Truth Seeker
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Truth Seeker
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You have totally misunderstood what SB is all about. The market maker doesn't create their own synthetic market. The product offered reflects the movement of the underlaying asset. I think you have to do some research in order to understand how they operate.
Some of them play games, sure, but that is something one has to include in the risk profile trading with a certain SB company.
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"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
Glee101! Let me try to explain for you. It's their market we trade, they totally control it, that's why when you ask them who do they get there data feed from they never give you a straight answer, the usual reply is 'we use many providers'. The facts are these: we trade their market, they know where we are in their market, and where our take profits and stop losses are. When we lose they win our losses and when we win, we eat into their profits. They may hedge some really large traders who trade longer term, but I doubt very much they have the abilty to go to market and hedge all the scalpers/day traders positions. I don't care what they say to you or others, they WANT us to lose, not win, hence the 90 odd percent loser statistics. So we have to beat the market, and the spreadbet companies if we want to trade tax free.
ZEN archer
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Is it possible?
I know this thread is about CMC, but you may be interested in one of the successful IG client's story. Check the link:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fix...46-ig-index-custom-betting-8.html#post1787494
In short once he started winning regularly they put him on a dealer referral and made it almost impossible for him to place the bets (according to the poster). Is this legal?
Emini-mouse
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Last edited:
ZEN archer
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As he put it, he made £7,894 profit when IG Index put him on dealer referral. Also he mentioned being pretty hard to even get in trades. He couldn't withdraw money from his account and IG Index blamed a technical error for it.
Why don’t they put you on dealer referral for good if you are a consistently profitable trader instead of on and off? Maybe they have different level compared to IG (£7,894 and you are out of action according to that guy).
Maybe you are not consistently profitable, so they are expecting you to fail at some point - according to some of the posters clients losses = SB company’s profit. Is it true?
Can you give some specific details if you don’t mind?
Thanks
Emini-mouse
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scalping the dow and consistently profitable i would eventually be on dealer referral. the account would not usually go back to normal.
this was on market maker not next gen
tar
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7800 pounds is nothing , IG put him on a dealer at the fixed odds markets we r not talking spreadbetting here , that's why i prefer Nadex for binaries which is also belongs to IG group but it is an US based exchange under the cftc .
I t seems we have a totally different view on how SB in general operate. Anyway you are entitled to your opinion. We are not slaves who is forced to trade with a SB company, you are free to leave any time and start trading the DMA instead. The success rate is about the same on that side of the fence.
____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
This is nothing new for me, I have been around long enough and been put on referral to a dealer a couple of times myself. I have frequently stated on different threads that I am against flagging and "discrimination" of certain clients in order to restrict their trading success. This is against the EU financial directive of "Best execution" and should result in appropriate action taken by the regulators against the SB in question. It is like the problems with "high frequency" trading operations, everybody knows it is not right, but the regulators is hopelessly behind in creating directives for this type of operations. The same goes for the SB industry, there is no real commitment at the moment to correct and oversee that the regulation is working as intended.Gle101
This guy is accurate and I can tell he trades for a living, you should listen more and type less.
____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
tar
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I wouldn't bother wasting your time Truth Seeker, I have already tried explaining the facts however it seems to have fallen on deaf ears...some people regardless of how clear the facts are for all to see will remain naive and believe whatever they are told to believe!
Yes gle you are right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and fair play to you for whatever that opinion may be, however it's unfortunate that when someone such as myself and Truth Seeker attempt to help educate other traders by presenting facts, that help is ignored.....as Truth Seeker quite rightly pointed out, the fact 90% lose quite clearly indicates what we have both been saying of how SB companies (as a whole) want their clients to lose and not profit! For the record, DMA can be combined with SB therefore giving you the advantage of transparency from your provider along with other benefits (spreads are determined by the underlying market which most of the time means tighter spreads, only slippage that occurs is natural slippage, no bad fills, instant execution with no re-quotes)!
