Capitalism

The "self-interest" is the reason that 10% of the world's population owns 90% of the wealth. The exact statistic escapes me, but I think that I am erring on the side of the very rich.

But do you agree that 90% of the worlds population owns the stuff?

Why do you anti-capitalists only focus on the fringe? i.e. The top 10% and bottom 10%?

Why do you anti-capitalists only focus on the money and ignore the consumer/producer relationship?

If 10% of the worlds population owns the money, wouldn't it be logical to conclude that 10% of the world population are the producers and 90% are consumers? How can that possibly be a flaw of capitalism?

You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. You want everyone to have all the stuff and a proportion of all the money...why? All you are doing is consuming! Consuming is easy, producing is hard, yet you deride those who have raised our standard of living by taking risks, again why? It makes no sense.

Capitalists have to earn their wealth by providing society with something it either needs or wants. They earn their wealth through voluntary exchange....and trust me, I am not going to get derailed by your bizarre esoteric theories of bribes, corruption or Mafia!

The wealth of a nation I think is measured by the standard of living of the middle class. This class is by far the largest tax base and consumer base of any nation. Capitalism has made this group larger and wealthier than any system tried around the world. Why not focus on the standard of living of that group instead of the top 10% and the bottom 10% which by nature will have to exist almost regardless of which system you try.

Self-interest makes people work for less money, so as to pay the rent and put food on the table. Human kindness is not a trait that is much seen in capital circles. Self interest is plentiful.

Human kindness doesn't produce anything, human ingenuity does. If someone is motivated by self-interest and gets rich by inventing a cure for cancer, who has benefitted the most? Would anyone cured of cancer really care if the inventor was motivated by his own self-interest?
 
I agree capitalism does have a plus side in producing goods at lower costs BUT it also has its bad side of encouraging waste and the destruction of resources unless Govt holds them to repair the damaged sites. The Brazilian Govt unfortunately shows itself to be very feeble on this front and so the destruction of the forest continues.
 
I agree capitalism does have a plus side in producing goods at lower costs BUT it also has its bad side of encouraging waste and the destruction of resources unless Govt holds them to repair the damaged sites. The Brazilian Govt unfortunately shows itself to be very feeble on this front and so the destruction of the forest continues.

Tragedy of the Commons

In 1974 the general public got a graphic illustration of the “tragedy of the commons” in satellite photos of the earth. Pictures of northern Africa showed an irregular dark patch 390 square miles in area. Ground-level investigation revealed a fenced area inside of which there was plenty of grass. Outside, the ground cover had been devastated.


The explanation was simple. The fenced area was private property, subdivided into five portions. Each year the owners moved their animals to a new section. Fallow periods of four years gave the pastures time to recover from the grazing. The owners did this because they had an incentive to take care of their land.

But no one owned the land outside the ranch. It was open to nomads and their herds. Though knowing nothing of Karl Marx, the herdsmen followed his famous advice of 1875: “To each according to his needs.” Their needs were uncontrolled and grew with the increase in the number of animals. But supply was governed by nature and decreased drastically during the drought of the early 1970s. The herds exceeded the natural “carrying capacity” of their environment, soil was compacted and eroded, and “weedy” plants, unfit for cattle consumption, replaced good plants. Many cattle died, and so did humans.

You can read it all here.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/TragedyoftheCommons.html

You can see this theory in practice. I'm certain if you drove down any street in Britain you would be able to tell, just by the condition of it, who owns their property and who rents.
 
Predatory pricing will always be with us. It takes many guises and difficult to prove from competitive pricing. The ones that are highlighted and reported are also just tip of the iceberg.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ions-of-predatory-pricing-over-fuel-cost.html

http://news.sky.com/story/1511762/us-airlines-face-price-fixing-investigation

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101799842

If you're going to be lazy and just post links without any explanation in your own words, I will do the same.

