Calling all traders who "get it"

[jm1054]

So, I stayed away from a couple of trading forums for 9 years but stopped by recently to hear what others thought of the ESMA proposals.

Then, I got embroiled in a couple of discussions and remembered why I left all those years ago. Btw, T2W is the best forum out there imho, its members are a lot more civilised!

Anyway, to cut a long story short, wanting to leave again has me a little sad because I know there are traders out there who "get it" and with whom I could have a healthy discussion, but I fear they are exactly the type of people who would probably stay away.

Trading is a lone project, and I have no problem with that. I love the fact that self-responsibility and self-awareness are required to succeed. However, it would also be great to touch base with other like-minded traders. It seems people like me are happy to go their own way, to the detriment of the group.

So, with a view to getting a group of like-minded traders together, I am sticking my neck out and starting this thread. Let's just call it an optimistic experiment.


In order to not have this thread go off at a tangent, some assumptions have been made:

- Making a living trading is most definitely possible and many of us are doing so, whether it be through SB, CFDs or any other vehicle.

- Mindset is the most important factor in trading success, self-awareness paramount.

- We trade in order to improve our lives in a whole multitude of ways, with the view to being happier, healthier and better humans.

- Living a better life makes us better traders.

- Humility is cool, bravado is not.

- We don't have to take it all too seriously.


Therefore, I respectfully ask that anyone feeling the need to protest against these assumptions do so on another thread rather than clutter up what I hope to be a supportive group of traders sharing their views and communicating positively.

Thanks for reading!

 

[gerryg]

Thanks? Any advices directly related to trading, i.e. general approach like books, platforms, brokers, other stuff?

 

[jm1054]

Thanks? Any advices directly related to trading, i.e. general approach like books, platforms, brokers, other stuff?

Hi Gerry

Thanks for posting

I obviously can't give any specific advice, as what works for me might not work for you but I can certainly share some ideas based on personal experience.

Hopefully some other traders will share their thoughts too.

There are plenty of books out there but my real learning happened by doing, not reading about doing. I re-read the Market Wizards series every year though, plenty of great nuggets of wisdom in there.

As for general approach, my policy is to keep the mechanics of trade selection as simple as possible. Once I reduced the distraction by external "clutter" as much as possible, it was much easier to get to the really important (mindset) work. As such I am a minimalist trader, which would certainly not suit everyone's temperament. Minimalist charts (no indicators or candlesticks), minimal instruments (4 currency pairs), minimal number of trades (on average 0-2 trades a week).

As for brokers, I can safely say that my trading turned around once I deeply, truly believed that my broker was not out to get me. There is so much negativity about brokers but I knew that in order to succeed, I had to put the idea that my broker would thwart my success out of my head. That way, any errors of judgement are mine and mine alone, giving me even more mindset stuff to work on! So, I would say that being happy with your broker is essential.

I hope that gives you some things to think about. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Jay

 

[NVP]

hey Jm ............good to see you back ..........

I'm not as active as i used to be here even though im F/T trading again .....but T2win is a nice forum with a lot of decent people out there as you say ...........i am on a lot of other forums as well which are brutal on less experienced traders .....unless you have a decent reputation .....

always happy to chew the cud

N

 

[NVP]

read absolutely everything you can get your hands on ..........you will soon get to learn the filters in your trading head once you get more experience ........

I try to hoover in everything i can ....discarding as i go if its no use to me ..ebooks , threads , youtube .whatever

learn about all aspects of trading and then start disgarding all the superfluous stuff rapidly you dont need .............what you keep is up to you as an individual trader ...no one can tell you what to use ...........thats all up to you

I would say keep it relatively simple though ..the more rules you have the more paralysed your trading becomes ......use what works and accept everyone has to take losses at times ....thats trading

brokers are an important part of the machine ..........you need one you trust ....then negociate for decent rates and always get on their back if you feel something went wrong ....and remember paying a few extra percentage points for comms and spreads is worth it if the Broker is still around to pay you back your profits one day .........getting paid is better than a Broker going under with your money as many do

and of course trading , gambling , whatever ........this is a lifestyle choice..if you dont like it then dont trade ...........the best traders in the world are doing it because they love it .....not just the money ......

ive been gambling since i was a kid and trading since the 1980's....its in my blood and I love it .......so thats my story

N

 

[piphoe]

it's true that significant pysch obstacles must be overcome, but that's only the half of it. the other half is congruence with market at least 1/2 that time, and the other half get out!

