Can the Labour party re-invent Socialism ?

[Pat494]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/26/jeremy-corbyn-team-shocked-momentum

What can the Labour movement do to re-invent itself ? Anything ?
Jeremy Corbyn is having some success talking about re-nationalising things like the railways. I seem to remember they weren't up to much as a nationalised industry. Plenty of strikes and grubby trains. The old idea of having attractive railway stations and friendly staff went under nationalisation.

Nobody born after 1980 can remember how British industry was torn apart with perpetual strikes of one sort or another.

Maybe they could copy a successful system of having a Union member on every Board and helping the company rather than destroying it.

 

[0007]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/26/jeremy-corbyn-team-shocked-momentum

What can the Labour movement do to re-invent itself ? Anything ?
Jeremy Corbyn is having some success talking about re-nationalising things like the railways. I seem to remember they weren't up to much as a nationalised industry. Plenty of strikes and grubby trains. The old idea of having attractive railway stations and friendly staff went under nationalisation.

Nobody born after 1980 can remember how British industry was torn apart with perpetual strikes of one sort or another.

Maybe they could copy a successful system of having a Union member on every Board and helping the company rather than destroying it.

The Labour Party is imploding upon itself. The reason it has no future as such is because its origins were based upon the needs of its day which no longer apply. The LP became irrelevant after Thatcher by which time it had completed the UK's needed social reforms. (Note: Blair was never a Labourite - he just hijacked the party).


I believe It will now go the way of Greece's Syriza with the same disastrous consequences for UK if it ever gained power - which would be quite possible with the voting power of a younger generation who don't remember or don't study the disasterous era of Wilson/Callaghan/Benn unionism of the 1970s. The one possible salvation of this once great Party might be through a breakaway group like the SDP of the 1980s. But none of the current contenders for leadership appears to have the bottle.


It's always a dangerous situation when one party has all the power - even more incredibly so since Dave has such a slim majority. All this down to the Scottish vote - and now it's becoming apparent that they want to have another go at exiting UK. Uncertain and interesting times eh?

 

[Pat Riley]

The current four candidates do indeed provide an opportunity for Labour to reinvent itself. A fairly narrow spectrum from lacklustre to Left which is a welcome change from lacklustre to centrist. As for “attractive railway stations and friendly staff” you’d need to go back to 1880, not 1980. At least if Corbyn gets the job we can all have a good laugh.

 

[0007]

If you're wanting to hasten the demise of the Labour Party the best value you can get is a £3 sub which will entitles anyone to vote in the leadership election. I gather a lot of Dave's mates are exercising this option. ........... what a farce !

 

[counter_violent]

If you're wanting to hasten the demise of the Labour Party the best value you can get is a £3 sub which will entitles anyone to vote in the leadership election. I gather a lot of Dave's mates are exercising this option. ........... what a farce !

Yes I read an article on this just yesterday....there is a general apathy amongst mainstream socialists almost certainly brought about by their general election defeat. However, the militant and organised lefty elements have spotted an opportunity under the one member one vote system, coupled with mischievous right wing types, who for the poultry sum of 3 quid can ensure Corbyn gets elected. This will spell the end of the Labour party as we know it.

Absolutely hilarious spectacle it is !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33667699

 

[hhiusa]

Reinvent socialism? The Labour party is already socialist.

 

[tomorton]

Socialism as a core philosophy for state management is surely discredited. The LP could try to re-invent it - but why?

 

[Pat494]

Socialism as a core philosophy for state management is surely discredited. The LP could try to re-invent it - but why?

To get elected
Not too difficult when the 40% cuts take effect.

 

[tomorton]

40% cuts will never happen. But whatever level the cuts do come in at, socialism's not an answer. Whether to cut or not is not even an issue, the public have basically agreed cuts are necessary: remember, Labour are committed to cuts too to cut down the deficit.

Socialism isn't just not an answer, there isn't even a question.

 

[Pat494]

40% cuts will never happen. But whatever level the cuts do come in at, socialism's not an answer. Whether to cut or not is not even an issue, the public have basically agreed cuts are necessary: remember, Labour are committed to cuts too to cut down the deficit.

Socialism isn't just not an answer, there isn't even a question.

I agree socialism has never had the answer to economic competition. It's more of a happy families club for unions etc.
However there may be an answer that would knock the socks off greedy boss driven capitalism. They could re-invent THE TEAM. Particularly in Britain the companies split into 2 teams within every company. The bosses/management on the one hand and workers on the other. Well no team that is so basically divided has a hope of winning the business battle. Even surviving is tough.
If Labour made this their central platform with a union member on the board I think they might live again. It works in Germany and it can work here.
They could tackle the inequality of wages/salaries. They should encourage employees to be on a graded scheme of say 10 ranks. The bosses should not be on massive salaries while the rest fight over the crumbs as it is even in the BBC.

 

[tomorton]

Is that actually how Germany has the living standard and GDP it does?

 

[Pat494]

Is that actually how Germany has the living standard and GDP it does?

Happy workers will do a lot better for a company that values them imho.