Some economists claim that true predatory pricing is rare because it is an irrational practice and that laws designed to prevent it only inhibit competition.[4] This stance was taken by the US Supreme Court in the 1993 case Brooke Group v. Brown & Williamson Tobacco, and the Federal Trade Commission has not successfully prosecuted any company for predatory pricing since.


In addition, the predator's competitors know that it cannot keep its prices down forever, and thus need only play chicken to remain in the market, assuming they have the means to do so.

Thomas Sowell explains one reason why predatory pricing is unlikely to work:
Obviously, predatory pricing pays off only if the surviving predator can then raise prices enough to recover the previous losses, making enough extra profit thereafter to justify the risks. These risks are not small. However, even the demise of a competitor does not leave the survivor home free. Bankruptcy does not by itself destroy the fallen competitor's physical plant or the people whose skills made it a viable business. Both may be available-perhaps at distress prices-to others who can spring up to take the defunct firm's place.The Washington Post went bankrupt in 1933, though not because of predatory pricing. But neither its physical plant, its people, or its name disappeared into thin air. Instead, publisher Eugene Meyer acquired all three-at a fraction of what he had bid unsuccessfully for the same newspaper just four years earlier. In the course of time, the Post became the biggest newspaper in Washington. [5]
Critics of laws against predatory pricing may support their case empirically by arguing that there has been no instance where such a practice has actually led to a monopoly.
 
If you're going to be lazy and just post links without any explanation in your own words, I will do the same.

Lazy????

I was trying to give examples of predatory pricing which you suggested does not exist in your post #208


This theory has been discredited by almost every economist on the planet, left and right! This theory only exists in the minds of people who haven't done any research into it.

All businesses hate competition, that's true. However once the competition has been eliminated the remaining business can't raise prices because it provides profit opportunity for a new business to enter the market.


You going off on one of your rants again. (n)
 
Anyone who thinks capitalism is a self-governing mechanism is misguided. It runs, for better or worse, solely within the parameters set by the ruling party or government.

It is the predominately the breakdown and corruption of the Competition Commission, and similar bodies overseas, that has brought about the monopolistic state of the current economic picture. However, despite the apathetic and spineless attitude of consecutive governments (championing capitalism) towards these enormous and influential firms, it is usually the attempts of these same grossly over-bloated companies to constantly innovate and expand both their product offerings and respective market share that inevitably brings about their own destruction, sooner or later.

Thus we reach the inevitable conclusion that greed, in fact, is not good. The entire concept is a fallacy, championed chiefly by those who create nothing.
 
Hi, NT.

You mentioned the Founding Fathers and the Bill of Rights a few posts back.

When they devised that did they believe that there would never be a Rockefeller, a railway robber baron or any of those? When Yeltsin got rid of Communism, did he think that the country's laws would allow oligarchs to take all that capital out and set up shop in London and other financial centres.?

I don't think that that was the original idea.

Do you believe that BP, out of the goodness of its heart, would have paid all that compenstion to the US last month if they had not been forced to? Union Carbide and the chemical disaster in India, killing untold Indians. I believe that they are still awaiting compensation. Thelidamide? The arms industry?

The fracking,to which the government has given the green light?

Capital is destroying the planet but only because it is allowed to do so. Most of the 10% are inheritors, anyway. A fat lot of good they do for the nation. Except spend the money and give the "scrubbers" a job.

I sound like a Communist, don't I? I'm not, really. I don't, even, care for Socialists. I'm just an old man who is looking back on what has happened in his life with a certain amount of realism.

I gotta go, or I could go on and on.
 
Hi, NT.

You mentioned the Founding Fathers and the Bill of Rights a few posts back.

When they devised that did they believe that there would never be a Rockefeller, a railway robber baron or any of those? When Yeltsin got rid of Communism, did he think that the country's laws would allow oligarchs to take all that capital out and set up shop in London and other financial centres.?

I don't think that that was the original idea.

