Brokers that GUARANTEE no slippage...

Here's my summary of what's been reported so far (with a few pieces of information gleaned from other threads):

Its easier to have a decent relationship with your broker, when you use a regulated firm. That probably means trading the forex <b>futures</b> on theGLOBEX exchange at the CME. So what's different?

Globex contracts are not limited like other commodity futures contract (the exchange doesn't have any artificial 'circuit breakers' to stabilise the price - it is tied very closely to the interbank forex) And the forex futures trade the same hours as Forex, but with less liquidity during parts of the day/night when most people are asleep.

The smallest thing you can trade in the futures arena is the e-mini EURO (ticker sign is E7). It's 62,500 Euros per contract, so that is $6.25 per tick. Looks like minimum accounts for retail traders is about 3K, maintenance margin on one contract is about $1,200. (seems like too small a minimum to handle even one contract if you ask me...) For a small trader, looks like commissions ($11 round trip) and spread of 1 pip are to be expected. (So figure 2 pips/trade) Futures contracts also have volume data, which you can't get on a straight forex position. I have never seen a futures broker say that they are willing to guarantee that you won't have to pony up additional margin if something goes wrong.

The retail forex shops have a smaller margin and initial account minimums, and you can trade a 0.1 contract with them (one pip = $1). They also say they guarantee no debit balances (they'll pull the plug automatically if your margin gets too low). There spreads are bigger (3-5 pips for the EUR/USD) - and there is no commission.

Both offer demo accounts,webtrading platforms, charts, news, feeds, etc..

Seems like the retail forex shops are designed for those who are new to forex, who want to dabble or to run through a proof of concept exercise with the minimum amount of $$$. Or for those who just want to plow in and lose the money quickly ;) The Futures route may allow you to lose more money even faster if you work it right....

If I had real money on the line, I'd want a regulated broker.... There also seem to be regulated Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) and the National Futures Association (NFA) brokers who also offer the retail unregulated forex options... That would be my second choice if I felt like I didn't want to do the futures for some reason.
JO
 
Thanks JO,

Just a couple of minor corrections :)

The commission on E7 is $6 per round trip not $11. The spread is usually 2 pips, though can vary between 1 and 5.

Anyone who is thinking of trading it should be aware of its illiquidity. e.g trading it around news is likely to be very scary.

However I do occasionally use it for hedging the bigger contract as with careful limit orders at quiet times it is usually possible to get in and out where desired.
 

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I've never traded E7 around a key data release. The worst slippage I've had on EUR is 2 pips but I've not been trading it more than a couple of months, I've not tried to open a position after the NF payroll data (yet) and I'm very often in position before data are released anyway. As a general rule slippage on EUR is neglible, even during most news items, BUT I reckon after something surprising like the last NFP data you could be looking a 20-50 pips. JonnyT has been trading this contract longer so he may know better.

I am forward testing a system live so will be able to tell you more in a month or so.

Obviously you can use tight stop limits to avoid entry slippage, though the danger is no fill at all as the price gaps through your level then goes on to make a 150 pip move in your favour. Or you can risk a lot of slippage to almost guarantee a fill by using loose stop limit orders.
I use 50 pip stop limits as I believe in "being in to win" but many would say this is foolish. You takes your choice!
 
E6 ($12.50 per tic) is a much better choice than E7. It has a lot more liquidity and is the most liquid CME currency future.
 
frugi said:
I've never traded E7 around a key data release. The worst slippage I've had on EUR is 2 pips but I've not been trading it more than a couple of months, I've not tried to open a position after the NF payroll data (yet) and I'm very often in position before data are released anyway. As a general rule slippage on EUR is neglible, even during most news items, BUT I reckon after something surprising like the last NFP data you could be looking a 20-50 pips. JonnyT has been trading this contract longer so he may know better.

I am forward testing a system live so will be able to tell you more in a month or so.

Obviously you can use tight stop limits to avoid entry slippage, though the danger is no fill at all as the price gaps through your level then goes on to make a 150 pip move in your favour. Or you can risk a lot of slippage to almost guarantee a fill by using loose stop limit orders.
I use 50 pip stop limits as I believe in "being in to win" but many would say this is foolish. You takes your choice!

On the NFA I used to always get a fill with little slippage using Stop Limit orders. Now I cannot get a fill.

I really think the EUR Futures market has changed in the past few months. Perhaps more volume?

JonnyT
 
JonnyT said:
On the NFA I used to always get a fill with little slippage using Stop Limit orders. Now I cannot get a fill.

I really think the EUR Futures market has changed in the past few months. Perhaps more volume?

JonnyT
Volume has been increasing for some time and it has accelerated in recent months when CME cut the fees for currency futures. That said, during important economic releases the futures can outrun the cash and then get smacked back into line by arb computers. Sometimes this can be severe; I don't remember which release it was but a few months ago some got their face ripped off by almost 100 tics. This happens in about a second so if you are not getting the number release from Bloomberg Pro or Reuters it will probably happen before you see the number.

 
blue_seraphim said:
forex.com - platform seems so tiny for my 17-inch monitor, demo it and dosen't seem to allow stop entry (can anyone advise contrary?) guarantee to fill is what they say.

Hello, blue_seraphim,
Forex.com allow stop entry (stop loss, stop profit and stop limit and trailing stop in the forextrader platform) and, during trading hours, they respect all the stops.

