I considered Etrade professional but it just seems too expensive at £10 flat rate. Not good for testing or starting out with small trades to learn. Maybe as you advance and start gearing heavier positions it might become more cost effective. I hear flat rates are good for big positions only. I'm not too sure, but I think I recall hearing that Etrade doesn't have particularly tight spreads in comparison to other brokers, but it does have a very high quality platform!
JonnyT said:
Are you a developer JonnyT? You seem to have some skill with VB, Java and C++.
<techie rant mode>
Anyway, I have to disagree about java. Java is very easy to code but that doesn't mean its the best language. In all areas of life there are fads... java has engulfed the development community with everyone singing its praises. Managers love it because its quicker to code hence development life cycle is shorter, developers love it because it has lots of things done for you and is easy and less hassle!
But, its not necessarily the right tool for the job! If you are developing for a single OS... why use Java? "Java does this command in 2ms, C++ in 1ms... whats the difference?", "Thats twice as slow per operation!". "We'll buy some faster computers then... cheaper more cost effective than efficient code!"
You see the ignorance! You have a fast machine, as a professional you still have to develop the most efficient code for it! Its a professional duty unless you have a non-functional spec that says we want it developed extremely fast but run very slow!
My experience of ALL java applications is that they clog up my machine! "Market Maker" (Deal4Frees sh!te app) hogs my cpu and it does **** all! Various other java applications are slow and sluggish too!!! I didn't fork out thousands of pounds on the best equipment to have something run crappily on it!
I went for a job interview with this television broadcasting company who require robust, fast, efficient 24/7 servers! They are converting their C++ servers into java!!! "Why?" I ask, "Do you use different OS in your system?" "No!"... "Could it actually be the design being at fault rather than the language?" They had no good explanation why they would recode it in Java. I didn't get the job!
Its similar to XML... XML is 90% full of tags and only 10% of data! And the amount of coding effort AND processing that needs to go into marshalling and unmarshalling the data for it is stupid. Fixed width binary message systems were quick and easy: pointer to beginning of structure... send through socket... read from socket.. cast to appropriate structure. A million times faster! Why use XML if you know the data structure before hand!! My fellow developers can no longer claim to be so clever or intelligent!
</techi rant mode>
Nobrainer
Maybe IB have expanded since you last had a look at them but they do offer UK stock for direct access trading at £5 per trade or 0.01% of the share value. So shares on uk companies and futures on FTSE index. They require you to have around 50% margin on shares. Us shares are traded at 1 cent for each share up to the 1st 500 shares and then 0.5 cents for any number of shares above this amount. The value of the shares is immaterial as long as you have 50% capital in your account to cover the value of the position taken. As for UK shares I would not know if this is good or bad as I currently do not trade them. I only know they appeared to be good value for FTSE index futures but then I am not a large trader.
What benefits do you feel Etrade offer against GNI and the likes of IB.
Thanks for the response. I ask the questions as it is probable that I may need to go down this path myself and as you are already walking along the path who better to ask.
Kevin
Maybe IB have expanded since you last had a look at them but they do offer UK stock for direct access trading at £5 per trade or 0.01% of the share value. So shares on uk companies and futures on FTSE index. They require you to have around 50% margin on shares. Us shares are traded at 1 cent for each share up to the 1st 500 shares and then 0.5 cents for any number of shares above this amount. The value of the shares is immaterial as long as you have 50% capital in your account to cover the value of the position taken. As for UK shares I would not know if this is good or bad as I currently do not trade them. I only know they appeared to be good value for FTSE index futures but then I am not a large trader.
What benefits do you feel Etrade offer against GNI and the likes of IB.
Thanks for the response. I ask the questions as it is probable that I may need to go down this path myself and as you are already walking along the path who better to ask.
Kevin
NoBrainer
Re the charges the US figures quoted are correct, the uk was £5 flat fee or either 0.01 or 0.1% whichever was the greater. I do realise you can take much larger positions with CFD's due to the margin but what are the interest charges like when you swing trade. If you use them for day trading have you had problems getting out due to the size taken.
