Do you admit to being a Trader?

[JTrader]

Hi anonymous - I know what you mean

trading is certainly higher on the scale of "contributing to society" than being a dole-bludger. If you subscribe to an ISP, charting provider - you are keeping people in a job, the same applies to the profits that your broker also makes through your business. If you pay taxes on your earnings, you are certainly contributing something. The difference is, there is no visible/tangible outcome to your work that benefits the wider world. A shelf-stacker at Tesco's, dustbin man, postman's etc. wrok output is obvious and beneficial to others.

When a person makes that jump to become a trader and look outside the remits of what society requires and has to offer in employment terms, I think that some people see trading as a sign of arrogance. That the person thinks that they are too good to do a normal job. Not that you are a good person wanting to provide the best life for your family etc.

Once you make such a step, I think that there is part of people (human nature in general), maybe even people who you would consider friends, maybe even family, who would like to see you fail and fall flat on your face..................

 

[CityTrader]

I usually say that I am a financial or market analyst working from home, implying something like a journalist but on the financial side.
To say one is a trader here in the UK implies a person of little or no integrity selling dodgy radios etc. in the pub/car boot sales - Dell boys or spivs.
To give the impression one is gambling, shocks some but evokes unpleasant reactions from others who seem to think one should give them some of the winnings or at least let them in on some secret money making scam or else ( and they aren't legitimate taxmen )

I hope I dont sound too condescending, but I'd think it has more to do with you living in Cornwall than what you call yourself. Maybe because I've always worked in The City, or maybe because my friends are more financially astute ( most dabble in the market) or more as I'd like to think it's living in S.E England, but the only question I ever get asked when having replied "trader" to being asked what I do, is " what do you trade?" - and they dont think second hand clothing down the market. Having said that the best (stock)market punter I know lives in Manchester

 

[Anonymous]

To give the impression one is gambling

If you are asked: "What do you do for a living?", and if you reply: "I gamble," to the right brains, they will usually ask further: "What do you gamble?"

I think there should be a separate thread on "How to register a Business?" for dummies, a simple no-nonsense guide on how to set up, register, incorporate a business entity, ranging from $500 to $2000 per year operating expenses (profitability not assured).

And there should be a separate thread on "How to look successful?" for dummies too, a simple no-nonsense guide on how to dress for success, where to go to mix and mingle to look successful, something like an image consultant's guide for the complete idiot.

 

[dc2000]

Interesting thread

I usually state " I trade the financial markets " or " I trade the stock market" generally received as if you had said your a dentist or work in banking etc.

I had one along the lines of the not a proper job/gambling ( smart ar*e senior something) my response
"What salary you on ?"
"£45k plus car"
" Your sh**ing me ! ( silence from all ) I would't get out of bed for that!!"

 

[charliechan]

i used to trade at liffe. then there was no issue when i said i was a trader. people would ask some more questions, then get quite excited when they realised i was 'one of those people wearing a loud jacket and waving your arms in the air'.

i now trade from home. i do exactly the same thing, but on a longer time frame and different product. people now view me as a gambler. would they consider me a professional if i was in an arcade? do i care? no, not really.

one person i know considers me to be unemployed because i dont have a 'proper job'. i laugh cos his life is going straight to the middle.

being bothered by what other people think of you is a big problem for a trader imo. ESPECIALLY if trading your own money. its an ego problem and WILL manifest itself into your trading - for the worse. perhaps you will start taking poor trades in an attempt to prove your worth to others (or yourself). confidence and innerworth are so vital.

(this is one reason why t2w makes me laugh soooooo much - all these folk pretending/lying to themselves they ar profitable traders, yet get sooooo upset if someone has a different opinion to them. do they get so upset when the market has a different opinion? having said that, i must admit i get upset too when some clown insists spread betting is a viable alternative to direct access - but lets not go there )

if you have issues with explaining the role of a trader, remind yourself of the liquidity you are providing to the market - no matter how small or large a trader you are. if there were no traders, then there could be no markets. if there were no financial markets, what an odd place this would be! it would be a lot more chaotic, and the divisions of wealth would be MUCH more unfair.of course, spreadbetters can not lay claim to this. i can understand a spread better being confused about his role in life. he has no role, other than to throw his capital down the drain. a fool and his money are easily parted!!!