Do you believe that BP, out of the goodness of its heart, would have paid all that compenstion to the US last month if they had not been forced to? Union Carbide and the chemical disaster in India, killing untold Indians. I believe that they are still awaiting compensation. Thelidamide? The arms industry?

The fracking,to which the government has given the green light?

Capital is destroying the planet but only because it is allowed to do so. Most of the 10% are inheritors, anyway. A fat lot of good they do for the nation. Except spend the money and give the "scrubbers" a job.

I sound like a Communist, don't I? I'm not, really. I don't, even, care for Socialists. I'm just an old man who is looking back on what has happened in his life with a certain amount of realism.

I gotta go, or I could go on and on. :LOL:


Great post Splitlink,

I wouldn't qualify for having decent sentiments or common sense.

I'm no socialist or communist either.

(y)
 
I don't agree. I believe that big business influences government. Right wing governments decry any form of legislation. You are right about governments telling us, when they are in power (but I would not say that they are "duping" us) that big business is to blame. They are right, but they are the tools of big business.

Do not tell me that Rio Tinto, BP, Esso, etc. do not influence government. They are the big extractors of the world's resources and, when they have finished extracting in an area they leave it in a shambles, if there is no legislation.

Without being a socialist, I do face realities. The two party system ie. left and right, is useless in today's world. But it is taking us a long time to realise it.


Big businesses do influence government. They are obviously going to not just sell stuff but also encourage the most favourable business environment in which they can make more profit and ensure consistent financial success.

But all powerful lobby groups influence government, and a fine non-capitalist (anti-capitalist) example would be the Communist Party in the former USSR.

As far as global plundering is concerned, this is not unique to capitalist enterprises - its just that a) they're more motivated in finding new opportunities for wealth generation and b) weak politicians like to have a scapegoat, and a wealthy faceless corporation will do fine. All resources belong to one government or another in that they control access to and exploitation of these: if a mining company rips a hole in your state, blame the state government for letting them.

I bet so many politicians are laughing their heads off at the anti-globalisation movements across the world. So many well intentioned sincere people shooting darts at the wrong targets. (plus, I don't like the way they look)
 
Capitalism = Abundance for all

Read about Americas failed experiment with communism and it will become obvious why China is getting wealthier since they started to abandon the communist system.

President Obama has failed to learn the simple basic lesson that the Pilgrims, who established the tradition of Thanksgiving Day in 1623 (not 1621, as often claimed), learned the hard way. The bounteous harvest they were gratefully celebrating on that day was preceded by years of starvation. They arrived in mid-December 1620, and half of them died the first year. Though the Indians helped them survive, the colonists were chronically short of food, and their numbers continued to dwindle.

Under the Mayflower Compact, which governed the colony, "all profits and benefits that are got by trade, working, fishing or any other means" were community property in the "common stock" of the colony. And "all such persons as are of this colony are to have their meat, drink, apparel and all provisions out of this common stock." People were required to put in everything they could - they were forbidden from growing their own food - and to take out only what they needed. It was a policy of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need," centuries before Karl Marx seduced millions of people with those words.


The communal system was such a failure that in the spring of 1623 the Pilgrims feared they would not survive another poor harvest. "So they began to think," wrote the colony's governor William Bradford, how they might raise as much corn as they could, and obtain a better crop than they had done, that they might not still thus languish in misery. At length, after much debate of things, the Governor (with the advice of the chiefest among them) gave way that they should set corn every man for his own particular, and in that regard trust to themselves And so assigned to every family a parcel of land This had very good success; for it made all hands very industrious, so as much more corn was planted then otherwise would have been by any other means the Governor or any other could use, and saved him a great deal of trouble, and gave far better content.

Far from making the people "happy and flourishing," the communal system, wrote Bradford, "was found to breed confusion and discontent, and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort."

Not surprisingly, young men that were able and fit did repine [complain] that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children, without recompense. The strong, or men of parts, had no more division of food, clothes, etc. than he that was weak and not able to do a quarter the other could; this was thought injustice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalized in labor, and food, clothes, etc. with the meaner and younger sort, thought it some indignity and disrespect unto them. Under the circumstances, there was little incentive to produce food. Severe whippings were tried to induce greater production, but they did little more than increase discontent.

