CMC - Cancelled my positions - is this legal?

I bet I know what this is related to. It'll be the 'Freaky Friday' syndrome when loads of futures and options expire at the same time. They have some sort of intraday auction to sort all the prices out and things get pretty volatile for 20 minutes or so.

A lot of spread betting companies will have suspended trading during that time.

I knew that was happening too - I'd just forgotten and didn't make the link.

Either way, I still don't think CMC have behaved professionally.
 
Intraday Auction....didn't know about that. Not a bad price then, so it does make CMC look rather foolish as perhaps they should have suspended trading too.
 
At 10:10 the market 'crossed', most likely due to options expiry. At one point the market showed 2432 / 2288. If you traded on this price, then unfortunately they're within their rights to bust the trade because you couldn't have traded it in the real market. I don't know how this would affect CMC's prices, ie. if their markets went crossed too, but to bust both sides of the trades seems a bit harsh. Plus you'd probably expect CMC to aware of this in advance seeing that it happens every month!
 
Between 10.09 and 10.15 am a cursory glance at share prices being quoted by MoneyAM would have shown that in all cases, the bids were higher than the offers. It hus stands to reason that all prices being quoted by the likes of CMC during this period were invalid.

Needless to say that they were well within their rights to cancel the trade once the error had been detected. As the client has not suffered any financial loss as a consequence of their action, there is no genuine basis for complaint. Clients that knowingly engage in such practices are often shown the door by spread betting companies as they regard it as a dishonest practice.

The other way to look at this situation is that if they had honoured the trade, they would have also stopped out so many other trades due to the error in the bid and offer quotes in all of their prices. Then there would have been many more and serious complaints. Alas, we cannot have our cake and eat it too.
 
Thanks For All The Info

Thanks for all the posts.

Looks everybody has the same opinion about CMC.

I have also read previous posts that other forum users have posted about this company which doesnt look very good. So beware if you are thinking of coming to this company as a deal executed deal is not a guaranteed deal with this company.

The position is this was a genuine trade done on an ordinary day and when I made a profit, they withdrew the deal. You can look at this anyway you wish but when the deal has gone through in my book the deal is done. You do not back off on deals you do not like. If I backed out on all the deals I lost on over the years I would be 10,000's pounds better off. I cannot believe a big company like CMC would do such an ungentlemanly trick over a mistake on their side. You would expect there would be some explanation apart from we are cancelling your trade. They did not apologise or admit to be at fault.

There attitude was that it was my fault for putting a trade on at that time. There was no warning that I couldnt trade at that time, it was just the usual dip in the market to me.

I was under the understanding that when you place a trade and the ticket went green that the deal was complete. If the ticket stayed white or came back with some explanation that they could not do the trade that would be fair comment, but when the deal has executed open and closed, I cannot see how they can back out of this position.

It was only a couple of 100 pound and that to me is not in question as I have lost and won 10,000's pounds over the year. It is the principal that a company can treat you like this.

Am I missing something here

I thought the minute or two I was waiting for the ticket to turn green was CMC Dealers looking to see if they can give that price, why am I waiting for the ticket to turn green if they will just reject it later. I am totally lost here. I thought I had it covered


THANKS FOR ALL YOUR INFO IN THIS MATTER, IT HAS JUST TAUGHT ME IF A TRADE EXECUTES THEN IT DOES NOT STAND ANY GROUND WITH CMC.
 
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LION63 said:
Between 10.09 and 10.15 am a cursory glance at share prices being quoted by MoneyAM would have shown that in all cases, the bids were higher than the offers. It hus stands to reason that all prices being quoted by the likes of CMC during this period were invalid.

Needless to say that they were well within their rights to cancel the trade once the error had been detected. As the client has not suffered any financial loss as a consequence of their action, there is no genuine basis for complaint. Clients that knowingly engage in such practices are often shown the door by spread betting companies as they regard it as a dishonest practice.

The other way to look at this situation is that if they had honoured the trade, they would have also stopped out so many other trades due to the error in the bid and offer quotes in all of their prices. Then there would have been many more and serious complaints. Alas, we cannot have our cake and eat it too.

Hi, Lion

Thanks for the info.

I was just frustrated that this was an ordinary trade to me, nothing untowards about it. I just saw a dip in the market like I normally see and deal on the dips that is the principle to spreadbetting to me. If I was going to buy long term position I do deal in traded options,
however I normally use spreadbetting for a quick in and out and for fun, but the whole thing has just lost the whole plot if CMC can cancel your deals at random without any form of explanation after a deal is complete and final.

This was a loss to me as the deal had ended and it showed on my position of about £200 before they decided to wipe it out.

Looks like this company has hit rock bottom in my books.

Thanks again.
 
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Pander,

I can understand your grievance with CMC with regards to this particular trade and I would not be too amused either. However, one day you will end up on the other side of the fence, they will rectify it for you and you will grateful that they are even handed. This is based on numerous experiences that I have had with them.

