Broker Stopped Out What should I do in this situation??

[bigboyssupplements]

I made a trade with my broker and had to leave the house so put a 20 pip stop loss and 20 pip profit. I watched price action from another broker on my iPhone while I was out and price spiked 2 pips away from my target so I thought I would be safe.

When I got home I checked mt4 and I got stopped out. But when I looked at the chart price It was like the other broker was almost 2 pips from my target so I don't know how I got stopped out? Is this foul play by my broker or am I wrong, I have attached a photo.

Can I complain to my broker and will I be reimbursed for my profits?

Stop Loss = 0.84909
Broker Stopped Me Out = 0.84891 I'm assuming, because that's the highest it got
TP = 0.84509 Price hit the target and more So would of been up 20 pips

 

[jayhfd]

I just had the same thing yesterday. My charts from Premium Data/Norgate are 4 points different from what my CFD provider is showing me.

The price I was stopped out at apparently never actually occurred during the day (again according to Norgates data). Ie, the high for the day was like 1033, yet apparently my stop was hit at 1035. I've asked them to confirm why that happened. Should be interesting.

 

[Black Swan]

Can I complain to my broker and will I be reimbursed for my profits?

No and no...charts are indicative. IMO you're being too precious re. one trade; if you 'stay in' by 2 pips consider yourself very, very fortuntate. Think of it like referee decisions measured over a season, it evens out is the accepted wisdom...

Take a step back and rather than blame the broker/sb firm/hurl around the accusations ask yourself what you could do differently in order to avoid a similar situation in the future? Bigger stop? Not always the answer...No Stop? Ditto...Just ride with the blows and move on, just keep on playing your edge and you'll probably win more than lose.

 

[pboyles]

If you are spreadbetting or trading CFDs then this is going to happen to you. It's just another way of taking money off you. Unless you trade direct market access then you will always be vulnerable to this type of thing. If you dig deep enough you will find you signed terms and conditions that allow them to give you their own price and not the price in the real market.

No doubt there will be an angry response from the spreadbet/CFD companies to my post but you've seen it for yourself.

 

[shadowninja]

The spread may be an issue here. You may have been looking at the bid price but the offer price mattered in this case, or perhaps for whatever reason (news/data?), the spread was widened.

 

[bevok]

I'd agree that thats pretty likely - all part of the business. Is 84891 the mid price? Also with currencies there isn't a "price" there are a range of quotes in an over the counter market, so while one provider might quote 84891 the other might be quoting 84910 for a moment. This is one reason it can be beneficial to trade futures, although at the end of the day its trading, you'll get obvious stops hunted when order flow is needed. There was a small swing high around those levels earlier so there was probably a little bunch of buy orders around there that were filled. My feed shows the ask traded at that level, assuming you're talking about the 1045 BST candle.

 

[Black Swan]

If you are spreadbetting or trading CFDs then this is going to happen to you. It's just another way of taking money off you. Unless you trade direct market access then you will always be vulnerable to this type of thing. If you dig deep enough you will find you signed terms and conditions that allow them to give you their own price and not the price in the real market.

No doubt there will be an angry response from the spreadbet/CFD companies to my post but you've seen it for yourself.

Interesting point I get/got far more "price is no longer valid" with dma than SB. Honestly I cannot recall the last time I got a bad fill SB-ing...and if I do so what? 5hit happens... As I said 'up thread' you can't be too precious re. one single trade.

Here's a thing, as you know I swing the majors (and oil) offa 3/4 hr TFs, and I now have a *cure* for my constant irritability and need to be doing something in the form of playing EU off adjusted tick charts (as opposed to 3-15mins)...

Anyhow, I had a series of tick chart losers in the week, 8 of 'em, iirc it was Tues, one was only 4 pips loss but the signals told me to get out and I did, then signalled to go the other way so I did... etc...etc...don't think just fookin do...

Point is years back I'd have thought the market was against me, the broker/SB firm is out to get me, I'll never make this work, there's only one winner...However, you just keep on working your edge and quelle surprise, next 2 trades brought me back to virtually breakeven for the day trading aspect of my trading...Now one of those 8 losers could have been a bad fill, during the 14/15 trades I opened/closed a couple of times I got price no longer valid costing me a couple of pips etc..but that simply goes with the territory, it's what we get/expect/do...

 

[pboyles]

Well I trade futures DMA and I never have that problem. I suppose with forex it depends on whether your broker is trading against you or not. The only issue I have ever seen is one or two ticks slippage on the mini Dow but that has 1/10th the volume of the bigger contracts and it was back when I used tradestation, now with Global on the bund and ES I am seeing none.

 

[meanreversion]

I had two interesting incidents last week in futures with IB.

In CAD, I was long 4 futures of Sep (the lead contract) with a stop at 9545. I wasn't really watching spot but it was around 60-65 when suddenly I get an alert to tell me my stop is done at 9473. I looked at time & sales, sure enough the low was 9540 and almost immediately it rallied 40 pips (very odd). I called IB up to check and they confirmed the level of my fill (28 pips BETTER than the rate).