 

[wasp]

But spread betting is a viable alternative to direct access!

 

[Anonymous]

Anyone thinking that SB companies have no place in the trading world should look at the example of Refco.

Then think further about concentrating all your money in any one broker or Exchange.

Then think a bit further, what happens if a trader (whether or not he really understands risk management) is a trader in an Exchange, and think about the possibility of hijackers hijacking a plane ramming directly into the building in which his Exchange happens to be situated in? If the plane doesn't hit that trader straight in his face and send him/her to kingdom go.

Probable? Maybe not. Possible? Maybe.

 

[Tuffty]

Charliechan,

You're post is interesting because on one hand you say..... "being bothered by what other people think of you is a big problem for a trader"

.....then you say "i must admit i get upset too when some clown insists spread betting is a viable alternative to direct access"

Dare I observe there may be issues here for you? When "clown' talks you seem to take it personally.

 

[charliechan]

Charliechan,

You're post is interesting because on one hand you say..... "being bothered by what other people think of you is a big problem for a trader"

.....then you say "i must admit i get upset too when some clown insists spread betting is a viable alternative to direct access"

Dare I observe there may be issues here for you? When "clown' talks you seem to take it personally.

yeah i know!!

a small group of people who refuse to accept what is staring them in the face though is different from 2 people arguing over how to read the tape for example.

anyway. dont want to divert this thread......

 

[JTrader]

How about saying that you work for, or manage a pension fund?

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

Most of the people who've asked me what I do are more interested in how I get on working from home, whether I miss the interaction of being in an office, whether Mrs O'Clubs gets fed up of having me under her feet, etc, rather than being particularly interested in what I actually do.

And those kind of questions can generally be answered with a suitably jokey reply and everyone ends up happy: my interlocutor can feel smug that he has a purpose in life and a reason why he has to get up on a Monday morning, I can feel smug that I've got work/life balance sorted and a reason why I want to get up on a Monday morning.

 

[charliechan]

why would any of you care what anyone else thinks?

after all, a good trader should seek to lose all sense of ego.

 

[Pringle]

Now we all know what kind of trader charliechan is, but had hereto only assumed. Now we have proof.

 

[newstart]

I tell people nothing that keeps them guessing

 

[speedoray]

Answer

I trade from home quite happily but have a trading friend who answers those type of questions as such..."I am semi-retired and stay at home and fool around on the computer"....This fellow is quite good and quite profitable.

 

[Paulds11]

Interesting Post,

I just cant get my head wrapped around some of the views on this thread.. they are alien to me....

Why oh why would some of you be so obsessed with what other people think about you in the context of trading?? After 5 minutes everyone is worried about themselves... get over it... Dont you guys (ok thats a bit general sorry) know the only reason for anyone disagreeing with the notion of a trader is ignorance ( and from the other side an overly sesnitive regard for other peoples sensibilities about you imo...pure and simple...

I would be compelled to stand tall with that statement secure in the intellectual & psychological challenge represented in mastering the markets. To me it is on a par with the best opportunities available for work and certainly not boringly mechanical as some have suggested elsewhere... once you master things the next step is to scale up and compound that success.. how can that be boring? Man.. is it me?....... I am proud to know that I want to trade full time and I know what it is like not to have very much money... living off biscuits and unable to afford cigarettes as a heavy smoker ( gee that was so painful.. I cried.... but it did eventually lead to my escape from that evil weed)..& anyone who has ever been broke will understand fully the need never ever to go back to that state again.... I also know what it is like to work for other people and I am flummoxed that anyone would deny what they actually do... Where is the pride?

I dont know of many other professions where the earning potential is unlimited provided you master the correct strategies and money management.... most jobs are charades for the uninitiated who learn after a lifetime of service that teamwork and career progression are tools of oppression created to stifle ambition and bring workers into line for the benefit of shareholders savvy enough to recognize the bigger picture... and most PAYE clones do not get it, have the inclination or the balls to take such measured risk....Governments would collapse without us, economies would falter quickly and PLCs would have almost no chance of growth without us.... Traders are the Gods of capitalism doing Adam Smiths good work to be a Trader is to ride on the glory of that intellectual powerhouse called Economics, to tame the beast upon which we dare ride bearback..... "errr.. what do you do?" I TRADE STOCKS FUTURES OPTIONS AND CURRENCY PAIRS IN VARIOUS FINANCIAL MARKETS... I AM A TRADER..... Wow.. how much more prestigious could you make it?... and some of you wish to hide from that? no way stuff em... I was contemplating a Harvard MBA just for the fun of it then realized huge % go straight into V enture Capaitalism/Investment Analysis/ Trading/Private equity and then I thought I already have a dammed Masters and Im bright but not much brighter than your average trader or indeed lovely people that frequent these boards... my point? Believe in yourself, dont be swayed by others who know less, earn less and dont posses the force of nature your already blessed with..