The social disharmony, along with the food shortages, disappeared once the concept of private property was introduced and people could keep whatever they produced, or trade it away as they saw fit. In 1647 Bradford was able to write "any general want or famine hath not been amongst them since to this day." Such was the success of the new system that in 1624 the colonists began to export corn, trading it for beaver pelts, other furs, and meat.

In 1624 the Pilgrims took a further step in property rights. The system of assigning land "to every man for his own particular" had certainly increased the production of com, but the assignment was drawn by lot yearly. Thus there was not much incentive for making improvements to one's tillage when someone else might draw that land next year. The men requested of the Governor "to have some portion of the land given them for continuance, and not by yearly lot. ... Which being well considered, their request was granted." Jamestown, the first permanent English colony in America, established in Virginia in 1607, had an experience similar to the Pilgrims at Plymouth. Early years of starvation were followed by converting to a system of property rights and a free market, which brought abundance.


Under collectivism, less than half of every shipload of settlers survived the first 12 months at Jamestown. Most of the work was done by only one-fifth of the men, to whom the socialist system gave the same rations as to the others. During the winter of 1609-10, called "The Starving Time," the population fell from 500 to 60. But when Jamestown converted to a free market, there was "plenty of food, which every man by his own industry may easily and doth procure," wrote the colony secretary Ralph Hamor in 1614.


Under the previous system, he said, "we reaped not so much corn from the labors of thirty men as three men have done for themselves now." We should not underestimate the significance of the experiences at Plymouth and Jamestown. Property rights and free markets were truly revolutionary and fundamental to capitalism. Without them, all the wealth, progress, and human betterment that followed could not have occurred. According to Sartell Prentice, "In England, meanwhile, farming 'in common' continued to be the general practice for another hundred years. Not until the second decade of the seventeen hundreds did 'setting crops for their particular' begin to be slowly accepted in England - and decades were to pass before the new practice became sufficiently widespread to provide an adequate food supply for the population."

Even today, centuries later, there is still inadequate understanding of the importance of property rights and free markets. A recent BBC poll of 29,000 people worldwide found only 11% think free-market capitalism is a good thing. One quarter of those polled said capitalism is "fatally flawed."

There is no shortage of people who want a political system that gives them the fruits of other men's labors, as at Plymouth and Jamestown. And there is an abundance of politicians willing to accommodate them at the expense of other men's property.

The result is repetition of the collectivist systems (socialism, fascism) that have failed in the past, and no end to the discontent and resentment they engender.

But people can be seduced to try them again and again by lofty idealistic statements, eloquent messages of hope, and promises that can never be kept. All of which allow the covetousness of other people's property - whether for personal gain or altruistic, collectivist aims - to masquerade under noble sounding phrases.
 
Read about Americas failed experiment with communism and it will become obvious why China is getting wealthier since they started to abandon the communist system.

President Obama has failed to learn the simple basic lesson that the Pilgrims, who established the tradition of Thanksgiving Day in 1623 (not 1621, as often claimed), learned the hard way. The bounteous harvest they were gratefully celebrating on that day was preceded by years of starvation. They arrived in mid-December 1620, and half of them died the first year. Though the Indians helped them survive, the colonists were chronically short of food, and their numbers continued to dwindle.

..
..

But people can be seduced to try them again and again by lofty idealistic statements, eloquent messages of hope, and promises that can never be kept. All of which allow the covetousness of other people's property - whether for personal gain or altruistic, collectivist aims - to masquerade under noble sounding phrases.

You are on a crusade in your mind beating up the communists.

Are you sure you are on the right thread?

If you said to the Chinese premier you are a party of capitalists what do you think he'll say back to you?

If yo said to the Chinese premier you are a party of communists what do you think he'll say back to you?