I ask because 2 traders have given me different examples, 1 held a position in Man Group for a couple of months and according to him having bought in around £10 closed out when it was in the £12's. He had been holding a paper profit of around £8/9k but when he settled the interest reduced his profit to just over £4k.
Another complained that he was trading CFD's I think with CMC and lost much more than he wanted to because they took ages to close his order and they claimed this was the reason for the delay. I think he traded in the region of 20 to 30 contracts.
Re the charges the US figures quoted are correct, the uk was £5 flat fee or either 0.01 or 0.1% whichever was the greater. I do realise you can take much larger positions with CFD's due to the margin but what are the interest charges like when you swing trade. If you use them for day trading have you had problems getting out due to the size taken.
I ask because 2 traders have given me different examples, 1 held a position in Man Group for a couple of months and according to him having bought in around £10 closed out when it was in the £12's. He had been holding a paper profit of around £8/9k but when he settled the interest reduced his profit to just over £4k.
Another complained that he was trading CFD's I think with CMC and lost much more than he wanted to because they took ages to close his order and they claimed this was the reason for the delay. I think he traded in the region of 20 to 30 contracts.
Nobrainer
Last question. I can see how you could place much larger orders than the capital in your account would generate, or that you could diversify spreading the available capital but could this lead to bad money management through over trading. Fine when it works out but if you take a hit you would probably give up a larger % of your capital in a loss unless I am missing something.
Last question. I can see how you could place much larger orders than the capital in your account would generate, or that you could diversify spreading the available capital but could this lead to bad money management through over trading. Fine when it works out but if you take a hit you would probably give up a larger % of your capital in a loss unless I am missing something.
I too have used CMC in the past, but never again. The requotes are a major concern (even when trading small volumes on sector indices or ftse 250 stocks). Their business needs a flow of losing (over)traders. Now use Mandirect for CFDs and IB for futures. Very happy with both and will never touch CMC again, particularly as I lost a small fortune last year when their systems were down.
Well i'm using Cmc for spread betting at the moment and the only reason i'm not making money is because of my mistakes no one elses. Sure they're in it to make money which company isn't ? I started with Igindex whom i wasn't very impressed with then moved onto Finspreads but their software had a habit of crashing once too often for my liking, then they'd try to blame me for making a mistake !! Then i seen Cmc offering free realtime data once u open an account, how bad can that be ?
Ive had lots of problems with CMC systems going down or merely not having my account updated correctly.
For instance, one time I had a rather large position open with a stop loss. I tracked it during the day and was horrified that suddenly the price took a nose dive destroying my profit and hitting my stop loss. When I got home I was even more horrified that my stop loss hadn't got hit!!!! So I covered manually at a great loss.
The next day the price shot up (as is often the case). however, when I logged on again I was now SHORT!! And had lost even more money!!!!! The limit had got triggered but there system never showed it, so when I manually covered I was actually going short!
This sort of thing has happened before. There system is terrible! Also recently their prices haven't been updating.... shoddy!
For instance, one time I had a rather large position open with a stop loss. I tracked it during the day and was horrified that suddenly the price took a nose dive destroying my profit and hitting my stop loss. When I got home I was even more horrified that my stop loss hadn't got hit!!!! So I covered manually at a great loss.
The next day the price shot up (as is often the case). however, when I logged on again I was now SHORT!! And had lost even more money!!!!! The limit had got triggered but there system never showed it, so when I manually covered I was actually going short!
This sort of thing has happened before. There system is terrible! Also recently their prices haven't been updating.... shoddy!
Rainmaker
What is the benefit of using both CFD's and futures. I am not suggesting that there is no benefit I would just be grateful if you could explain. Which one offers better value in your opinion for day trading and swing trading due to the costs such as interest.
Kevin
What is the benefit of using both CFD's and futures. I am not suggesting that there is no benefit I would just be grateful if you could explain. Which one offers better value in your opinion for day trading and swing trading due to the costs such as interest.