 

[jm1054]

hey Jm ............good to see you back ..........

I'm not as active as i used to be here even though im F/T trading again .....but T2win is a nice forum with a lot of decent people out there as you say ...........i am on a lot of other forums as well which are brutal on less experienced traders .....unless you have a decent reputation .....

always happy to chew the cud

N

Thanks Neil!

Yes some forums are... brutal is the word!

 

[piphoe]

i'm a visual & intuitive trader...if had to describe myself this is it. math was never my best subject...i see patterns..not numbers..maybe in my deep mind's eye i turn those patterns into numbers...i don't no.that's just me

had my druthers i'd be a number cruncher...but not my aptitude..gotta go with your strengths

in keeping with thread's central idea, my pscychology needed a bit of tweaking too

 

[tomorton]

............As for brokers, I can safely say that my trading turned around once I deeply, truly believed that my broker was not out to get me..................

This is such a healthy observation.

Trading is so much psychology that attitude is a huge influence on profitability. I have voiced to many people that if you regard trading as a head to head competition between you and the broker, who actually wants to wipe you out, its going to cause you to deploy lots of wrong behaviour and pervert your decision-making away from profit-making. I'm sure this attitude can even bring about the result these guys most fear.

Good words mate, unfashionable but correct.

 

[jm1054]

and of course trading , gambling , whatever ........this is a lifestyle choice..if you dont like it then dont trade ...........the best traders in the world are doing it because they love it .....not just the money ......

N

Agree! It is definitely a lifestyle choice!

It's hard to explain to those who don't understand (well, I don't even try to be honest) that even when I'm not actively trading, I'm probably thinking about it. Not necessarily the mechanics of a trade, but loads of other stuff, money management, psychology, what it means to be a trader... As an example last week I only traded 2 set-ups and was in the market for less than a couple of hours in total but I was "working" all week. I don't mean looking at charts but being focussed on the profession, if that makes sense?

So here's a question to you all:

What makes you a trader? By some definitions, trading twice in a week means that time-wise I would be classed as a part-time trader. But, for me it is a full-time occupation.

As a trader, are you working even when you are doing things that support your trading? Is the trader who swims for an hour every day to keep tip-top physically and mentally, working during that hour? (If so, can a trader off-set their gym membership against tax? )

What about meditative walks along the beach? An essential tool in my trading plan but not considered work by most definitions!

Maybe all the non-trading stuff that supports our trading should feature much more heavily in our trading plans... Does anyone actually list non-trading stuff in their trading plans e.g. exercise routine, diet, mindset exercises?

 

[jm1054]

it's true that significant pysch obstacles must be overcome, but that's only the half of it. the other half is congruence with market at least 1/2 that time, and the other half get out!

Cut your losses? Deffo!

 

[jm1054]

i'm a visual & intuitive trader...if had to describe myself this is it. math was never my best subject...i see patterns..not numbers..maybe in my deep mind's eye i turn those patterns into numbers...i don't no.that's just me

had my druthers i'd be a number cruncher...but not my aptitude..gotta go with your strengths

in keeping with thread's central idea, my pscychology needed a bit of tweaking too

Intuition is very powerful and under-rated in a lot trading info imho. Knowing that you are a visual person and acting on that knowledge means that your are way ahead of those who don't have the self-awareness to know either way.

Anyway, charts are beautiful!

 

[piphoe]

Cut your losses? Deffo!

Easy to say, "Cut your losses". What, after a tick, ten, twenty, hundred?

Cut your losses is such a hackneyed useless phaseology in today's algo driven world.