If you asked the Chinese premier how he would describe his countries economics how do you think he might reply back to you?


Problem with you as I see it NT is you are arguing and debating with the voices inside of your head and not what people are saying to you.


WE ARE NOT COMMUNISTS!


You have the Bush syndrome. Seek treatment.

You are either with us or against us.

So you are not American but do you have any cowboy hats? :cheesy:
 
Thought it was time now that hhiusa is back on T2W enjoying himself to get back into this debate / discussion / talks on Capitalism

To summarise ( or for our American friends - summarize) - both hhiusa and new_trader are very pro capitalism. They look upon everyone else who has commented so far on the thread as being left wing socialists bordering on being communists/ marxists. They honestly believe that the very strong and very clever should be able to do what the hell they want - and by allowing that the world would be better place ? Please correct me if I have got this part wrong.

Also - they have no regard for majority decisions or what the so called "masses" think or believe - instead only the strong and clever count ( also blue eyed ) and therefore everyone else who is maybe not so strong - ie the older folks , the injured and the disabled cannot have a say in the "world" etc - they must stand in line and accept the consequences of counting themselves lucky just to have a life.

New_Trader who says he in not an American, believes in their Capitalist ways - ie small weak government controlled by ultra right wing banksters like our friends Goldman Sachs ( slightly going off subject - I do hope the Greek government sue the bar stewards for stitching them up - GS have got away with too much already in this last 30 yrs ) - and hhiusa loves the fact that n_t "hates" yes "hates socialism" simply because he knows what human nature is like - and of course ultra right wing capitalist are not human and of course just do not suffer from the frailties of us normal human beings ( lol).

I had thought this discussion could remain sensible .

I believe many of the contributors do see the benefits of " controlled capitalism" except hhiusa and n_t

I also think most of the contributors also see the benefits of a strong government - that serves the majority of law abiding people in a country and gets the balance right between controlled capitalism and decent common sense socialism - that does not just pander to the idle - but acts as a "safety net" - so to stop a country having a load of people with mental illness problems (who cannot afford the costs of medicines ) going around shooting right wing capitalist and any other "types" that don't fit in with the type of world they would like

Maybe I am showing a bias here - or showing my weaknesses - ie a Capitalist with emotion and feelings for other humans ??

Regards


F
 
Just supposing NT and cowboy lost all their money in the markets. For how long would they still be capitalists with the " I'm alright Jack and stuff the rest" mentality ?

Maybe a morals court should be set up to keep imposing fines until they change their callous attitudes.
 
To summarise ( or for our American friends - summarize) - both hhiusa and new_trader are very pro capitalism. They look upon everyone else who has commented so far on the thread as being left wing socialists bordering on being communists/ marxists. They honestly believe that the very strong and very clever should be able to do what the hell they want - and by allowing that the world would be better place ? Please correct me if I have got this part wrong.

New_Trader who says he in not an American, believes in their Capitalist ways - ie small weak government controlled by ultra right wing banksters like our friends Goldman Sachs ( slightly going off subject - I do hope the Greek government sue the bar stewards for stitching them up - GS have got away with too much already in this last 30 yrs ) - and hhiusa loves the fact that n_t "hates" yes "hates socialism" simply because he knows what human nature is like - and of course ultra right wing capitalist are not human and of course just do not suffer from the frailties of us normal human beings ( lol).


I also think most of the contributors also see the benefits of a strong government - that serves the majority of law abiding people in a country and gets the balance right between controlled capitalism and decent common sense socialism - that does not just pander to the idle - but acts as a "safety net" - so to stop a country having a load of people with mental illness problems (who cannot afford the costs of medicines ) going around shooting right wing capitalist and any other "types" that don't fit in with the type of world they would like

Maybe I am showing a bias here - or showing my weaknesses - ie a Capitalist with emotion and feelings for other humans ??

F

Republicans and Tories do not believe in strong government. They want less taxes, less regulation, weaker central governments. You want more government oversight, more taxes to support the disenfranchsied and safety nets. All your words about strong government are very liberal and left-wing.

