Delta trading

[chrisg]

This is my first post-I'm fairly new to trading.
I'm intrigued by Steve Copan's Market Matrix system-he says it is a quarter based on the Delta Phenomenon.

The Market Matrix is about £2000-the Delta book from the deltasociety website is £175

Can anyone say whether either is worth it?

Thanks Chris

 

[DaveJB]

You need to do a search on Delta I suspect,
this has been discussed at some length on T2W in the past, also on the elitetrader website.
My personal view is that I'd want some convincing before parting with the £2k, and you will find the book is the first (and cheapest) step if you want to have the Delta solution for a stock or commodity in front of you onscreen.... if it whets your appetite you'll almost certainly need the software and official solution info, and that'll see you back in the £1+ area. (It is probably possible to work just from the book, but you'll not know if your 'solution' matches the official Delta version, and the official version is NOT included. You need to join Delta to get that stuff, and they charge rather more for that!)

Delta is interesting, I have yet to encounter anyone trading from it - ie look at Delta, go slap the cash down, bank the profits. The last time I looked the monthly newletter trades didn't seem all that impressive to me.

 

[a320]

To use a quote...

Delta is a Elliott......

Obviously the email spamming must be working with all this interest...Kev Burton has been busy..

:cheesy:

What's that saying??
Don't believe the hype or something like that....

 

[DaveJB]

BTW -
that's the £1K+ area, as I think even a cheapskate like me wouldn't find paying a whole quid or more to be that expensive...

Far be it from me to denigrate such an interesting idea, I just don't think it's particularly tradeable.

 

[TheBramble]

Wow! So many newbies! So many first posts on Delta, Matrix, Copan!! And some right after joining the site. Some on their first post after waiting a while...

I wonder what can be happening!!!

Wow man, it's like the 60's - happening all over again...

And they're all so, like, geographically distant and totally non-connected man...

"If you're going to San Fransisco,
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair..."

 

[TheBramble]

Obviously the email spamming must be working with all this interest...Kev Burton has been busy....

Come on, £1,999 3-cd set doesn't sell itself cj - be fair.

You need a few 'newbies' to ramp up the interest/exposure.

 

[a320]

Ramping....it is back to the old days

It strange that you & I are the only ones who just don't seem to get it..

Maybe that matrix is now in the public domain its old hat and something new is being worked on..

 

[-oo0(GoldTrader)]

Fan-shaped sediment deposit

Hybrid Thread

I know traders who use Delta

They get some profitable trading ideas from it once they figured out how to trade it. I suspect its like using optimized cycles. Based on, I do not know what. Not much use in trading spreads. At least we know seasonals are caused by climate.

If the cost of a book is a big-deal, you should not be trading Delta. You might even reconsider if you should be trading futures at all.

 

[FetteredChinos]

i blame Bryan McFadden.

 

[trendie]

I have also heard the audio excerpts about Matrix.
Doesnt the interviewer sound like Hugh Laurie ??

Also; dont want to be negative, but .....

most scam-merchants follow a pattern of;
being in a dead-end job, in debt, on the verge of bankruptcy, and suddenly, they find a means of making a lot of money. A lot of hard work later (which may or may not include washing and cooking for the greatest traders alive (Darren Winters)), they are now very wealthy. They drive sports cars, holiday in exotic locations. And they are so philanthropic that they want to SELL you the dream of working ("if you can call it working" (reference to Vince Stanzione)) for about 10 minutes a day.

Steve is different !! He ran a company, successfully, until he got screwed by a bad deal. He was in DEBT, owing a LOT of money. (his version -although this a spin on selling a supposedly successful computer company (a variation on DW !))

I cant think of a better way of getting out of debt quickly than to sell £2K courses.

If I was Steve Copan making £5K a month, I would ratchet up the amount I traded until I made around 20K a month, (£1K a trading day), and then bog off to the Caribbean.

I wouldnt waste my time giving interviews and pushing courses.

 

[NedKelly]

Steve is different !! He ran a company, successfully, until he got screwed by a bad deal. He was in DEBT, owing a LOT of money. (his version -although this a spin on selling a supposedly successful computer company (a variation on DW !))

I cant think of a better way of getting out of debt quickly than to sell £2K courses.

If I was Steve Copan making £5K a month, I would ratchet up the amount I traded until I made around 20K a month, (£1K a trading day), and then bog off to the Caribbean.

I wouldnt waste my time giving interviews and pushing courses.

But wasn't he in debt to the tune of half a million.

So he goes on a $35,000 training couse with Wells Wilder. Give me a break.

 

[Shiver]

If the audio track is to be believed, the £35K course was many years before he started the business that left him £370K down.

The numbers of these incidents, and the numbers made in various trades do seem to vary depending on where you read the ad copy though. I've seen the above £370K mentioned as £417K as well, which doesn't inspire confidence.

There's an offer to learn about the "special numbers" in this £40 PDF: http://www.activetech.co.uk/fib96.htm

So with the "special numbers" in Fib, and the Delta methods how many other components are missing?

 

[FetteredChinos]

the special number is 09096 - F.L.E.E.C.E.D

one of our call centre assistants is waiting for your call.

dont delay. only 10 copies left etc..



still, would you trust a man who ran a startup business that got approximately a third of a million punts into the red?

i know the two arent directly linked, but it does kinda question the use of , err, stop-losses?