We must accept that they are a business and not a charity, then one can understand their stance a bit more. It is easy to scan the markets for pricing anomalies and take advantage of them when they arise. It is a practice I used to indulge in quite frequently but they have caught on to it and reduced the frequency etc. It is not unique to CMC either, the reason it is unlikely to happen with IG Index, Cantor etc. is that their spreads are so wide that the mispricing has to be huge for one to benefit whilst with CMC it only has to be a couple of pence.

May I suggest that you take this as part of the learning curve and it will hold you in good stead for the future. Do not take this as a need to go and open other accounts because they are all the same and in most cases more expensive.
 
It could be worse! :rolleyes:
IB will close and liquidate ur account if it goes on margin -call. [option trading] They dont give you a chance to pump money in or to adjust positions. They just CLOSE you OUT!!
Apparently they dont care either!!

Bull
 
IB Margin Overview .
[Sent in by employee of IB.]


IB calculates initial margin requirements at the time of each trade, maintenance margin requirements on a real-time basis, and Reg T margin at the end of each day, and will LIQUIDATE POSITIONS on a real-time basis if there is a MARGIN DEFICIENCY. Real-time margining allows IB to maintain low commissions because IB does not have to spread the cost of credit losses to customers like other non-automated brokers.

All of the calculations below as well as other real-time account statistics can be found in the TWS account window. For a detailed description of the account window and its underlying calculations, see the TWS User's Guide.

It should be noted that all liquidation are subject to the normal commission schedule. Advisor clients will not be subject to advisor fees for any liquidating transaction.

New Position Margin Calculations

Upon submission of an order request, a check is made against real-time available funds. If available funds including the order request >=0 the order is submitted, if it is negative the order is rejected. The following calculations are used to determine available funds:

Securities available funds = Securities equity with loan value - Securities initial margin requirement.

Commodities available funds = Commodities net liquidation value - Commodities initial margin requirement

In addition, you are required to have a minimum of $2,000 or USD equivalent of securities equity with loan value or commodities net liquidation value to open a new position.

Maintenance Margin Calculations

On a real-time basis, excess liquidity is checked to ensure that it's >=0, if it is negative the account is subject to liquidation on a real-time basis. The following calculations are used to determine excess liquidity:

Securities excess liquidity = Securities equity with loan value - Securities maintenance margin requirements

Commodities excess liquidity = Commodities net liquidation value - Commodities maintenance margin requirements

Reg T End of Day Margin Calculations

At the end of each US trading day (15:50-16:00 ET), a Special Memorandum Account (SMA) is checked to ensure that it's > =0, if it is negative the account is subject to liquidation. In addition, no cash withdrawal will be allowed that causes SMA to go negative on a real-time basis. SMA is calculated for all securities (stocks and options) regardless of country of trading as follows:

Special Memorandum Account=Maximum ((Equity with Loan Value - initial margin requirements*), (Prior Day SMA +/- change in day's cash +/- initial margin requirements**))

*
Calculated at the end of the day under US margin rules.
** Calculated at the time of the trade under US margin rules.
Margin Models

Margin requirements are calculated either on a rules basis or a risk basis.

For rule based margin systems, predefined, static calculations are applied to each position or predefined groups of positions (“strategies”). The following instruments are margined using rule based margins:

US stocks, index options, and stock options

Canadian stocks, index options, and stock options

Dutch index and stock options
The calculations for each of these products are described under the Trading/Margin pulldown menu.

For risk based margin systems, exchanges consider the maximum one day risk on all the positions in a complete portfolio, or subportfolio together (for example, a future and all the options delivering that future). The general calculation method is as follows:

Exchange assigns scanning ranges for price movements, volatility shifts, and other risk directions. The ranges are based on observations of historical performance of the underlying instrument.

Every instrument (stock/option/future) is valued over the ranges of price, volatility, etc. The resultant value matrix is distributed to Interactive Brokers on a daily basis.

IB values the (sub)portfolio over the matrix and determines the worst case scenario loss using standard models approved by the exchange.

The margin is calculated as the difference between the current portfolio value and the worst case value
Margin requirements for each underlying are listed on the appropriate exchange site for the contract. A summary of the requirements for the major futures contract requirements as well as links to the exchange sites is available on our Futures Margin Requirements page.

Restriction on Leverage

There is a real-time check on overall position leverage, as follows: The Gross Position Value cannot be more than 50 times the Adjusted Net Liquidation Value. Alternatively, this can be expressed as:

2% securities gross position value > Net liquidation value - Futures option value
Liquidations may occur if the Gross Position Value exceeds more than 50 times the liquidation value.

Universal Account

Although the Universal AccountSM should be viewed as a single account for trading and account monitoring purposes, for regulatory and segregation purposes, there exists a separate securities and commodities account. If there is a margin deficit in either your securities or commodities account, cash will be immediately transferred to protect the margin deficit. At the end of each day, any excess cash in your commodities account will be swept to your securities account.
 
bmittal said:
Hi Guys and Gals, :)

Sorry I'm a bit late on this one.... but I recently had a problem with CMC as well

bmittal,

If you're not happy with CMC's service, I suggest you open an account with another SB firm. If you are a serious trader this is probably a good idea anyway: if one firm cannot take your order, use the other one.

Please let us know if you find another firm that you feel has given you better service, once you have been with them for some time.

Regards,

Mark
 
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