Maybe I am showing a bias here - or showing my weaknesses - ie a Capitalist with emotion and feelings for other humans ??

Proof that you are a bleeding-heart liberal.

You are obsessed with Goldman Sachs. Is it that the only absconding company you can think of? No one around me cared about Goldman Sachs. Capitalism is doing just fine here.

"Survival of the fittest". In all facets of nature including economics, and at all levels, fitness is promoted. fit = endowed with phenotypic characteristics which improve chances of survival and reproduction.
Neurons that do not carry their weight do not receive NGF and are killed to build axons to neurons that are pulling their weight.
People that do not produce (jobs, money, etc.) will make less money and not buy health insurance. They may get sick more and are less likley to propogate their genes.
Cheetah and Lions eat other weaker prey.
 
If your house catches fire cowboy and NT would be haggling for charging extortionate rates to turn up with a fire engine. How mean can a person get ?

They have the morals of the mafia and the USA is also changing into that mode. They don't realize that no one will turn up to help them if they have that attitude. Short sighted.
 
hhiusa - All you say above only works if you are either the only market society in the world or one which is so large it can be considered self-sufficient. The latter might actually be true (for the present) for the US.

However, in the UK, we have to compete with other countries on a par with us, ahead of us or catching up fast. We need a well educated healthy workforce of 20 or 30 million people to compete with other nations for business. In some sectors we currently lead, in some we lag, but nothing stands still so complacency isn't acceptable (we tried that already - referring to the collapse of the British Empire).

We can't expect businesses to be philanthropic or patriotic so capitalism won't nurture our kids so that in 20 years they will be good value workers. But it makes absolute sense within a capitalist framework to develop our best resources in order to secure long-term ROI.

Meantime, all the rest of the world can only hope the US continues to under-develop its human resources' opportunities, taking the pressure of the rest of us. What we're talking about is survival of the fittest nation.
 
Republicans and Tories do not believe in strong government. They want less taxes, less regulation, weaker central governments. You want more government oversight, more taxes to support the disenfranchsied and safety nets. All your words about strong government are very liberal and left-wing.



Proof that you are a bleeding-heart liberal.

You are obsessed with Goldman Sachs. Is it that the only absconding company you can think of? No one around me cared about Goldman Sachs. Capitalism is doing just fine here.

"Survival of the fittest". In all facets of nature including economics, and at all levels, fitness is promoted. fit = endowed with phenotypic characteristics which improve chances of survival and reproduction.
Neurons that do not carry their weight do not receive NGF and are killed to build axons to neurons that are pulling their weight.
People that do not produce (jobs, money, etc.) will make less money and not buy health insurance. They may get sick more and are less likley to propogate their genes.
Cheetah and Lions eat other weaker prey.

I am more Tory than Labour or Liberal over the last 40 yrs.

However - I have a brain - I am an individual - I will not be "pigeon holed or labeled" as Tory sheeple - I agree with a lot of Tory policies - but not all of them

I want a strong government - the type that cares and is not susceptible to the very rich and powerful - and does not bend to the unions and left who want total change. Many citizens of the US would not understand this - ie "neutrality" - ie being able to identify and balance "the good the bad and the ugly" in society and to me the ugly includes really bad crooks / murderers / rapists etc whether they are rich or poor in terms of money wealth

With regards to Cheetahs and Lions - they live in the jungle . I do not want to live in the jungle - nor return to slavery - I want to live in a civilised fair and just world - with balance - rather than think of "me - me - me and me" all the while.

Maybe that shows I am no longer young and wild - I have matured ?

Regards

F
 
I am more Tory than Labour or Liberal over the last 40 yrs.

