Can you be long and short at same time?

Atilla said:
Intent to mislead (manipulate) market.

Genius in spotting a flaw in the system.

Pump and dump.

Fact that the system facilitates this kind of manipulation is a flaw imho. :rolleyes:

Fact he spotted and made a million - dare I say well done. :cheesy:
Click to expand...

It's got sod all to do with spotting flaws in systems as such.
Rotter was clearly playing and in control of his own game...he didn't dance to anyone else's tune...they all danced to his. Like all people who are top of their game.

Never let it be said I don't tell you everything. :LOL:
 
counter_violent said:
It's got sod all to do with spotting flaws in systems as such.
Rotter was clearly playing and in control of his own game...he didn't dance to anyone else's tune...they all danced to his. Like all people who are top of their game.

Never let it be said I don't tell you everything. :LOL:
Click to expand...

Dont get me wrong hes a well known pro but algos win in this game i dont think he made that much money year in year out , its a bit tight and crowded ....
 
tar said:
Dont get me wrong hes a well known pro but algos win in this game i dont think he made that much money year in year out , its a bit tight and crowded ....
Click to expand...

I don't think he's doing the manual EUREX stuff anymore.
As you say its all algos now, growing since 07, RSJ and STIRs for instance.

He did all that in early / mid part of last decade.
Looks like he's gone the algo route himself now:
http://www.rotterinvest.com/
 
counter_violent said:
It's got sod all to do with spotting flaws in systems as such.
Rotter was clearly playing and in control of his own game...he didn't dance to anyone else's tune...they all danced to his. Like all people who are top of their game.

Never let it be said I don't tell you everything. :LOL:
Click to expand...

If a business entity did this it wouldn't be allowed.

Putting up orders you have no intention of filling with a view to moving the market only for you to take the opposite side. Brings GoldmaSachs to mind for some reason. (n)

Call it what you will. :sleep:
 
Liquid validity said:
See the red highlight.
He wasn't long and short at the same time.
http://www.trading-naked.com/library/paul-rotter-trader-monthly.pdf

I can't copy paste an extract from that PDF as the text formatting is busted.
Screen shot below instead.

He was using limit orders - not market orders.
He did not have open positions long and short at the same time.
Although he may have done that with a long market on schatz and a
simultaneous short on bobl as an example, I don't know.
Point is he was never long and short in the same market with open trades.
He was basically pulling the p1sser of DOM traders.
Click to expand...

(y)

DOM traders get exactly what they deserve...morons...
 
If they are in the same index or contract,most companies will let one cancel the other so you will be flat. Some companies allow you to force open positions that mean both will be open.

Its been discussed on this thread at length and quite simply it is a pointless exercise and and only increase your entry costs. You wouldn't bet on black and red on a roulette wheel at the same time,would you? It can only work in futures where you may buy a june contract and sell a march contract. Period
 
Lord F's right. Accept the risk of a loss, it doesn't mean a mistake was made in entering, its just a statistical certainty that some trades will take a direction your analysis had not identified as most probable. No risk of loss means no risk of gain. But manage the damage.
 
tar said:
Just called my broker they told me : consider yourself long and short the market !
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How on earth do you make money doing this,you are flat.Whats the point in being flat? It can only be an emotional reason for doing this?
 
Lord Flasheart said:
Come on Tar,you are a long serving very well respected member of this site, sure you do not think it serves any purpose,please explain.
Click to expand...

I agree with just being sarcastic ... technically i am long and short all markets .
 
tar said:
I agree with just being sarcastic ... technically i am long and short all markets .
Click to expand...


Yes, we're all about to become millionaires. And we're all about to lose a million.

Actually, this reminds me of conversations with private pension recipients who were insistent they were not investors in the stock market casino.
 
tomorton said:
Yes, we're all about to become millionaires. And we're all about to lose a million.

Actually, this reminds me of conversations with private pension recipients who were insistent they were not investors in the stock market casino.
Click to expand...

yep,they all think because a guy in a suit told them it was a good thing with security that they were not gambling.
 
They thought the money they received per month was just a direct fraction of what they had paid in when working in the earlier decades in factories and schools. As if that would have added up!
 
Why would I want to trade long and short on the same instrument, in the same account at the same time? As you know, trading signals can show up on any timeframe and traders frequently find themselves deciding between holding a longer term position or trying to trade in and out in a shorter time frame. Why don’t we remove that decision and free ourselves up to trade in multiple time frames on the same instrument.

Lets say we are long 10 contracts on the Emini S&P 500 Futures ($ES_F). Let’s say we have been holding this position for several days and plan on continuing to hold until the weekly trend turns around. Now, what if we see a nice short setting up in our smaller time frame chart shown below right? We scalp against our long term position and manage each separately.

Now we take our shorter term short “scalp” position and hope for a small pullback. If all goes well, we catch the pullback, however our longer term position stays in place and we can continue holding it for several days until the longer term trend ends.

With this advanced technique, you can now hold a longer term position while at the same time take advantage of moves on the smaller time frame. Traders who are able to successfully accomplish this technique and scalp additional profit from the minor moves in the market reduce risk in their longer term positions while at the same time can hold on for longer and more profitable runs.
 
Cyberraul said:
Why would I want to trade long and short on the same instrument, in the same account at the same time? As you know, trading signals can show up on any timeframe and traders frequently find themselves deciding between holding a longer term position or trying to trade in and out in a shorter time frame. Why don’t we remove that decision and free ourselves up to trade in multiple time frames on the same instrument.

Lets say we are long 10 contracts on the Emini S&P 500 Futures ($ES_F). Let’s say we have been holding this position for several days and plan on continuing to hold until the weekly trend turns around. Now, what if we see a nice short setting up in our smaller time frame chart shown below right? We scalp against our long term position and manage each separately.

Now we take our shorter term short “scalp” position and hope for a small pullback. If all goes well, we catch the pullback, however our longer term position stays in place and we can continue holding it for several days until the longer term trend ends.

With this advanced technique, you can now hold a longer term position while at the same time take advantage of moves on the smaller time frame. Traders who are able to successfully accomplish this technique and scalp additional profit from the minor moves in the market reduce risk in their longer term positions while at the same time can hold on for longer and more profitable runs.
Click to expand...


There is perhaps some rationale of setting both a buy and a sell order at different prices at the same time. Say you believe a dramatic break-out is due soon but you don't know which direction is significantly more probable than the other.

Then again, is this market really the uniquely best place to put your money?
 
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