Contribue to building a shared trading strategy

[Schixm]

good day to you all. i've been tinkering with an idea but am still trying to figure out how to put it across in clear and concise way. i'll give it a go.

i have a strategy which is about 80% complete and i thought to invite a few other INTERMEDIATE traders on the board to participate in developing this strategy to a workable model.

i am wanting to open a private room for this but am posting here to see if there is any interest first. obviously this will all depend on the moderators/admin permitting a private room (or social group i think it's called?) for this purpose, so the go ahead will not come from me but from them.

i am looking for people who have some market knowledge and who have experience of both REAL profit and loss - size doesn't matter (...where ave i heard that before?). i am not looking for complete newbies who have not yet done much of their own work and i am not looking for experienced traders who are already profitable. it doesn't matter how many posts you've made although a few would be helpful in assessing your level of understanding and intentions on the board so far.(i'd prefer hearing from people who have posted around 200 times or LESS).

i believe that where i am now struggling to complete this strategy a combined effort will not only help me to achieve this goal, but will help all who become involved as well. as i say, i believe my system to be about 80% complete so that is a large contribution on my part. i am willing to share this in it's entirety with strangers in return for some input from you (if your input is not workable that's no problem, as long as you are willing to make a contribution).

i've been reading these boards for about three years now so i have some idea of who is who (although i'm aware there is a vast silent majority). what i don't want is disruption or unconstructive criticism and arguments among participants which is why i've decided to go with the private group on invitation only basis. i would like it to be a haven for intelligent thought and development that will enrich those who take part - even if you dislike the system and decide it's not for you. that's fine too. hopefully you will still benefit in some way but if you choose to leave hopefully you would also have gained something.

what does my system comprise so far? it is purely technical at this point and is based on price action and support/resistance mainly. it also includes prediction and projection levels based on simple observation. there are no indicators required as yet (although momentum and ADX have proven useful at times). i have the exit strategy and money management done. the entry setups is the difficulty because this system does require a definate entry point. of course, i always know where this was in hindsight. this is the area where the system is needing development so if you have good entry ideas but perhaps having difficutly with the other two aspects of your own trading stategy, this may be a perfect project for you to get involved in.

i don't want to be wasting anybody's time and i don't want to be wasting mine either. so if you think this could be of GENUINE interest to you, please PM me or post a comment and i'll let you know how things are progressing. i'm looking for about 4+ people (don't want too many as i don't want to be spending my time in administrative nightmare trying to keep track of who's who, if you know what i mean).

i will not be teaching/training/advising in any capacity whatsoever - so if you're looking to learn something, you're in the wrong place. it won't be a case of me banging on about something while hundreds can read my posts if they choose to. i don't have a system to 'teach' and i'm not selling anything. this project will be highly interactive but has to consist of group members who are comfortable with the arrangement and with each other. and of course there has to be a level of trust and sincerity as well. so please only PM if you have a genuine interest. i will fully explain the system so far if there is indeed any interest and of course once the room is setup.

many thanks

 

[Martinghoul]

I am afraid purely technical strategies are just not for me... Good luck!

 

[TheBramble]

Might be an idea to let bods know which particular market or markets you're interested in as that will have a significant impact on interest.

In which part of Ireland and you based?

 

[Schixm]

Might be an idea to let bods know which particular market or markets you're interested in as that will have a significant impact on interest.

In which part of Ireland and you based?

thanks for your reply, bramble. it doen' really matter about which market because this system will work in any market. don't want to be 'tying' anyone to the system or making them feel they should trade a certain instrument or even follow all the rules. but if someone can get something useful out of it and also maybe contribute, that's all i'm after really.

co kildare (wicklow) - bout half hour from dublin

 

[Schixm]

I am afraid purely technical strategies are just not for me... Good luck!

thanks for your reply, martinghoul but the system is only BASED on technicals. that is the structure. but it also plays over any time scale so other market analysis and fundamentals would be a great addition and indeed valuable. i'm open to all ideas - of course if they could translate into a technical entry that would be ideal. but i'm also trying to keep it real simple.

 

[megamuel]

Two things worry me here:

1. Why would you prefer people who have posted 200 times or less? That doesn't make sense to me at all. And;

2. How can you say the system will work in any market before it works in any market? How do you know that?

 

[Schixm]

Two things worry me here:

1. Why would you prefer people who have posted 200 times or less? That doesn't make sense to me at all. And;

2. How can you say the system will work in any market before it works in any market? How do you know that?

hey there, megamuel. to answer your questions -

1) the reason i said i PREFER around 200 posts is because i assume members who have posted this much are still making enquiries rather than contributions. i reckoned that once members are making regular contributions they're either going to be too advanced and perhaps critical of the system as it is so far OR they could be the disruptive types which isn't going to work well. but someone like you, for example, would be perfect (just been reading your journal) so you'd be more than welcome if it interests you at all - i just wouldn't want to be wasting your time. btw, i have an entry rule very similar to mrcharts there on your first trade that would have got you in at the same level and another before that as well. ok, so to sum up if anyone else is reading this - the 200 posts is not that important, it's just a guide.