However - I have a brain - I am an individual - I will not be "pigeon holed or labeled" as Tory sheeple - I agree with a lot of Tory policies - but not all of them

I want a strong government - the type that cares and is not susceptible to the very rich and powerful - and does not bend to the unions and left who want total change. Many citizens of the US would not understand this - ie "neutrality" - ie being able to identify and balance "the good the bad and the ugly" in society and to me the ugly includes really bad crooks / murderers / rapists etc whether they are rich or poor in terms of money wealth

With regards to Cheetahs and Lions - they live in the jungle . I do not want to live in the jungle - nor return to slavery - I want to live in a civilised fair and just world - with balance - rather than think of "me - me - me and me" all the while.

Maybe that shows I am no longer young and wild - I have matured ?

Tories are all of these things, and you do not want any of them. You have agreed with Atilla in wanting taxes raised upon the wealthy just because they are wealthy. Even if you hold a modicum of their ideology, you are more Labour than Tory. You, Atilla and others have been against the Brexit. Cameron is proposing a Brexit referendum.

Tories
Economic policy
Opposition to the European single currency. The Conservative Party pledged an in-out referendum on membership of the European Union after renegotiation. Current proposals have this referendum taking place in 2017.

Since coming to power, they have decreased taxes.

Social policy
The social policy of Conservatives shows up in such things as tax incentives for married couples, the removal of the link between pensions and earnings, and being against public financial support for those who do not work.

Education policy
the Conservatives have increased tuition fees to £9,000/year.

Republicans
Economic policy
Laissez-faire capitalism
decrease taxes
Pro business - many states have very low franchise tax, state tax and sales tax or none at tall.

Social policy
It is very similar to Tories.
Tax incentives for married couples.
Make unions fund themselves more from their own investment and less from the state and federal government. People should not be paying for someone else's huge pensions when they reitre.

Education policy
Want more private institutions free from government mandate. Want the federal government not to let students walk out on their debt. If you think £9,000/year is bad, try $40-50K.
 
Tories are all of these things, and you do not want any of them. You have agreed with Atilla in wanting taxes raised upon the wealthy just because they are wealthy. Even if you hold a modicum of their ideology, you are more Labour than Tory.

NO - a lot more Tory.

I think you only know or see "black or white"

I want taxes reduced for the low paid - get them working rather than take a previous option to be on the dole and receive more benefits. So if we can reduce benefits then we can reduce taxes overall.

I never want any multi millionaires taxed more than 50% max - even if they earn £10 or 50 million a year . I want 20% of taxes to the low paid under 10% - 80% of taxes to the majority spread up to a maximum of 35% and then 35% to 50% tax on the minority who earn more than say treble or quadruple the norm.

The Tories are in favour of the "living wage" now in the UK - in the past some companies only ever paid the minimum and the state topped up - that wrongs - that the past.


You, Atilla and others have been against the Brexit. Cameron is proposing a Brexit referendum.

Most Tories - ie the majority want a better agreement with the EU - so we have more controls over out borders and the size of out apples etc ( yes some EU rules and regulations are pure silly ).

We dont want to leave the EU - we want to change and improve it .

If we cannot do that - then I would be in favour of leaving - no problem


Tories
Economic policy
Opposition to the European single currency. The Conservative Party pledged an in-out referendum on membership of the European Union after renegotiation. Current proposals have this referendum taking place in 2017.

Since coming to power, they have decreased taxes.

Social policy
The social policy of Conservatives shows up in such things as tax incentives for married couples, the removal of the link between pensions and earnings, and being against public financial support for those who do not work.


I agree with more Tories policies than I dont agree with - no problem

I disagree with more socialist policies - then the ones that are very good - ie NHS - best in the world - but could be improved - to many drunks , druggies and obese get things FREE - thats wrong

The welfare state - ie why should poor children under 16 suffer because their parents have been made redundant etc - because some some overseas company can get away paying peanuts to workers in other countries and so leave the UK - that's socially and morally wrong as far as I am concerned


Education policy
the Conservatives have increased tuition fees to £9,000/year.

