Are you a successful intraday trader?

[nine]

Daxdestroyers post resonated with a post I made yesterday. I have never liked the war analogy for trading but Temptrader said in the "Psychology... the poll" thead: "I shouldn't say the word "AGAINST" since that would be the wrong way of putting it, but I do believe when we engage it is a war for profits being played out in a battle field that civilians are not prepared for."

That means that there are civilians out there and in this game and we know that a trading dollar is a trading dollar so killing and pillaging a civilian pays the same as killing and pillaging a soldier. This helps.

The second is that if you are relatively small and not doing exactly the same thing as everyone else is doing to kill and pillage then the other soldiers can't see you. They are fighting visible enemies doing known things. But you can operate in a way that they are not defending against. That's another available advantage.

So, in this battle, maybe we should think about how to take advantage of civilians as much as possible and we should act in such a way that the larger or more dangerous players are not aware of us and thus, not fighting us.

 

[Pat494]

Daxdestroyers post resonated with a post I made yesterday. I have never liked the war analogy for trading but Temptrader said in the "Psychology... the poll" thead: "I shouldn't say the word "AGAINST" since that would be the wrong way of putting it, but I do believe when we engage it is a war for profits being played out in a battle field that civilians are not prepared for."

That means that there are civilians out there and in this game and we know that a trading dollar is a trading dollar so killing and pillaging a civilian pays the same as killing and pillaging a soldier. This helps.

The second is that if you are relatively small and not doing exactly the same thing as everyone else is doing to kill and pillage then the other soldiers can't see you. They are fighting visible enemies doing known things. But you can operate in a way that they are not defending against. That's another available advantage.

So, in this battle, maybe we should think about how to take advantage of civilians as much as possible and we should act in such a way that the larger or more dangerous players are not aware of us and thus, not fighting us.

Lets hope noone understands the above too literally or real bullets could start flying ! Could try Bagdad for a warmer-up

 

[Windowsill]

How can any other trader know if its right? They won't know your appetite for loss or even when or where you place a trade.

Some trader here will advocate no stops at all, and trend only with a strong trend.

Its very easy to work this out for yourself though.. Just enter details on a spreadsheet.

Enter position time. Drawdown on next column, most profit possible in next column and so on.
Then you can enter your stop and take profit as variables. For this to work you will need a discreet position, but this is quite simple in most systems.

You will discover what is meant by trending days & ranging days if you focus on profits & losses in this manner.


QUOTE=poster;415731]I my self has lost a lot in Intra day in March after making profit in February. But now I am back to my usual basics and have started towards making my loss in March to break even in April and then turn in to profit. I lost about $ 2600 in March. But now I am back. I was more greedy, after having successful February and taking in to mind that June, I may call it as vacation. Alas! learned my lesson and back to my original strategy and playing conservative rather than aggressive. I am trading DJIA Futures and S & P Futures. Tried my hands in Forex, but lost and so back to DJIA & S & P Futures. I wondered, every time I traded, I put a stop loss of 30 points, which kept hitting in case of DJIA and stop loss of 12 ticks for S & P which also kept hitting. And after hitting, it went in my direction of Trade. Could have easily made money if my stop loss didnt hit. But thats how it gets you. Now I am back to my original 40 points stop loss for DJIA and 16 ticks stop loss for S & P Futures, and trades are turning favorable in April. I would like to know what is the good stop loss for day trading, I mean how many points or ticks. i generally scalp 10 - 20 points in DJIA and 4 - 8 ticks in S & P with stop loss of 40 points in DJIA and 16 ticks in s & P. Am I right??? Since there are many good intra day trader on this forum, please advise.[/QUOTE]

 

[Windowsill]

I'm pretty sure that no mechanical system is going to work, even in the short term if the stop is bigger than the profit margin, at least in my experience.

 

[poster]

Well, So what is the risk profit ratio that one advocates in day trading?

 

[Silversea]

Hi,

after four years of unsuccessful trading I am getting close to the conclusion that it is not possible to make money consistently trading intraday at 1' 3' or 5' on futures such as ES, ER2, YM, etc.

