Automated vs Discretionary

[counter_violent]

It was of it's time. You have the same power in your PC now and Fritz could probably beat it in software alone.

If you were a rated player you would probably know this kind of stuff Joe. I guess you aren't though.

You can get to be an average club tournament level player (i.e. about a rating of 1200) just by following some basic chess tactics and recognising them when they turn up on the board. Providing you understand which part of the game you are in and the relative usefulness of pieces as the game evolves, you can look astounding to non-regular chess players.

Pattern recognition and the associated heuristics can get you a long way.

Fischer & Kasparovs chess rating where up in the 2700's or so. Playing somebody with a rating of 1800 or above if you are average feels like you are engaging with the dark arts. You just cannot see wtf they are doing or why.

Now why do I get the feeling that your a fellow chess player

incidently, do you know of a chess plugin that could be installed on t2w...preferably with time clock.

We could start a league if there's enough interest !

edit, seems there is....
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=232923

 

[robster970]

Now why do I get the feeling that your a fellow chess player

incidently, do you know of a chess plugin that could be installed on t2w...preferably with time clock.

We could start a league if there's enough interest !

edit, seems there is....
[PBPG] Chess - vBulletin.org Forum

LOL - peaked around 1264. Don't play often enough these days. Last game I had last winter, I reckon I was bobbling around 1100 or so. Endgame rubbish. It was never great but it was almost embarrassing...

So below average

 

[counter_violent]

LOL - peaked around 1264. Don't play often enough these days. Last game I had last winter, I reckon I was bobbling around 1100 or so. Endgame rubbish. It was never great but it was almost embarrassing...

So below average

Well, I expect i'd be no better these days...you are so right about endgame...every move counts and zero chance of recovery from a non best move.

I'm gonna start a chess thread then...see what interest can be drummed up...bout time we had some intellectual stimulation round these parts. If enough interest, the powers that be might be persuaded to set it up !

Add names to this thread for now and i'll transfer later.

 

[robster970]

Well, I expect i'd be no better these days...you are so right about endgame...every move counts and zero chance of recovery from a non best move.

I'm gonna start a chess thread then...see what interest can be drummed up...bout time we had some intellectual stimulation round these parts. If enough interest, the powers that be might be persuaded to set it up !

Add names to this thread for now and i'll transfer later.

Cool - I think all we'll need to do is subscribe to somewhere like redhotpawn and then we can play each other (badly)

 

[VielGeld]

Count me in -- I'm rusty as well. I'd like to see where I stand now that I know the stuff that I do.

 

[Mfler]

Started with Discretionary.
Moved to Automated.
And then returned back to Discretionary.
I could never relay on Automated again, after loosing all account over programming mistake.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

I've never really shown much interest in chess. I have enough trouble focussing on what I should be doing as it is lol. Maybe when I'm calmer and getting a few more greys I'll you guys

 

[alphadude]

Started with Discretionary.
Moved to Automated.
And then returned back to Discretionary.
I could never relay on Automated again, after loosing all account over programming mistake.

Mfler; interesting experience you had there.

indeed programming mistakes can be fatal. Risk management is the top priority when automating strategies.

what is your experience in programming?

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Coding is absolute gobbledegook to me so I'm frankly amazed that any of you can code a trading strategy. I have a few ideas that I'd explore if I could do it myself but they're mainly based on basic quantitative analysis. Dunno what the hell you guys are doing.

Incidentally, what happened to Mean Reversion? Has he moved on?

 

[the hare]

Coding is absolute gobbledegook to me so I'm frankly amazed that any of you can code a trading strategy.

Coding isn't hard, there are a few basic building blocks, that don't take long to learn. Its more about solving problems than anything else. You'd have it sorted in no time, feel free to PM me if you ever want to try learning the basics.

 

[alphadude]

agree with the hare; but i must admit that to do the job perfectly and with minimal risk; you need to be a very good programmer with commercial experience. (machines has fat tail risk; all it takes is one incident).

the basic idea behind automated trading; is to automate as much as you can. Usually you need to automate the routine stuff; that bore you to death if you do it manually.

then the degree of automation varies from person to person; depending on your experience; and on the free time you have available. one of the main benefits of automation are:
- backtesting your idea. Knowing the worse drawdown is vital. if you are discretionary; how the hell would you know what's the maximum drawdown?
- helps you jot down the system. If it is clear enough; it can be programmed.
- once you go live; the machine is churning and spitting orders to the market; while you can enjoy a cup of tee; and share some lulz on trade2win.
- piece of mind. I know exactly when the signals will be spat out.
- nowadays i take the pride for having removed 90% of the emotions. my heart only get pumped when I am laughing out load at some t2w lulz.

regarding mean reversion; are you talking about the strategy or a user?
as for strategies; i do trade mainly intraday mean reversion strategy. 100% automated. I also do momentum to balance the portfolio.

 

[Liquid validity]

You could try Ninja's strategy wizard as well:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...cketshop-free-100-account-40.html#post1854460
That is capable of 90% of what you can do with raw C#.
You can also view or unlock the wizard code as you go along.
View allows you to become familiar with C# in practical terms.

Be aware of what you are letting yourself in for though.
Automation can become a bottomless pit of frustration and constant learning if you are not careful.
Keep it simple and focus purely on probability.
Its a massive undertaking, if not impossible to automate a discretionary method,
so I would suggest you don't even try to go down that route.
As the Hare said, its more about problem solving than coding knowledge.

 

[alphadude]

You could try Ninja's strategy wizard as well:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...cketshop-free-100-account-40.html#post1854460
That is capable of 90% of what you can do with raw C#.
You can also view or unlock the wizard code as you go along.
View allows you to become familiar with C# in practical terms.

Be aware of what you are letting yourself in for though.
Automation can become a bottomless pit of frustration and constant learning if you are not careful.
Keep it simple and focus purely on probability.
Its a massive undertaking, if not impossible to automate a discretionary method,
so I would suggest you don't even try to go down that route.
As the Hare said, its more about problem solving than coding knowledge.

Not sure I agree with you there. Automation is about quantification of trading strategies.

Of course there are some discretionary strategies that are impossible to code; due to the subjectivity of the trader.

On the other side; if you are pure quant; you cannot do without good programming skills. Look at the quant funds; all started by programmers and engineers.

 

[Liquid validity]

Not sure I agree with you there. Automation is about quantification of trading strategies.

Of course there are some discretionary strategies that are impossible to code; due to the subjectivity of the trader.

On the other side; if you are pure quant; you cannot do without good programming skills. Look at the quant funds; all started by programmers and engineers.

I know what you mean, and regarding the quant side yes you are right.
I am referring to the more basic probability based side of automation.
Its a bit too much to jump straight in with full on raw programming,
aiming to code a VWAP algo from scratch.
I don't personally think there is any need to either, thats all I'm saying.
Lack of finesse doesn't have to be a barrier to entry.