Republicans
Economic policy
Laissez-faire capitalism
decrease taxes
Pro business - many states have very low franchise tax, state tax and sales tax or none at tall.

Social policy
It is very similar to Tories.
Tax incentives for married couples.
Make unions fund themselves more from their own investment and less from the state and federal government. People should not be paying for someone else's huge pensions when they reitre.

Education policy
Want more private institutions free from government mandate. Want the federal government not to let students walk out on their debt. If you think £9,000/year is bad, try $40-50K.

Don't you think the Americans could improve their governments and make them fit for purpose ? - ie 21st Century policies and regulations et not blooming 18th Century Bill of Rights stuff ???
 
I am not for majority rule. The majority is usually the least educated, the most apathetic, unhealthiest and poorest.

The "tyranny of the majority"
- John Adams

Tories are all of these things, and you do not want any of them. You have agreed with Atilla in wanting taxes raised upon the wealthy just because they are wealthy. Even if you hold a modicum of their ideology, you are more Labour than Tory.

NO - a lot more Tory.


I think you only know or see "black or white"

I want taxes reduced for the low paid - get them working rather than take a previous option to be on the dole and receive more benefits. So if we can reduce benefits then we can reduce taxes overall.

You say that you want to take care of the poor but want to reduce benefits. It sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

I never want any multi millionaires taxed more than 50% max - even if they earn £10 or 50 million a year . I want 20% of taxes to the low paid under 10% - 80% of taxes to the majority spread up to a maximum of 35% and then 35% to 50% tax on the minority who earn more than say treble or quadruple the norm.

The Tories are in favour of the "living wage" now in the UK - in the past some companies only ever paid the minimum and the state topped up - that wrongs - that the past.

You, Atilla and others have been against the Brexit. Cameron is proposing a Brexit referendum.

Most Tories - ie the majority want a better agreement with the EU - so we have more controls over out borders and the size of out apples etc ( yes some EU rules and regulations are pure silly ).

We dont want to leave the EU - we want to change and improve it .

If we cannot do that - then I would be in favour of leaving - no problem

Being in favor of leaving the union? This is the first that I am hearing this from you.

Tories
Economic policy
Opposition to the European single currency. The Conservative Party pledged an in-out referendum on membership of the European Union after renegotiation. Current proposals have this referendum taking place in 2017.

Since coming to power, they have decreased taxes.

Social policy
The social policy of Conservatives shows up in such things as tax incentives for married couples, the removal of the link between pensions and earnings, and being against public financial support for those who do not work.

I agree with more Tories policies than I dont agree with - no problem

I disagree with more socialist policies - then the ones that are very good - ie NHS - best in the world - but could be improved - to many drunks , druggies and obese get things FREE - thats wrong

The welfare state - ie why should poor children under 16 suffer because their parents have been made redundant etc - because some some overseas company can get away paying peanuts to workers in other countries and so leave the UK - that's socially and morally wrong as far as I am concerned

That is not a Conservative view. Companies are doing tax inversion because of the high taxes there. The companies are saying, if you will not lower taxes then we will have to move offshore or overseas. I certainly do not blame them for doing this. If the government wants them to discontinue this practice, then they should incentivise businesses to stay and not alienate them.

The poor generally have more children than the middle class and than the wealthy. This is ironic because they are the least able to afford them. They leech from the system. Instead of throwing more money at the problem, maybe we should spend money upon educating the poor so that they do not proliferate like bunnies.

Education policy
the Conservatives have increased tuition fees to £9,000/year.

Republicans
Economic policy
Laissez-faire capitalism
decrease taxes
Pro business - many states have very low franchise tax, state tax and sales tax or none at tall.

Social policy
It is very similar to Tories.
Tax incentives for married couples.
Make unions fund themselves more from their own investment and less from the state and federal government. People should not be paying for someone else's huge pensions when they reitre.

Education policy
Want more private institutions free from government mandate. Want the federal government not to let students walk out on their debt. If you think £9,000/year is bad, try $40-50K.
 
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