I spent hundreds and hundreds of hours, trading and studying. I have been able to code on TradeNavigator profitable strategies to trade stocks and futures extended but nothing that works and produces profit, with a respectable drawdown, intraday.

I do not believe anyone can do it till someone will prove me the opposite.

I would be really pleased to talk to a successful intraday trader.

Thanks

Massimo

Mass,

I have been day-trading the ES and ZB for years full time. Will show you how if you PM but will not post it here due to odvious reasons. This forums are full of skeptical negative inexperienced, inmature folks that will not give Merit to anyone, even if you spoon feed them with a profitable method, or show them a genuine Bank Trading Account Check.

This is my last Post,
will not waste my precious time
on this Forums.

 

[Windowsill]

Well, So what is the risk profit ratio that one advocates in day trading?

As much as possible. Don't limit yourself.

 

[Windowsill]

Mass,

I have been day-trading the ES and ZB for years full time. Will show you how if you PM but will not post it here due to odvious reasons. This forums are full of skeptical negative inexperienced, inmature folks that will not give Merit to anyone, even if you spoon feed them with a profitable method, or show them a genuine Bank Trading Account Check.

This is my last Post,
will not waste my precious time
on this Forums.

Well i'm not sceptical.

I and most traders here are always interested in alternative profitable systems...if genuine, but they are mostly as a result of a 10 minute study! However, most better "genuine" systems would not always work for other traders because appetite to risk, time frame, etc may differ.. Having said that most peeps would look at alternatives to compare and contrast their own, on the way to improvement.

I do agree about the inexperienced and unknowing being negative and stupid.

 

[mp6140]

MP -- WE ALL KNOW MY FEELINGS TOWARD SL's

I wondered, every time I traded, I put a stop loss of 30 points, which kept hitting in case of DJIA and stop loss of 12 ticks for S & P which also kept hitting. And after hitting, it went in my direction of Trade. ise.

in a volitile market, such as we have been seeing since the beginning of the year, more money is being lost to sl's than ever before.

WHILE THIS IS NOT AIMED AT ROOKIES, I have found it to be a VERY viable method of trading, and while it flies in the face of "conventional" wisdom, inevitably produces gains and not losses.

over and over i hear the same thing --- a good trade that reverses, wipes the stop and then returns to profit, had ONLY the trade been held !

WELL --- if youve got NO sl, then the trade is HELD !!

first of course, one needs to be trading in the direction of the prevailing trend AND ON THE LOWER TIMEFRAMES. having a bit of experience and knowledge of how and even more importantly WHEN the markets reverse is most important also !

one simply takes their trade, KNOWING THERE WILL BE REVERSALS DURING ITS MOVEMENT, and ignores the movements if the longer timeframes show the trend to be in the same direction as your trade ---- given this, it is almost impossible for the trade to go wrong !

there are more exact methods of assuring success, but ive discussed them in other threads and after 8 years of trading forex, with NO stoplosses EVER including trading the H4 overnite while i sleep, I shudder when i see what people lose to a sl that they shouldnt have.

Please note that stoplosses come from the INVESTING side of the world, essentially for equities, and was used to REDUCE losses in a world where a decline in price could be for years, BUT THEY ARE NOT SUITED TO THE INDEX OR FOREX WORLD, which moves fairly rapidly in an up and downwards cycle and have approached an almost predictable status !

While my ideas (and those of MANY others) runs counter to accepted thought, after many years of trading one can see where the accepted thought may just not be very good !

as stated, if one uses the longer timeframes to establish trend, and trades the shorter timeframes WITHIN that trend, you will be way ahead of the game --- I certainly can name a number of newer traders on this site who have tried it and will trade no other way.

ONCE AGAIN --- demo it out and watch --- YOU WILL BE AMAZED BY WHAT YOU SEE !

enjoy and trade well

mp

 

[Windowsill]

in a volitile market, such as we have been seeing since the beginning of the year, more money is being lost to sl's than ever before.