Kevin
pkfryer - i've had exactly the same problem. the system was giving me an incorrect position, so i closed a losing position, only to find that my stop-loss had been hit and i was short. the market reversed and i lost a lot of money. cmc were rude to me when i complained, so i wrote to the fsa and closed my account.
I have only used CMC for day trading the FTSE cash. I place my deals at market and make no use of the other orders stopping deals manually. iF YOU CANNOT RELY ON THE MECHANICS OF THE TRADING PLATFORM for you trading then I can see that the problems you have experienced are such that you must take your business elsewhere, I KNOW I WOULD.
It would seem that if you wish to trade using more of the facilities of an active trader (not just a day trader) then you will not get the service you require from a spread-better. Maybe that is harsh but there does seem to be a lot of disgruntled people out there when the discussion of spread-betters is raised. You don't seem to get this reaction to the better known direct access or conventional brokers. They may cost more but me thinks you probably pay this to get the better deal and service.
It would seem that if you wish to trade using more of the facilities of an active trader (not just a day trader) then you will not get the service you require from a spread-better. Maybe that is harsh but there does seem to be a lot of disgruntled people out there when the discussion of spread-betters is raised. You don't seem to get this reaction to the better known direct access or conventional brokers. They may cost more but me thinks you probably pay this to get the better deal and service.
Deal4free get a lot of stick here and that is understandable as many have commented.. but I still use em, albeit it in a strictly limited fashion.. I only ever have used the cfd's so know nothing of spreadbetting which does not interest me..
I agree that their requote system is definitely dodgy and only kicks in when you are trying to extract a gain out of them.. and that renders any fast daytrading useless... I use IB for my real trading but find d4f great for testing new strategies out with low share size.. requotes never seem to happen much then... lol Also for swing positions its ok.. if you are on a win then small cent slippages or delays dont matter that much..
The platform seems to work pretty well these days for me, but I now have a very fast xp and use very little of my cpu even with many many progs running alongside cmc..
So, treat with caution... but if learning or doing as I do above.. then they definitely can be a useful tool..
Neil
I agree that their requote system is definitely dodgy and only kicks in when you are trying to extract a gain out of them.. and that renders any fast daytrading useless... I use IB for my real trading but find d4f great for testing new strategies out with low share size.. requotes never seem to happen much then... lol Also for swing positions its ok.. if you are on a win then small cent slippages or delays dont matter that much..
The platform seems to work pretty well these days for me, but I now have a very fast xp and use very little of my cpu even with many many progs running alongside cmc..
So, treat with caution... but if learning or doing as I do above.. then they definitely can be a useful tool..
Neil
Kevin, just seen your conversation with nobrainer about direct access on UK stocks and IB. I was checking the platform today and can't see direct access. I think you may misunderstand which nobraiiner and I mean by direct access - ie putting an order on the SETS order book and buying at bid, selling at the offer. Would be interested if can do on IB but doesn't look like it.
Rainmaker said:
Me too - although demo trade this is a good example i think. my strategy is a KISS one..(keep it simple stupid) - i find that what the SBs call the FTSE movement for the day is amazingly good...so put a buy on 5 mins after open...the price gapped and hey presto...instead of being £££s up, I am SHORT not LONG and £180 down! Did they thing I wouldnt notice! JEEZ!
in2uxs
Member
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I’ve been using CMC for about 3 years, and have found them to be excellent. Never had a problem with the system crashing or appearing slow – maybe you should all stop bragging about your old 486’s running windows 3.11 and invest in a Pentium?
I’ve had the odd re-quote from CMC, but never during stable times during office hours. If the market is going up or down in leaps and bounds then this is when I get re-quoted, but this is just down to the numbers flooding the system and slowing it down – bit like when you download a popular porn film from limewire.
Another time when orders are slow is after hours which is due to the shares not been that liquid and so may take a few seconds to fill. This is simple logic and not a case for Mulder and Skulley.
