PualoP, I've already stated everything I know about all this and due to the nature of trading during the news these were scalping trades so it looks like that is what they don't like. Simon said they allow the placing of stop orders during news. He's never stated that scalping is not allowed for as long as I have been following this thread. Nor could I find anything that bans it in their terms and conditions. That's why I have been asking him why the trades were cancelled since they do not appear to have broken any rules but he has not given an answer.
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I suspect there are ways of abusing the spread bet platform around big news anouncments particularly using market orders that probably would not work in the real market.
Will not go into them on here and I would imagine the sb's would be onto you pretty quickly anyway.
Will not go into them on here and I would imagine the sb's would be onto you pretty quickly anyway.
Exploiting a weakness of the platform isn't 'cheating', though. It's up to the SB to fix their system.
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To me good trading is about developing your trading skills in order to be profitable not exploiting a weakness in a particular platform.
capitalspreads
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ross spur
Ross you are wrong in that you claim it 'harms' our clients. How can it harm them when they get a better price both to buy AND to sell than in the 'real' market. Try to come up with an example where a widened spread on the real market transfered to a narrower spread on ours is "bad" for clients.
plus
"Exploiting a weakness of the platform isn't 'cheating', though. It's up to the SB to fix their system"
remind me of this comment when someone clones your debit card, finds a "weakness in the system(sic)" steals all your money and then the bank refuses to refund your money. It always sounds cosy when it is someone else.
Simon
Ross you are wrong in that you claim it 'harms' our clients. How can it harm them when they get a better price both to buy AND to sell than in the 'real' market. Try to come up with an example where a widened spread on the real market transfered to a narrower spread on ours is "bad" for clients.
plus
"Exploiting a weakness of the platform isn't 'cheating', though. It's up to the SB to fix their system"
remind me of this comment when someone clones your debit card, finds a "weakness in the system(sic)" steals all your money and then the bank refuses to refund your money. It always sounds cosy when it is someone else.
Simon
I don't remember when I said harming clients, but if you didn't read it, see previous post #6587 for an example of where a narrower spread would work against the punter.
As it happens, I did have my debit card cloned a few years ago and it's a very unpleasant experience, but there's no parallel between an outright criminal act like that and sitting at a computer spread betting, using CS's platform and supplied prices, on CS's terms. I don't know what it is that the poster was supposed to be doing, but it seems you somehow always assume clients are engaged in fraud.
capitalspreads
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sorry your post on 6587 says
"For instance, in your example, what if the underlying EU price went from 1.4049-1.4050, to 1.4040-1.4050, and then back to 1.4049-1.4050 without trading lower than 1.4049? Your quote would QUITE CLEARLY be an error, so a trade could be incorrectly stopped out. How would the average punter be able to know the truth? Seems like a fundamental flaw to me."
errrr do you actually read what you write? If the underlying market goes to 1.4040-1.4050 then ummm... that is the real underlying market. There is no error. Do you want LCG to quote this price? Widening our price out to 10 pips? Because this is what actually happened in the real market. Why is our price "clearly an error"?
why would our price of 1.4045-1.4046 be wrong? Just because nobody actually trades at 1.4040 does not make the quote incorrect. All market activity moving from one price to the next ends with either a price going offered (or bid) but the bid below it (offer above it) not being traded OR with the bid (offer) holding steady, trading at the price but not going offered (bid).
Just because a bid / offer spread in the real market might not trade does not mean that Capital Spreads should not move its price.
i.e. if the FTSE future goes 5880-5881 to 5879-5880 and then back to 5880-5881 but 5879 never trades are you suggesting that we should not move our price to 5879-5880 to reflect the market move?
anyway we will have to agree to disagree on this subject
as i repeat over and over again. We quote a price derived from the underlying market. we dont adjust it, bias it, try to force the market to hit stop levels or tinker with it in any way to the detriment of our clients. We just quote it.
Yet again I find myself asking for a real example of Capital Spreads acting in anything other than a professional manner at all times. If people deliberately find a way around our processes and then try to benefit from it then that is their choice. Please do not imagine that LCG will just sit back and do nothing if we find it though.
Simon
"For instance, in your example, what if the underlying EU price went from 1.4049-1.4050, to 1.4040-1.4050, and then back to 1.4049-1.4050 without trading lower than 1.4049? Your quote would QUITE CLEARLY be an error, so a trade could be incorrectly stopped out. How would the average punter be able to know the truth? Seems like a fundamental flaw to me."
errrr do you actually read what you write? If the underlying market goes to 1.4040-1.4050 then ummm... that is the real underlying market. There is no error. Do you want LCG to quote this price? Widening our price out to 10 pips? Because this is what actually happened in the real market. Why is our price "clearly an error"?
why would our price of 1.4045-1.4046 be wrong? Just because nobody actually trades at 1.4040 does not make the quote incorrect. All market activity moving from one price to the next ends with either a price going offered (or bid) but the bid below it (offer above it) not being traded OR with the bid (offer) holding steady, trading at the price but not going offered (bid).