In GC (gold) I was long with a stop at 1225.20. Clearly there was a lot of interest at this level, because when it triggered, I was filled at 1221.30 (!!). But upon looking at t&s, over 3,000 contracts traded at that exact same time, i.e. it was a lot of stops going off.

So, you win some you lose some. I keep a record of all my trades and all the slippage (whether +ve or -ve) and so far this year it comes to about 1 pct of my equity.

My real concern now is if any of the commodities I trade have moves like we've seen in copper and oats.. that could get ugly, but as BS says, sh*t happens..

 

[pboyles]

What's the daily volume on that contract?

 

[meanreversion]

About 100,000 in both. The CAD incident was not over a figure or data, around 8.45am London time, so pretty weird.

 

[pboyles]

That's pretty low volume, bunds, eurostoxx and mini S&P are all over a million, is it gapping?

 

[meanreversion]

Mini S&P is ludicrously high volume, it's not normal.

With the ccy futures, don't forget every bank in the world has people/systems arbing futures and cash, so there's little scope for it to get out of line (because cash is v v liquid).

 

[meanreversion]

I don't know if I'd classify gold as "illiquid", it's not like S&P but there's enough going on there, although there is the occasional gap (but you can see that even in EUR/USD cash spot on occasion).

 

[bigboyssupplements]

The spread may be an issue here. You may have been looking at the bid price but the offer price mattered in this case, or perhaps for whatever reason (news/data?), the spread was widened.

But doesn't the spread come in when u place the order, and my stoploss is where my stoploss is no matter of the spread.

I realize you win some and you lose some but your never going be given a take profit 2 pips early from your target.

I just want to know how I could of been stopped out when the chart didn't hit my stop loss or any other charts I've looked at.

 

[charliechan]

bigboy - you need to understand what you are 'trading'. with spread betting, retail fx and any other product which doesnt have a centralised exchange, the 'broker' (ie bucket shop) can make any price he wants.

what happened to you is like walking in to tesco and seeing apples for sale at 20p, then walking into waitrose and seeing them for sale at 18p, and drawing the conclusion that apples in tesco must therefore now be 18p as well.

go back to basics and understand the industry and the rules before placing another trade. you may want to read the disclaimers too. i know it isnt fun, but trading tends to be either boring and profitable, or exciting and a great way to lose money. up to you.

 

[ns1000]

I made a trade with my broker and had to leave the house so put a 20 pip stop loss and 20 pip profit. I watched price action from another broker on my iPhone while I was out and price spiked 2 pips away from my target so I thought I would be safe.

When I got home I checked mt4 and I got stopped out. But when I looked at the chart price It was like the other broker was almost 2 pips from my target so I don't know how I got stopped out? Is this foul play by my broker or am I wrong, I have attached a photo.

Can I complain to my broker and will I be reimbursed for my profits?

Stop Loss = 0.84909
Broker Stopped Me Out = 0.84891 I'm assuming, because that's the highest it got
TP = 0.84509 Price hit the target and more So would of been up 20 pips

Have I read that right - you were short with a buy stop at 8490.9, and you've been filled at 8489.1. Definitely complain - how can you be filled with positive slippage on a stop? It's a stop, not an If Touched order.

 

[bigboyssupplements]

No I sold at 0.84709 and put a SL of 0.84909. I got stopped out at 0.84891 before It even hit my stop loss.

It has happened to me before that's why I want to complain. It shouldn't matter about the spread because my SL is where my SL should be! I have attached a clearer photo so you can see properly.

http://i47.tinypic.com/9up0z6.jpg

 

[pboyles]

The excuse is going to be that the spread was wider at that time due to 'market volatility'. As another poster said unless you trade something that's traded through an exchange you'll always be at the mercy of these type of things.

 

[bevok]

A stop order is an order to sell/buy at the market once a certain price is reached. So for instance in this situation once the BID reaches .84909 the broker would fill your order 'at the market'. That price high on the chart of .84891 (indicative as already mentioned) is the mid price at that moment. What would the bid have been then? Spreads are upwards from around 3 pips for the Aussie and your platform is showing five decimal places (the fourth decimal is the whole pip value), so I would say the bid would have touched that level.

As mentioned stops involve market orders, so theoretically it is quite possible to have positive slippage. There could be a handful of trades at that top however once your stop was triggered market price could have started slipping back before execution. That said, in your case it doesn't look like this happened, its just normal execution with the effect of the spread.

What can be done to avoid this? Well your stop levels need to take the spread into account. Also that level could be said to be a popular level for stops - you'll see in the PA that traders probably put even more stops at that level 'above resistance' which is why price popped up there again in the afternoon. Perhaps avoid those obvious spots. You could trade futures (if you've got more funds) where the market is open and you won't have a broker taking the other side of your trade, and knowing where your stops are. For short term trading though that is of limited value - at the end of the day any short term trader with experience would know that level was a good one to target for order flow, and at the end of the day thats what makes money for bank traders, brokers and successful short term traders. Its all part of the game!