amit1986
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Never tried it. Are you referring to the activity of putting in bids and offers to get rebates from exchanges?
amit1986
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No trade on ATHR at the moment. Was looking to see if I could get some sort of reversal trade, but given the choppiness of the market and the falling Nasdaq e-mini futures, along with very little momentum on level 2, I decided not to take it. A decision well made 
Sometimes the best thing to do is to do nothing.
Sometimes the best thing to do is to do nothing.
nah, just meant like setting limit orders inside the spread, buy bid sell ask sort of thing
amit1986
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Nah, I don't use limit orders - only market orders. Although I suppose, with level 2 type of trading, you could get a much better feel for a stock by doing what you propose. And in the process, you could actually **** off a lot of big market makers this way lol.
I read about a trader in Chicago who continuously posts bids and offers to get a feel of what a stock could do next. He does this to see if the big market makers get annoyed at this bids and offers and then trades with that information.
I read about a trader in Chicago who continuously posts bids and offers to get a feel of what a stock could do next. He does this to see if the big market makers get annoyed at this bids and offers and then trades with that information.
amit1986
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True. But market orders aren't that great either - even half a second too late can get you a bad fill.
was just thinking; what are your reasons for stocks over futures? reasons i can think of are cheaper comissions and a lot more choice, but less liquid/clean than say ES and whats the limit with stocks? i mean, a £100000 account would be fine, what about £1-2 million?
DionysusToast
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Agreed - I stopped trading stocks for a while because of this & moved to the futures - now they are doing the same thing.
I think it's me.
amit1986
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I have nothing against trading futures - I simply don't find it practical to trade them, especially in this type of environment. Out of 2000+ stocks in the U.S., there's realistically only a few hundred that are good enough to trade - low spreads, decent volume and good range. With futures, there's really only a handful of them to trade (the ES and NQ being the top two). So, if it's difficult enough to find stocks to trade out of the few hundred that are available, it's definitely not going to be any easier to find a futures contract to trade out of the very few that are there.
Also, note that futures contracts are used heavily as hedging tools. If a hedge fund manager's got a large position going against gold and he knows that there's a negative correlation (albeit a small one) between gold and the equity markets, then he's definitely not going to buy the basket of stocks that represent the S&P 500 Index to protect against in an increase in gold prices. Instead, he'll most likely use the E-Mini S&P futures to hedge. This happens everyday with many hedge funds, investment banks, etc...This means, that there are going to be less "one-sided" traders - that is, any directional move in the futures will be accompanied by a relatively larger number of traders who will bet against that move as opposed to individual stocks.
While your liquidity argument makes sense, here's one thing to think about: I personally don't like trading very liquid stocks. I definitely won't trade MSFT, ORCL, DELL, etc...as they are influenced heavily by the overall market movement. Instead, I like stocks like CREE, CRUS, DNDN, BIDU, etc...They are liquid enough to get good fills on, but definitely won't be affected by the overall market on days when they behave mostly independent of the markets. Furthermore, level 2 is less noise and more readable on less popular stocks.
You definitely don't need a 2 million pound account to trade stocks the way I do, even $35,000 is more than enough. Interactive Brokers gives you almost 4-to-1 leverage, so your buying/shorting power is quite big. Trading anything more than 1500-2000 share positions on less-liquid stocks would be pointless as you'd get a bad fill. So I am slightly picky about liquidity, but over the short amount of time I have spent trading, I have found what works for me and what I am comfortable with.
Hope it helps,
Amit
amit1986
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Nah, it's not you. I keep up a chart of the ES and NQ at all times and these days, I don't know how it is possible to make any money trading futures, except for in the first 30 minutes of the market.
Stock trading has also been quite difficult these days. One thing I am finding is that you really have to be flexible and adjust your trading-mentality as the market changes. 3 months ago, I could get a nice 30 cent per share move in any one stock, but nowadays, I really do close out any position that goes about 20 cents in profit.
Most of the time, I'm putting on a few scalp trades, getting about 5-10 cents per share on each one. While they all add up, I do feel your frustration...
amit1986
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Ask arabianights for advice about technical analysis - you'll be a millionaire in no time
Wouldn't know. I wouldn't touch penny stocks even if they were the last type of trade available to mankind
Good to see the thread is back up and running Amit. I hope the studies went well.
I had visions of predictable moves giving 20-30 cent moves each and every day but it seems the Futures and the index charts are just flat these days giving me less of a hint as to a stock's direction.
I'm reassured to hear that you are finding it hard too as you are definitely a few (hundred) steps further on than i am! Hopefully when everyone is back from their summer hols, things will pick up again.
Thanks for your e-mail advice. I have just started to trade real money in 100 share trades and the thought of losing real cash has made me very cautious. Paper trading just made me take any old trade as it meant nothing. Some will disagree and i'm not advocating it to anyone. We'll see how it goes.
Keep the journal going! Its a good read and valuable for the little gems of info a beginner like me can glean. (CREE, CRUS, BIDU etc now on favourites list for evaluation)
thanks Again
Coop
I had visions of predictable moves giving 20-30 cent moves each and every day but it seems the Futures and the index charts are just flat these days giving me less of a hint as to a stock's direction.
I'm reassured to hear that you are finding it hard too as you are definitely a few (hundred) steps further on than i am! Hopefully when everyone is back from their summer hols, things will pick up again.
Thanks for your e-mail advice. I have just started to trade real money in 100 share trades and the thought of losing real cash has made me very cautious. Paper trading just made me take any old trade as it meant nothing. Some will disagree and i'm not advocating it to anyone. We'll see how it goes.
Keep the journal going! Its a good read and valuable for the little gems of info a beginner like me can glean. (CREE, CRUS, BIDU etc now on favourites list for evaluation)
thanks Again
Coop
amit1986
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amit1986
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Got quite a few stocks on the watch list today, more than the usual amount these days. Perhaps markets are starting to pick up again...I guess we'll find out soon enough! Anyways, the following could have some nice moves:
PVH, ALTR, ANGO, BP, ARMH, NRGY, UDR, TLB, HPQ, COST, SLAB, and V.
PVH, ALTR, ANGO, BP, ARMH, NRGY, UDR, TLB, HPQ, COST, SLAB, and V.
amit1986
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It seems the markets are coming back to their usual self, presenting good moves. Took many trades today, including one just now on CREE for +40 cents per share.
Children in the U.S. and Canada have their first day back at school today, so participation in the markets was likely to be good today. It's about time as I was getting annoyed at scalping for only 7 cents per share over the last couple of weeks. Hopefully this kind of behavior continues!
Children in the U.S. and Canada have their first day back at school today, so participation in the markets was likely to be good today. It's about time as I was getting annoyed at scalping for only 7 cents per share over the last couple of weeks. Hopefully this kind of behavior continues!
Can you screen shot chart of CREE?