What is of more benefit to society a reasonably successful trader who makes a donation of £100K after 10 yrs in the markets or a person who spends thier time working in a regular job even for a charity earning 25K a year?????? Dont be fooled, its mostly about money!!! not always a shoulder to cry on.. for that religion has its place and proper medical or psychological assistance through Hospitals is the support solution.... but do we get better services by working for charities? Just because joe bloggs has a vision of how one should contribute and that voice in society is loud.. is it necessarily the correct one? .... Do me a favor.. The greatest gift (outside of ones immediate family) one can provide in my view is philanthropy but in order to excersize that gift you must acquire wealth... when we trade we provide liquidity to that machine so others also accelerate themselves to that ultimate goal.... We acquire in order to spend, and there is no greater gift to oneself than to give

Doctors, nurses, Politicians or agents of support and change do not efficiently supply thier services to society for free... this is a silly idealistic notion, although we do acknowledge the huge inequalities between countries that still allow huge contribution from individuals like students and Doctors that take some personal time out to assist on a micro-economic scale. I think on a macro-economic scale, some people need to reassess the whole notion of contribution and what it means with perhaps a broader understanding of the world and how it works from an economic veiw first in order to break those habits of learned thought drummed into us about contribution methods from an early age by a society which frankly has advanced into a completely different world since then..

People who tend to look down on Trading are the same idealists heard realing off comments like "Money cant by me love".... yeah right... try telling that to Robert Tchenguiz Anna Nicole-Smith .. its not an absolute but it sure helps to make everything go around... its the means by which society measures value.
Just my 2cents

Paul TRADER... and proud of it!

 

[nkruger]

Anyone thinking that SB companies have no place in the trading world should look at the example of Refco.

.

Hello Anon. sorry to 'hijack' this thread slightly, but what's the 'Refco example' ?

NK

 

[Ertai]

If anyone asks for more details of our profession, one quick answer to shut up the other person:

- I have the same profession as Warren Buffett.

(If the person doesn't know by now who is warren buffet, he/she is too ignorant, and you teach that person with the following...)

- The 2nd richest man in the world.

(the ignorant person should stop asking questions)

Anyone who does know at least the name, should stop asking more questions, if only to avoid looking dumb not to know who he is.

Investing / Speculating / Trading is after all buying and selling

 

[lurkerlurker]

I'll "admit" it when it covers my living expenses. Right now I see no value in advertising the fact I am attempting to speculate on futures. I'm most certainly not ashamed of it, I just don't wish to advertise the fact.

If I can support myself by trading 6 months down the line, or at least make enough of a profit EOD trading alongside a full time job (sigh), I may mention it if it comes up. Until then, the fact I have lost £1700 learning how to trade is something I'll admit on T2W only.

 

[lurkerlurker]

If anyone asks for more details of our profession, one quick answer to shut up the other person:

- I have the same profession as Warren Buffett.

(If the person doesn't know by now who is warren buffet, he/she is too ignorant, and you teach that person with the following...)

- The 2nd richest man in the world.

It is a shame about that. You have no idea how much I was wanting to see him take the crown from Gates after the bubble burst. I wish BRK had gone short a few billion of tech stock, including MSFT in '99. I agree with Buffet staying out of what he "doesn't understand" though - wise man indeed.

(the ignorant person should stop asking questions)

Anyone who does know at least the name, should stop asking more questions, if only to avoid looking dumb not to know who he is.

Investing / Speculating / Trading is after all buying and selling

I think Bruce Kovner, George Soros (two opposites, just for fun), Nick Leeson, and Jesse Livermore are better examples than Buffet, but of course the Oracle of Omaha is far better known and carries much more gravitas on account of his net worth.