Might as well say, "Take the profit idiot"! No sh^t WHERE

 

[piphoe]

Anyway, charts are beautiful!

they are most beautiful ..

there's money in those charts...lots of it

if you just know how to get it out.

not saying i do, yet, just saying the potential is there..it's obvious

lol i always feel like i'm missing this ONE piece of the puzzle, and once i get that unlock the secret to profitability.

i'm working on it, night & day. willing to put the time in, and no sacrifice not really because i love it.

ps if i never "get" there will consider this a colossal waste of time. however, i remain confident based on what i'm seeing now..

 

[jm1054]

Easy to say, "Cut your losses". What, after a tick, ten, twenty, hundred?

Cut your losses is such a hackneyed useless phaseology in today's algo driven world.

Might as well say, "Take the profit idiot"! No sh^t WHERE

Fair point "cut your losses" is a bit vague and over-used!

You know, I don't think it really matters when (as long as there is consistency) just when the trade is not doing what you envisaged it would (& I use "envisaged" on purpose because we often visualise how we would like the trade to pan out, especially someone who is visual).

That's why simple set-ups are great - it either works or it doesn't. Sharp break-outs are a great example, they either go or they don't. If it's not working out it's pretty obvious when to get out.

 

[jm1054]

This is such a healthy observation.

Trading is so much psychology that attitude is a huge influence on profitability. I have voiced to many people that if you regard trading as a head to head competition between you and the broker, who actually wants to wipe you out, its going to cause you to deploy lots of wrong behaviour and pervert your decision-making away from profit-making. I'm sure this attitude can even bring about the result these guys most fear.

Good words mate, unfashionable but correct.

Thanks Tom

It can't be healthy to be in a constant battle with your broker. I remember realising years ago (when I was trading more frequently) that for every trade that hit my stop by 1 pip then reversed, there was a trade that hit my limit by 1 pip then reversed!

I wonder how much blaming the broker is a diversion to not have to face the real problem: the trader!

As someone told me once "if you are driving around thinking all the other drivers are idiots, maybe you are the idiot and they are all driving fine!" In other words, if you are blaming everyone/everything else, maybe you are the problem.

 

[piphoe]

Fair point "cut your losses" is a bit vague and over-used!

You know, I don't think it really matters when (as long as there is consistency) just when the trade is not doing what you envisaged it would (& I use "envisaged" on purpose because we often visualise how we would like the trade to pan out, especially someone who is visual).

That's why simple set-ups are great - it either works or it doesn't. Sharp break-outs are a great example, they either go or they don't. If it's not working out it's pretty obvious when to get out.

if you "get in intuitively get out intuitively", keep it consistent that makes sense and you'll find out real quick if you have an intuitive edge OR NOT

 

[jm1054]

if you "get in intuitively get out intuitively", keep it consistent that makes sense and you'll find out real quick if you have an intuitive edge OR NOT

Learning to trust your intuition is the hard part. That and knowing whether what you are hearing at any given time is your intuition or something less helpful.

Here's a thought:

How about getting in intuitively but getting out with a set SL and TP? One less thing to worry about i.e. whether or not you used your intuition on exiting the trade.

 

[piphoe]

Learning to trust your intuition is the hard part. That and knowing whether what you are hearing at any given time is your intuition or something less helpful.

Here's a thought:

How about getting in intuitively but getting out with a set SL and TP? One less thing to worry about i.e. whether or not you used your intuition on exiting the trade.

how does this help. my entry is subjective and my SL arbitrary????

pretty much what i am doing now.

 

[jm1054]

how does this help. my entry is subjective and my SL arbitrary????

pretty much what i am doing now.

Mmmmm, OK, let's say trade entry is your edge, and importantly knowing when not to trade is an important part of your edge.

If your exit is arbitrary (but consistently arbitrary over a series of trades), then that doesn't negate the fact that your edge has been played out on entry.

Once entries on intuition have become second-nature, then things can be improved by using intuition on exit too.

Or not. If you are profitable using intuition on entry alone, maybe you would choose not to complicate things.

Just a thought. Happy for my "logic" to be challenged!