Yes, I already know what your response will be...'DMA is more expensive'...yes in some instances this is true, however personally (and I appreciate this is my personal opinion and not necessarily the case for everyone), I'd prefer the above mentioned benefits and to pay that little bit more rather than trust the other SB providers out there who will eventually play dirty (or of course they could put me on dealer referral/ close my account for being 'in breach of our T&Cs' lol)!
The point I am getting at is, if you combine DMA with SB, you reap all the benefits of tax free trading whilst increasing your chances of winning (as the other side of the trade will be taken by a market participant rather than your SB provider)...from there, whether you profit or make a loss then comes down to an individuals strategy and ability to anticipate where the market is moving (hence why if you refer to FP Markets earlier post, their traders are by far more successful than those with a market maker- believe it was around 70% successful compared to the industry standard of 90% losing)!
Experience traders knows what they are are trading and why. They are aware of the risk involved and don't blame others for failure. The blame game won't get you anywhere in my opinion. DMA might suite some, a combination might be the right thing for some, and SB yet another group of traders. How FP markets traders are more successful than the trading community in general I don't understand. Could be they attract with their model a lot of experience traders.
____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
I would assume the reason is due to the fact they offer DMA....not going to list the reasons AGAIN as I'll start to sound like a broken record...at the end of the day, DMA attracts the more sophisticated and professional traders! These are the guys who firstly understands the different models on offer, and secondly obviously know what they are doing and understand the markets well enough to ensure that they are making a profit! Your right, different types of trading appeal to different traders, I am voicing my own opinion and attempting to educate those who do not necessarily know the whole story of how the majority of SB companies work, whilst pointing out that there is an alternative out there where you can still have the same tax free benefits of SB, but without the underhand tactics employed by certain SB companies which effectively increases the odds of losses...
The thing is FP Markets have better statistics than trading the futures. Why is that so, when as I understand it is more expensive trading with them compared to trading the futures through IB to give an example. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong about the cost of trading with FP Markets.
____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
The costs of trading through FP Markets have nothing to do with the statistics of how successful/unsuccessful their traders are, I can only assume that their model of DMA appeals to the more sophisticated guys who know exactly what they are doing, hence why they have such a high percentage of successful traders....
Their index futures is more expensive than that of IB, so in that case if you purely trade futures then IB may well be a better choice. Keep in mind though IB don't offer SB, so straight away there goes your tax free winnings!! When you weigh up the advantages/disadvantages of both, personally I'd prefer to pay a little more and keep my winnings tax free! However when it comes to their equities/FX, FP Markets are very competitive in their pricings and comparable to all the other providers out there
I mean if they are more expensive than trading the "real" futures, how can it be that the success rate is higher than trading the general future market, beats me. If you pay more in commission you success rate should be lower, it has not anything to do with the tax issue as I see it. I also wonder how many clients their statistics is based upon. What comes in mind is maybe they have as stated before more experienced traders and traders that mostly trade FX.
____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
I am failing to see exactly what you mean here...the costs involved is completely irrelevant as to whether or not traders are successful, we were speaking with regards to the percentage of successful traders, not what those winnings amount to (which I assume you mean when you refer to 'If you pay more in commission you success rate should be lower')!?
I concede defeat in attempting to explain a very simple thing, I give up
I'd agree that there's no logical reason for FP's clients to be twice as likely to be profitable than any other financial traders, but saying that 90%, 40%, or whatever, of traders lose is pretty meaningless in isolation. To draw any conclusions we'd need to compare how much the winners win with how much the losers lose.
Don't give up so easily.
Totally useless comparison if you don't consider a successful trader to be a trader that ends up with profit (let say after one year of trading) after deducting the cost of trading (commission in this case). If the cost of trading (commission) eats up the profit made, what is the use being on the winning side in the first place?
It is has been my assumption that the losers loses let say 80% and that the winners take home 80% in profit of the money that is on the table.
The commission is a very vital part of trading cost and must of course be included when calculating the ability of profiting when trading with a certain SB or broker.
____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html