life, got sick and tired of begging one employer after another for a miserable job that
never got.

 

[sjrider2397]

Hey mate,

Before I properly enter the market, my plan is to read up on 'trading strategies', find one (or two) I like, understand them fully, and then start trading (after a paper trading period).

My question is simple: What are the names of some famous trading strategies (and their authors) and can I read up on them on internet or are there books I can buy that skip the rhetoric and actually spell out the trading rules? I'm reluctant to go on £3000+ courses when I can study myself... only problem is, finding the right material to study!!!

Justin,
I went 6 months reading books about strategies and what indicators to use. with very little success. I was able to be a break even trader. Then a friend introduced me to someone that was succesful at trading. He made about 500 us dollars a day, trading for two hours or less. He could easily make more but that it is more then he needs. His name was Mel H. After talking to Mel I paid 2800 Us dollars to sign up for training. The training was a three month subscription to a trade room and alot of training videos. It was well worth the money and the training in the videos is what made me profitable. I wish that I had not read all of those books, they were a waste of time and ultimatly just confused me. My point is, find a mentor who, for a small fee is willing to show you how he trades. Now I trade with 2 ema's to gauge trend, I do not trade ema crossovers, I then use a macd to enter the trade. (not standard settings). If wanted I will give you the website of the guy that helped me learn. I would prefer a private message, as I do not believe in advertising for people on forums. I believe he has a free trial. and he trades the emini market during the us market hours
good luck

 

[Adamus]

He made about 500 us dollars a day, trading for two hours or less. He could easily make more but that it is more then he needs.

I really can't fathom why you would want to stop after only 2 hours. If you're doing well and you're enjoying what you're doing, why stop? You can carry on for 8 hours and make 4 times as much. Or if you want to trade for x number of years and then call it a day, you can do that sooner or with more money in the bank at the end. I don't get it at all.

Or am I getting the wrong idea? Is this guy doing all his set-up and placing his orders and sorting his accounts, and then he's finished after 2 hours, even though he might be in the market with positions 24 / 7? The way you describe it I just get the idea he's scalping for 2 hours and then sitting back and counting the dosh.

 

[aliali1972uk]

Hi Paul,

I am Spreadbetting. I trade the FTSE100 index, also Gold/Silver, sometimes the major currency pairs and very occasionally US Indices.

I am not willing to risk large percentages of my capital on one trade. I am also not good at timing entry particularly well at the moment, meaning i have been stopped out a lot. Making my stop-loss larger has helped, but this is certainly not comfortable with me and not an idea for the long term (but i think is almost a necessity with the volatility at the moment). Must work on entry tactics.

UKTraderGirl

Good stratgy is the way to make money.
I am on//off spread betting since 2001 lost a lot of money and made a lot of money.
I made a target after started to make a small profit.It did helped me to pay for my house deposit.I stoped for 3 years and switch to fixed odd and made small profit in the end.
from 10/09/2008 untill 24/09/2008 I made my biggest profit 13000.I was very confidant I could make more.I was very gredy and fool.Lost my stratgy and my target and become blind by the big profit.I lost 14000 in two weeks.But never give up.I started last week to read more and spend more time for research .

 

[sjrider2397]

I really can't fathom why you would want to stop after only 2 hours. If you're doing well and you're enjoying what you're doing, why stop? You can carry on for 8 hours and make 4 times as much. Or if you want to trade for x number of years and then call it a day, you can do that sooner or with more money in the bank at the end. I don't get it at all.

Or am I getting the wrong idea? Is this guy doing all his set-up and placing his orders and sorting his accounts, and then he's finished after 2 hours, even though he might be in the market with positions 24 / 7? The way you describe it I just get the idea he's scalping for 2 hours and then sitting back and counting the dosh.

Mel has learned that life is not all about money. He owns a wonderul home, has a great family and no debt. He has decided that he would rather spend time fly fishing or visiting with his family, then to stare at a computor screen for 10 hours a day. I agree with him. The whole reason I started trading was to have more freedom to do the things that I enjoy doing. I would rather spend time with my children then work all day. Besides when you finally become profitable, you know that almost any time you had to you could make alot of money if needed. I know that he has had 25,000 dollar days before, scalping the market for 2 hours a day. The last few months I have been able to make 4-5 times my daily goal in the first 2 hours of the market. If I have nothing else to do for the day I will sometimes trade the afternoon session.
I trade to have my freedom, otherwise I would have been a doctor and worked 65 hours a week to make a good living. My advise is to enjoy your life and to not get to greedy. make enough money to enjoy the lifestyle that you want and just be happy. I know wealthy people who cannot enjoy there lives because they are always trying to get more money or more things. They work long hours and never have the time to enjoy thier money. Besides if you have no debt 120,000 dollars plus a year is not all that bad

 

[bryanheath]

Totally agree

It is not about money - it is about the life you want to live. I suppose if accumulating as much money as you possibly can before you die turns you on - then you should do that. I personally don't want to sit in front of screens all day or night to make a living. Two - three grand $ a day on average will keep me content. I look forward to moving from day trading to position trading. That will come, but later.

Best,
Bryan

Mel has learned that life is not all about money. He owns a wonderul home, has a great family and no debt. He has decided that he would rather spend time fly fishing or visiting with his family, then to stare at a computor screen for 10 hours a day. I agree with him. The whole reason I started trading was to have more freedom to do the things that I enjoy doing. I would rather spend time with my children then work all day. Besides when you finally become profitable, you know that almost any time you had to you could make alot of money if needed. I know that he has had 25,000 dollar days before, scalping the market for 2 hours a day. The last few months I have been able to make 4-5 times my daily goal in the first 2 hours of the market. If I have nothing else to do for the day I will sometimes trade the afternoon session.
I trade to have my freedom, otherwise I would have been a doctor and worked 65 hours a week to make a good living. My advise is to enjoy your life and to not get to greedy. make enough money to enjoy the lifestyle that you want and just be happy. I know wealthy people who cannot enjoy there lives because they are always trying to get more money or more things. They work long hours and never have the time to enjoy thier money. Besides if you have no debt 120,000 dollars plus a year is not all that bad

 

[aliali1972uk]

I wounder if I could do the same.
Can anybody advice about position trading instead of watching your screen the whole day?
Thanks