Remember that film " I'm alright Jack " ? A comedy but full of unspeakable truths.

hhiusa rabbits on about how marvellous capitalism is but they have serious social and mental health problems with such an unequal wealth distribution system. A minimum wage of $7.25 is just so mean.

 

[0007]

Happy workers will do a lot better for a company that values them imho. ........

Yep! Just look at Nissan & Toyota here in UK and even the old strike-ridden Oxford plant now under BMW/MINI - all seems ok in those places now doesn't it. Says a lot about foreign ownership/management.

 

[hhiusa]

Happy workers will do a lot better for a company that values them imho.

Remember that film " I'm alright Jack " ? A comedy but full of unspeakable truths.

hhiusa rabbits on about how marvellous capitalism is but they have serious social and mental health problems with such an unequal wealth distribution system. A minimum wage of $7.25 is just so mean.

That is just the federal minimum wage.

£6.50 per hour ($10.21) (aged 21+), £5.13 per hour ($8.06) (aged 18–20), £3.79 per hour ($5.95) (under 18), £2.73 per hour ($4.29) (apprentices aged 16 to 18 and those aged 19 or over who are in their first year).

The youngest age a child in the UK can work part-time is 13. Very strange. That would definitely be illegal here.

Children under 16
School-aged children aren’t entitled to the National Minimum Wage.
https://www.gov.uk/child-employment

If you are allowed to work at 13, then it means there is a possibility that your deadbeat parent could make you get a job at 13.

 

[Pat494]

You are such an idiot. That is just the federal minimum wage.

£6.50 per hour ($10.21) (aged 21+), £5.13 per hour ($8.06) (aged 18–20), £3.79 per hour ($5.95) (under 18), £2.73 per hour ($4.29) (apprentices aged 16 to 18 and those aged 19 or over who are in their first year).

The youngest age a child in the UK can work part-time is 13. Very strange. That would definitely be illegal here.

Children under 16
School-aged children aren’t entitled to the National Minimum Wage.
https://www.gov.uk/child-employment

If you are allowed to work at 13, then it means there is a possibility that your deadbeat parent could make you get a job at 13.

That old adage seems relevant " if you pay peanuts you get monkeys ". and very upset people. If you are part of that 5% elite in the USA you probably need to live behind high fences with security guards ! The democraps don't represent the interests of the poor. Oh no - just another bunch of rich people.

 

[hhiusa]

Germany did not get to be a 50% bigger economy than the UK by being socialist. They have a GDP/capita mucher higher as well.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Reinvent socialism? The Labour party is already socialist.

Labour is already hard core left. If Comrade Corbyn wins it will be out and out Communist. He refused to deny at the weekend that he is a Marxist.
Blair > Brown > Miliband > Corbyn.
A whole new meaning to "from the sub-bliar to the ridiculous".

 

[Atilla]

That old adage seems relevant " if you pay peanuts you get monkeys ". and very upset people. If you are part of that 5% elite in the USA you probably need to live behind high fences with security guards ! The democraps don't represent the interests of the poor. Oh no - just another bunch of rich people.

I find it a bit rich that pphhis calling you an idiot.

So much for being not rude. There was some international study that showed company figure heads get paid 1000s x more than the lowest. The Swiss was going to put some rule/regulation in place to prevent it - if I recall correctly.

Bob Diamond really really effed up Barclays imo. They are still trying to undo his freaking mess. The cleaners keep doing the usual good work. Cleaners ability to eff up is limited. Risk/Reward about right.

However, top cheeses Risk/Rewards totally out of balance with respect to risk/reward. They take no risks and cream the rewards. How stupid is that. Capitalism indeed...

Just to re-iterate - Barclays pays out 50% of company profits as bonuses to 500 top executives whilst 50% (slightly less in fact) go to shareholders in 100,000s as dividends.

They then bang their drum about capitalism and pooh pooh regulation or lack of it.


Muppets haven't a clue. NT used to turn everything into a debate about the gold standard and fiat currencies and now we have this smart alek who turns everything into a debate about capitalism v socialism without ever discussing the subject matter in hand.

Thhis ****-head couldn't think his way out of a wet paper bag. There he is calling our esteemed member Pat an idiot.


I hope people don't ever place him in a position of responsibility to eff-up... Can see him deflecting his capitalist BS on everyone around him rather than assume responsibility and face reality.

 

[Atilla]

On the politics of it all, I think seeing the Labour party implode inwards likely to be a good thing to some respect for the Liberal Democrats.

Always liked them. They talk good sense and balance imo.

Prefer them to Labour and believe they worked well with the Tories in coalition to get us here. They didn't do too well in the elections but deserve better I reckon.

 

[Mr. Charts]

On the politics of it all, I think seeing the Labour party implode inwards likely to be a good thing to some respect for the Liberal Democrats.

Always liked them. They talk good sense and balance imo.

Prefer them to Labour and believe they worked well with the Tories in coalition to get us here. They didn't do too well in the elections but deserve better I reckon.

Yes, they definitely deserve a ninth MP.......

I look forward to the LDs having more MPs than Labour though ....