Just because a bid / offer spread in the real market might not trade does not mean that Capital Spreads should not move its price.
i.e. if the FTSE future goes 5880-5881 to 5879-5880 and then back to 5880-5881 but 5879 never trades are you suggesting that we should not move our price to 5879-5880 to reflect the market move?
anyway we will have to agree to disagree on this subject
as i repeat over and over again. We quote a price derived from the underlying market. we dont adjust it, bias it, try to force the market to hit stop levels or tinker with it in any way to the detriment of our clients. We just quote it.
Yet again I find myself asking for a real example of Capital Spreads acting in anything other than a professional manner at all times. If people deliberately find a way around our processes and then try to benefit from it then that is their choice. Please do not imagine that LCG will just sit back and do nothing if we find it though.
Simon
I agree. They should not rely on their clients to assist in their software developing as I think you already mentioned.
Yes, looks like we'll have to disagree, but include the para before the one you quoted and I think you'll get the original point. Viz, if you have a fixed spread and the underlying spread widens (without necessarily trading at a those levels), the price will tend to be 'wrong' in retrospect, and yet you apparently are able to reverse trades on that basis after the event, even though you know that such errors are going to be generated.
In your FTSE example above, the spread stays the same, so it's irrelevant.
<<Whether it's unfair or an error really depends on how you look at it. You've quoted the mid price using your system and that's what we have to trade on at the time. It could be a 'fair' price based on info available, but in retrospect it will also probably be a 'wrong' price in relation to the underlying real market. >>
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Yes, by exploiting a weakness in the platform I was referring to trading by placing orders that might be filled by a SB but not in the real market.To me, that's not cheating, and has absolutely nothing to do with computer hacking or fraud, as Simon seems to believe. We have to trade their prices, so why should we be liable for what they later decide is a mistake, when it's the result of the way their platform works?
Well that's exactly the case I put to Simon regarding this trader who has had his trades reversed by LCG. He placed several buy and sell stop orders over several days which were filled during news and then cancelled by LCG 2 weeks later. He traded on their prices, used the functionality of their platform, they filled him at prices which can be referenced on their own charts at the time. Yet, they later decided that it was not ok.
Just got a bonus offer from capital spreads and was going to exploit it. What stops me is unclear T&C
Do you have a link to fair use policy? How do you define "abuse"? If I make one trade after the bonus granted will it count as "account was used for trading"?
I think T&C should be clearer and should not use such vague terms as "abuse". Examples also could help. Clear T&C make life for bonus hunters a lot easier.
Thank you.
Do you have a link to fair use policy? How do you define "abuse"? If I make one trade after the bonus granted will it count as "account was used for trading"?
I think T&C should be clearer and should not use such vague terms as "abuse". Examples also could help. Clear T&C make life for bonus hunters a lot easier.
Thank you.
If you know the facts and in the absence of a proper explanation, refer it to the FOS.
capitalspreads
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wow mr 6am wants us to facilitate 'bonus hunters'
why am i not thrilled by this.
simon
why am i not thrilled by this.
simon
B
Black Swan
Perhaps you should employ a few bounty hunters, I see Ross is already on someone else's radar..
On the other hand, CS should perhaps not make these offers if it's all too much hassle to make the T&Cs clear.
capitalspreads
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i am not quite sure what you consider to be 'clear' .
If you do not use the bonus for trading why would we give you the money?
The bonus is for genuine accounts who just want to open an account, fund, trade win or lose etc... it is a 'Bonus'. There are many forms of Abuse i.e where the only reason for opening the account was to get the Bonus with no intention of trading, Using multiple account opening methods, ochestrating multiple account opening methods. etc etc
Hardly unreasonable but then i am sure that you will all disagree with me.
virtually every single spread betting /cfd company uses this method so you might as well ask them all why they do so.
Simon
If you do not use the bonus for trading why would we give you the money?
The bonus is for genuine accounts who just want to open an account, fund, trade win or lose etc... it is a 'Bonus'. There are many forms of Abuse i.e where the only reason for opening the account was to get the Bonus with no intention of trading, Using multiple account opening methods, ochestrating multiple account opening methods. etc etc
Hardly unreasonable but then i am sure that you will all disagree with me.
virtually every single spread betting /cfd company uses this method so you might as well ask them all why they do so.
Simon
Please don't get paranoid, Simon. I agree with you about this, as I do about flushing out those who really are trying to profit by nobbling your platform in some way, but 6am just seemed to want clarification, which seems reasonable.