It really is a joke for people on here to think that they’ve lost all their money due to companies such as CMC been against them – that they’ve manipulated prices to con them out of their £50 investment on turkey burgers. This theory is up there with fat chick on X factor not really cutting the mustard, but instead of admitting her own flaws blames the judges for not putting her unique talent through due to their inability to appreciate whale music. The fact is that 99% of the time people lose money dealing because they are the worst kind of pig investors, just as fat chick doesn’t get to win X factor because she’s a fat chick with a toss voice who people would rather roll back into the sea than hear sing.
CMC turned over about 75,000,000 last year, and its founder is one of the richest men in the city. If you really think he is sat behind some computer somewhere manipulating prices for each individual who should place an order then this has to be paranoid thinking of the worst kind.
Whether you win or lose at spread betting or dealing in CFD’s it really is of no importance to companies such as CMC. Unlike conventional bookmakers who stand to lose should your pony come in at 25-1 spread betting firms and CFD firms don’t in fact lose anything owing to two reasons. The first is due to the mathematical reasoning of the law of averages. If you buy 5 ftse shares thinking they will go up the law of averages would say that someone else will be selling 5 ftse shares thinking they will go down and so regardless of who wins or losses CMC win by taking their cut out of the spread. If shares on the rare occasions don’t follow the law of averages rule then CMC just hedge such imbalances against physical shares. Yes, they may lose the odd trade, but on the whole they win.
Stop blaming others people. A whole new world opens up when you admit to yourself that your just a w**k investor.
I’ve had the odd re-quote from CMC, but never during stable times during office hours. If the market is going up or down in leaps and bounds then this is when I get re-quoted, but this is just down to the numbers flooding the system and slowing it down – bit like when you download a popular porn film from limewire.
Another time when orders are slow is after hours which is due to the shares not been that liquid and so may take a few seconds to fill. This is simple logic and not a case for Mulder and Skulley.
It really is a joke for people on here to think that they’ve lost all their money due to companies such as CMC been against them – that they’ve manipulated prices to con them out of their £50 investment on turkey burgers. This theory is up there with fat chick on X factor not really cutting the mustard, but instead of admitting her own flaws blames the judges for not putting her unique talent through due to their inability to appreciate whale music. The fact is that 99% of the time people lose money dealing because they are the worst kind of pig investors, just as fat chick doesn’t get to win X factor because she’s a fat chick with a toss voice who people would rather roll back into the sea than hear sing.
CMC turned over about 75,000,000 last year, and its founder is one of the richest men in the city. If you really think he is sat behind some computer somewhere manipulating prices for each individual who should place an order then this has to be paranoid thinking of the worst kind.
Whether you win or lose at spread betting or dealing in CFD’s it really is of no importance to companies such as CMC. Unlike conventional bookmakers who stand to lose should your pony come in at 25-1 spread betting firms and CFD firms don’t in fact lose anything owing to two reasons. The first is due to the mathematical reasoning of the law of averages. If you buy 5 ftse shares thinking they will go up the law of averages would say that someone else will be selling 5 ftse shares thinking they will go down and so regardless of who wins or losses CMC win by taking their cut out of the spread. If shares on the rare occasions don’t follow the law of averages rule then CMC just hedge such imbalances against physical shares. Yes, they may lose the odd trade, but on the whole they win.
Stop blaming others people. A whole new world opens up when you admit to yourself that your just a w**k investor.
Olipro
Junior member
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I've been trading CFDs for a while with CMC and have personally had no problems with them, sometimes I have had requotes although they are generally only a few cents from my entry price, and usually only apply to higher priced stocks since I tend to find that trades on stocks like AAPL are filled flawlessly, furthermore, I have often been re-quoted prices in my favor when entering and exiting a position and the requotes for exiting have rarely been against me (when I do get requoted).
The one thing I do find is that the odds of getting a requote depend a lot on your ping and the movement in the underlying, but thus far I cannot complain.
The one thing I do find is that the odds of getting a requote depend a lot on your ping and the movement in the underlying, but thus far I cannot complain.