2) secondly, this system is by no means complete thats why the invitation for people to help develop it into something workable and to the benefit of all involved - (two brains better than one and all that). but i have applied it so far to all time frames on futures, stocks, currencies - and it works well. commodities are slightly different though to be honest and a little more room has to be given there, but i don't trade commodities so haven't really looked into it that.

anyway, i'm not trying to sell anyone a complete system here - if anyone else is reading and there is any confusion please re-read my opening post. very briefly, the system is largely made up of well known rules with one unique angle (or i assume unique, i could be wrong). and even this is very simple but just does not seem to be widely spoken about or even mentioned - yet i find it very effective especially as regards managing the trade and exits. anyways, hope this answers your question. i'll be off reading more of your journal...

 

[everyonerich]

why dont you just reveal all your plan here, then anyone interested will give their suggestion and improvement.

 

[pedro01]

Let me get this right - you want to take 4 traders, that aren't making any money. Put their collective minds together & start making money ?

Anyway - here's what I think.

- If you get T2W to give you a private area on this forum to develop a money making strategy, then you are still making that strategy semi-public. This means T2W owners, admins and mods will be able to read the posts & then use the startegy for themselves. Are you really 100% comfortable with this ? If so, why limit to 4 traders ? why not just make it open ? Setting up your own private forum would take a few hours and give you control over who has access.

- Why do you think that your strategy is 80% complete ? I ask because you could easily think that the attached strategy is 80% complete. The problem with a strategy is that when you add things to reduce the losers, it also reduces the winners. So - I would like to ask why it is you think what you have can be improved upon. How will you find improvements to a system that reduce the losers without impacting the winners ?

Cheers

Pete


Attached - performance report trading YM pit session, over past 2 years. System uses no indicators at all. Trades price only. No slippage or commissions included but considering it's only 115 trades in 2 years, it's not going to be a huge number. Knock a few grand off for good luck.

 

[Schixm]

why dont you just reveal all your plan here, then anyone interested will give their suggestion and improvement.

hi, i did think about doing it that way at first but i explained in my opening post why i don't really want to - i may end up going that route though, but then i may opt for a blog rather than the forum (where i can have more control over the content). it depends on the interest really.

 

[Schixm]

hi pete, real profitable system you have there. thanks for sharing that

Let me get this right - you want to take 4 traders, that aren't making any money. Put their collective minds together & start making money ?

yes, that's it exactly

- If you get T2W to give you a private area on this forum to develop a money making strategy, then you are still making that strategy semi-public. This means T2W owners, admins and mods will be able to read the posts & then use the startegy for themselves. Are you really 100% comfortable with this ? If so, why limit to 4 traders ? why not just make it open ? Setting up your own private forum would take a few hours and give you control over who has access.

i hadn't thought of it that way. you have a point there. i may have jumped in a little too fast.

- Why do you think that your strategy is 80% complete ? I ask because you could easily think that the attached strategy is 80% complete. The problem with a strategy is that when you add things to reduce the losers, it also reduces the winners. So - I would like to ask why it is you think what you have can be improved upon. How will you find improvements to a system that reduce the losers without impacting the winners ?

i would like to make improvements on the entries. which i reckon is worth 20% of the strategy, but still important. with the system there are 3 outcomes for every possible entry i.e. if correct there are nearly always 2 possible winners for every setup, if incorrect 1 losing trade. that's before the R:R is considered.

but maybe i need to re-think this. thanks for the valued replies, it's much appreciated - if i do get a fair response then it'll be up to the others as much as me what we decide to do i suppose.

 

[everyonerich]

in this game of uncertainty, just take all the route.

- private forum -----> plan 1
- open forum ------> plan 2
- your own blog ---> plan 3


then lets see what are the difference at the end your plan will be

 

[Schixm]

in this game of uncertainty, just take all the route.

- private forum -----> plan 1
- open forum ------> plan 2
- your own blog ---> plan 3


then lets see what are the difference at the end your plan will be

yes, perhaps 2 will be winners and 1 a loser. but what's my R:R?

 

[everyonerich]

yes, perhaps 2 will be winners and 1 a loser. but what's my R:R?

just take all the route, private members in private forum will contribute to your plan and discuss your R:R

another route, open forum. let anyone interested will contribute and discuss your R:R

then the last one, 'your own blog' you determine your own R:R

 

[GammaJammer]

well fwiw i think the 200 post idea makes no sense. Some newbies come on and think they know it all from day one. Some people could post 10,000 times and still be trying to learn. If you have something genuinely new and genuinely of merit, no-one who takes their trading seriously wouldn't be interested. And most successful traders don't write one system and rely on it for twenty years. For a start many of the world's most successful traders are not systematic. And of those who are, you can bet your @ss they don't just shut themselves off to new idea. Especially with the the markets changing and evolving as fast as they are these days.