 

[DaveJB]

Goldie,
the book price isn't a big deal - but you won't learn the Delta turning points from it. Hence my advice earlier - I think if I paid out that much then I'd expect something significant back, and I'd have no quibble with it if the book included the information on the turning points. If you read the book then you either decide it's twaddle and sell it on Ebay etc for what you can get, or you basically have no option but to shell out a couple of $k.

You will learn the turnpoints once you pay a larger sum of money for a year's membership, and you'll find you need the software to use the info unless you really like drawing charts up. You will learn from the book how to work out the turnpoints, but you don't get any way to check your attempt matches the official Delta ones... for stocks (which I am familiar with) you need to work out the points for 50 odd sectors, with a set of points for each timeframe... Intraday isn't supplied unless you sign up to the director's membership, I vaguely recall being quoted about $25k for that, but was later offered a bargain price of $10k if I got a move on.
You then renew annually to keep it going. So in year one you are out for joining plus software -a couple of K or so as I recall. Subsequent years you are paying to keep the software going and renew membership, I think that was around £4-500 a year. I could look it up, but it's something in that ballpark.

I DO know how to find the points etc. I do know what they are based on, I think it's a very interesting idea and it can be surprisingly accurate. I don't think it's accurate enough often enough and unambiguously enough. I can point you towards cheaper timing methods that exhibit not dissimilar levels of predictive power, that are similarly interesting in their ability to occasionally time a market move to the bar... I can also point you to price and volume threads on T2W that will allow you to learn how to do that without paying out £2000, and if you really get the hang of it you'll definitely outperform Delta.

last time I looked Steve Copan wasn't in the rich list, was he?

 

[chrisg]

DaveJB,a320 and Goldtrader

Thanks very much for the feedback--its been very useful and thought provoking.

I've done a search now on T3W and realise theres been lots of stuff posted before(oops).

Yes please DaveJB,could you point me in the direction of the best threads on price and volume?
Thanks for helping a novice.
Chris

 

[DaveJB]

Well,
the one called 'Price and Volume' is a good place to start <g> Look under the 'private members boards' heading and you'll need to ask dbphoenix for the go ahead to join it, as it's not open to all comers. dbphoenix also has a group on yahoo (I think it's yahoo) where you can download a few PDF files containing his thoughts on P&V.
There's quite a long thread called "Trading the US the Naz/Mr Charts way" that includes a fair amount on this - although you do have to step over the the arguing a bit at times. In "the mechanical and systems trading forum" I like to look at the 1-2-3 Formations thread, whilst this is aimed at one particualr formation on a bar/candle chart I still think staring repeatedly at charts is the best way to learn to read them.
Traders forum/first steps thread "Accumulation/Distribution" is worth a look.

Many (many!) other threads contain items of interest and pointers, unfortunately the pearls tend to be buried under a lot of discussion, because it stands to reason that if you get something really interesting (or inflammatory) posted you'll then get a burst of follow on posts and chat. That's life...

 

[TheBramble]

Dave, you tease. You forgot JftB!!!

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=10672

AND

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=11515

Ah...those were the days....

 

[a320]

how many other components are missing?

The infamous Vortex springs to mind...

 

[TheBramble]

The infamous Vortex springs to mind...

There's no way Steve would release the Vortex.

He'd be crazy.

Any indication that Fibonacci and Gann had a love-child who discovered...

THE VORTEX

Would lead to world-wide mayhem...surely?

I know my copy is safely locked away.

Is this a Purple-23 day?

 

[DaveJB]

Chrisg,
to explain, before you disappear under a metre thick (we're in the EU now...) carpet of in jokes, JFtB was a thread that acheived unrivalled fame (is that the word you'd use, Tony?) I left it out on purpose, of course, as the 'content to interest' ratio on that thread is still undecided, scientists at CERN in Geneva are in fact evaluating it to decide whether the unit of information it contained is in fact the smallest yet discovered. We know about the force carriers involved in Quark colour change (eg down quark to up quark when Beta decay results from the spontaneous conversion of a Neutron - half life approx 15 mins in the free state - into a proton, an electron, and an antineutrino) all the result of W bosons of course (PM Tony for a fuller description) but JTtB contained an even smaller amount of information than the anti neutrino in said decay (per unit mass, naturally).

Or to put it another way, despite a lot of editing there's a huge wodge of b******s there that only the terminally insane would wade through twice. This ISN'T a pop at the thread starter, but I think it's fair to say you'd be better off buying a simple TA book and reading that.

This is, in fact, what I'd suggest anyway - read a couple of books THEN check T2W out. I'd suggest William Jiler to start, it's called 'How Charts Can Help You in the Stock Market' and it'll set you back £15 or so, it'll take all afternoon to read. After that I'd look for a more in depth book, not Murphy (that's a reference manual, not something to read) second book pick something purely TA - Edwards and McGee perhaps, don't touch the psychology side at all (Van Tharp, Elder) until you know the basics of TA. Feel free to read them once you know what a chart is - anybody who sends you down the 'know yourself' route before you can find support and resistance by simply looking is talking cobblers... it doesn't matter what state your head is in if you have no idea what the chart says to begin with.

By the way Chris, Tony is actually okay, I wouldn't let him marry into the family or anything (obviously!) but don't mind him, he's a good guy really.

Dave