Regards,
sysf
 
"i can confirm this now my friends, fxcm do actually gun for your stops without shame. just today, when the cpi news came through, fxcm took out the short trades (cable), wipe them clean before allowing the prices to go up. just look at their charts, it's based on their bid price. i got 3 other charts of different platforms running at the same time, none did what fxcm did. these guys have the audacity to 'deviate off-course' by at least 20 pips. i'm getting out, this is no way to trade."

Unfortunately due to spot forex being a non exchange based and non-regulated product, market makers such as FXCM can move their price wherever they want to. They can create the effect of increased volatility that isn't actually reflected in other data sources. Because of such manipulation, it amazes me that traders try to make a living on such an non-level playing field.

However, it is also hard with spot forex to compare a brokers price to a price in the 'underlying market', because it is so hard to find an 'official' underlying market price. Different spot forex dealers use select groups of liquidity providers who quote different prices. Also, different spot forex datafeeds are also based on select groups of liquidity providers. Therefore it seems that there can be no right and no wrong price to quote at any one time.
 
This leads to another questions.............what is the best datasource to use, in order to compare a spot forex dealers quoted prices with the underlying market, in order to get themost 'official' view of current prices available in the interbank market?

I have heard of the s&p comstock feed, which i think provides a market average of prices for over 20 of the largest banks in the world.

There's also GTIS - that provides a composite feed from over 200 of the largest interbank players.

Would these two datasources suffice?

I've also heard of EBS, what is this, who can gain access to it and how expensive is it?

Cheers

jtrader.
 
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jtrader said:
This leads to another questions.............what is the best datasource to use, in order to compare a spot forex dealers quoted prices with the underlying market, in order to get themost 'official' view of current prices available in the interbank market?

I have heard of the s&p comstock feed, which i think provides quotes from 20 of the biggest interbank players.

There's also GTIS - who provide quotes from 200 of the largest interbank players.

Would these two datasources suffice?

I've also heard of EBS, what is this, who can gain access to it and how expensive is it?

Cheers

jtrader.
S&P Comstock is better than GTIS. If you find a better feed than S&P and GTIS that you can use with common charting software please let me know. EBS is the best, it's on Bloomberg Pro, but it comes through a fraction of a second delayed on Bloomberg (even when you are directly conected with a T1 line) so it's hard to scalp off of.
 
You can view S&P Comstock data by signing up for a free trial of the Aspen workstation at http://www.aspenres.com/index.php?fa=ContactUs.Main For GTIS try calling Futuresource and asking them which forex data supplier they use. I just did a free trial of their workstation and although I didn't get the name of the provider, the data looked like GTIS. CQG uses GTIS but I don't think they offer a free trial.

Hope this helps

Cheers
 
TRADERguy said:
You can view S&P Comstock data by signing up for a free trial of the Aspen workstation at http://www.aspenres.com/index.php?fa=ContactUs.Main For GTIS try calling Futuresource and asking them which forex data supplier they use. I just did a free trial of their workstation and although I didn't get the name of the provider, the data looked like GTIS. CQG uses GTIS but I don't think they offer a free trial.

Hope this helps

Cheers
If you look at CQG site, it now says they use EBS data.
Rob
 
blade said:
If you look at CQG site, it now says they use EBS data.
Rob
Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to stop searching for a cheaper platform and go back to CQG.

Cheers
 
JonnyT

FWIW I have done some quick sums, and I can tell you that these reveal that average daily Tick Volume on the EUR spot market has gone up by approx 80% in the last year, with a big surge around Feb/March 04 onwards. The Pound is even greater - ca 100% increase. The futures data from the CME backs this up, and is given below.

I dont know if this explains the fill problem. I would have thought that the liquidity should have been great enough to cope ?

rog1111

JLY 2004 MONTH AGO YEAR AGO JAN-JLY 04 JAN-JLY 03


BRITISH POUND FUT # 373,410 427,762 214,871 2,449,032 1,363,838
EUROFX FUT # 1,491,220 1,682,155 866,150 10,623,155 5,995,984


JonnyT said:
On the NFA I used to always get a fill with little slippage using Stop Limit orders. Now I cannot get a fill.

I really think the EUR Futures market has changed in the past few months. Perhaps more volume?

JonnyT
 
"S&P Comstock is better than GTIS"

Hi TRADERguy

why do you say that the S&P Comstock feed is better than the GTIS feed?

I would have thought that because the GTIS accesses data from 200 market makers, compared with the average of around 20 market makers that the SD&P comstock feed accessses, the GTIS feed may be more dependable?

Thanks

jtrader.
 
"i can confirm this now my friends, fxcm do actually gun for your stops without shame. just today, when the cpi news came through, fxcm took out the short trades (cable), wipe them clean before allowing the prices to go up. just look at their charts, it's based on their bid price. i got 3 other charts of different platforms running at the same time, none did what fxcm did. these guys have the audacity to 'deviate off-course' by at least 20 pips. i'm getting out, this is no way to trade."

To be fair to fxcm, I also have 3 other charts from other spot fx providers. All of them show the same spike. In fact. all other 3 had higher (ie more volatile) spikes than fxcm.

I don't think this can be taken as an example of fxcm "gunning for stops" when others also have the same price spike. (Unless your'e a big conspiracy theory beleiver).
 
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