Just my $0.02

GJ

 

[Schixm]

well fwiw i think the 200 post idea makes no sense. Some newbies come on and think they know it all from day one. Some people could post 10,000 times and still be trying to learn. If you have something genuinely new and genuinely of merit, no-one who takes their trading seriously wouldn't be interested. And most successful traders don't write one system and rely on it for twenty years. For a start many of the world's most successful traders are not systematic. And of those who are, you can bet your @ss they don't just shut themselves off to new idea. Especially with the the markets changing and evolving as fast as they are these days.

Just my $0.02

GJ

thanks, i hear what you're saying. of course, now i'm setting myself up to deliver the 'goods' when in fact i don't really have a complete system. also, i don't believe it's anything new (as in 'there's nothing new in the markets' misquote) - i think it's probably more like something old that has just been overlooked and forgotten (probably for good reason, who knows?) which i just happen to have picked up on and can see some potential there. ok, i'll think about it. if i do decide to post it it'll be in a new thread.

good trading everyone

 

[TheBramble]

schixm, with respect, why not just post what your ideas and thoughts are and get feedback? That's what most bods do.

I could be hallucinating, but there just possibly appears to be in your approach an element of a need for control or perhaps a desire for building drama and tension rather than the dissemination or discussion of ideas. It has unpleasant and unhealthy connotations with a countryman of yours who used to frequent these boards. I’m not suggesting your immediate and obvious ease of use with the various facilities of t2w or your equally obvious familiarity of and with these boards given you quite recent joining is in any way indicative you are that same person – just that I have an instinct and I’d be delighted to be wrong.

If you've got 80% of a system or whatever and you want feedback, just spit it out. If you're worried about others benefiting from your efforts or thoughts - then no matter what you do, you're always going to have those worries if it's part of your nature and you’re better off going it alone.

But in any event, starting another thread and getting the troops to ‘follow you over there’ wont help.

 

[megamuel]

Schixm,

I think I see where you are coming from. It sounds like you've hit a brick wall developing your strategy and you want to discuss it with some others in the hope that it will become a profitable strategy... But this is what I don't get - If it were me, I would want to discuss my strategy with mr.marcus, gooseman, arabianights, rathcoole_exile, etc. People that have shown they know a bit, rather than prefering people with less posts. Don't get me wrong I don't think post count relates at all to whether a trader is profitable, but a lower post count would definately relate to people less aware with some of the scams and things that go on here. In other words more people with lower post counts are gullible newbies, most people with higher post counts are not gullible newbies even if they aren't profitable. You see what I am getting at? Anyway, I second Brambles suggestion that you should post it up on here, you will get feedback, some good, some bad, then you can decide for yourself who you want to listen to, and don't worry, revealing your system won't make it any less effective. All the best,

Sam.

P.S. Would I know who you are talking about Bramble?

 

[Schixm]

ok, thanks for your replies bramble and megamuel. i'm taking it all on board.

- bramble, i'm happy to tell you your assumptions/suspicions are unfounded. i've posted on forums before and am computer literate (also know a bit of the old html). navigating forums is not a difficult thing to do. not sure what 'facilities' you refer to though? are you able to view activity i'm not aware of? perhaps you could elaborate. megamuel, i've been reading this web site for about 3 years now and am also familiar with some of the whose who (i mention that in my op) - otherwise you're spot on.

i found a couple of interesting threads/posts while doing a search - this should give you some idea of what this is about:

hwsteele from post #2 (this is the gist of it - and yes, before you suggest it, i've already PM'd the guy)
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/price-volume/48428-how-i-see-50-rule.html

FulcrumTrader post #40 (it has some of these elements but not as sophisticated)
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/68552-scalping-profitable-5.html#post871526

bramble, no disrespect to you either, but i don't want to be getting into a discussion about my personal approach or merits as a contributor - i believe that's the sort of thing that does cause 'drama and tension' and that's exactly what i wish to avoid. i do not hold the keys to the kingdom and don't possess a 'holy grail' and i'm not pretending to - i certainly don't want to blow my perceived value of this system out of proportion which is why i wanted to start with a small private group. for some reason people tend to have a different attitude in small groups or private PM than on the public board. don't know why that is.

depending on how things go i might decide to post this idea for what it's worth after all. but least you now have the general idea. there's really not that much more to it.

 

[Yamato]

Schixm, you're right in wanting to keep it private, because as you see you've had to answer 10 posts already not related to developing a better system. All those on a hypothetical "improve Schixm's system" thread should only add ideas to the system. Here we're getting off-topic.

Let me know when you start such a thread, and if you want me. Maybe by now, with private messages, you've already gathered those 4 people you wanted. In that case, no problem. Otherwise, I would like to learn about your system and see if I can help you (and use it myself). I am pretty good at developing very simple systems that make money, even though they only have a 60% of wins. Most of my systems consist of 4 lines of easylanguage code (two lines for long/short entry, two lines for long/short exits). This way they cannot be over-optimized. Now I have 33 of them. Some of them don't even work maybe. If I'll see that they don't, after a few months of forward testing, I'll simply not use them. This is to say that I am not a genius, but quantity can compensate for quality (33 pretty good systems, used together, work better than one very good system). If you're interested or if anyone else is, let me know. Maybe I would simplify your system, getting rid of things, rather than adding things to it. I am pretty good at simplifying things.