WHILE THIS IS NOT AIMED AT ROOKIES, I have found it to be a VERY viable method of trading, and while it flies in the face of "conventional" wisdom, inevitably produces gains and not losses.

over and over i hear the same thing --- a good trade that reverses, wipes the stop and then returns to profit, had ONLY the trade been held !

WELL --- if youve got NO sl, then the trade is HELD !!

first of course, one needs to be trading in the direction of the prevailing trend AND ON THE LOWER TIMEFRAMES. having a bit of experience and knowledge of how and even more importantly WHEN the markets reverse is most important also !

one simply takes their trade, KNOWING THERE WILL BE REVERSALS DURING ITS MOVEMENT, and ignores the movements if the longer timeframes show the trend to be in the same direction as your trade ---- given this, it is almost impossible for the trade to go wrong !

there are more exact methods of assuring success, but ive discussed them in other threads and after 8 years of trading forex, with NO stoplosses EVER including trading the H4 overnite while i sleep, I shudder when i see what people lose to a sl that they shouldnt have.

Please note that stoplosses come from the INVESTING side of the world, essentially for equities, and was used to REDUCE losses in a world where a decline in price could be for years, BUT THEY ARE NOT SUITED TO THE INDEX OR FOREX WORLD, which moves fairly rapidly in an up and downwards cycle and have approached an almost predictable status !

While my ideas (and those of MANY others) runs counter to accepted thought, after many years of trading one can see where the accepted thought may just not be very good !

as stated, if one uses the longer timeframes to establish trend, and trades the shorter timeframes WITHIN that trend, you will be way ahead of the game --- I certainly can name a number of newer traders on this site who have tried it and will trade no other way.

ONCE AGAIN --- demo it out and watch --- YOU WILL BE AMAZED BY WHAT YOU SEE !

enjoy and trade well

mp

To a certain extent I agree with as, would a lot of investors.

However, intraday traders would probably have more percentage of capital on line.

In essence like most traders one takes any parameter to the extreme. Quite clearly in my studies I have to agree that no stops policy does work well. However, so does tight stops and time limited stops.

When i'm playing with .001 of capital in a trade i would adopt this approach!!

 

[black bear]

Black Bear is Browned off with the Stops debate and all the BS around here

posted earlier on thread

Yes, but I am absolute pants on longer tf

80% sr and 10% per month or just under 1% per day so far so good with one bad day at the office which stung a bit but no damage done and was nothing to do with intra day trade method so .............. 1 day idiot.

I enter with the expectation for a trade, when that expectation is not met pretty dam quick I exit way before my Stop because I would rather take a small loss for my poor entry and re-enter again later on.

If you cannot get your entry right ................WHY IS THAT :?:

With the assumed higher timeframe trend behind me, in a volatile market this could be 80 pts better in

The thing I hate most, and I have been there a few times I can tell you in the past is to sit there looking at a trade intra day going against you ...going bad when I could have been out for - 12 and I am now looking at -35 and wondering if the Big trend is ................


is ..... IS

or have I just picked the absolute bottom or top for the next week or two or decade


That was my last post on this site

good by all, and good trading

 

[mp6140]

windowsill and bear,

window --- first let me say that there are certain conditions that have to be met for this to work, of which working within the trend and not hitting the normal reversal times of day are very important. IF one is using a large portion of their equity, "theoretically" i have to agree with you but on intraday trades, what timeframe are we speaking about ---- is it not usually a lower timeframe, like the 5 minute ?

if indeed it is, the reversal is usually no more than 10 or 15 pips, which an account should be able to handle --- if it cant be handled, the trader has gone WAY past any thoughts of money management and will certainly blow the account in some other manner.

BUT, WHAT I ASK IS THAT YOU EXAMINE THE CONCEPT ---- "theory" to me is just theory, and usually does not stand up to the real world, and what i speak of is from examination of the forex markets for years, and hardly seeing it miss a beat.

There are "conditions" on this type of trade, but they are easily met before one even enters a trade, and what i do is so easily learned ---- i just do not give "them" the money, preferring to keep it for myself !

you old bear --- if that is the way you like to trade, giving back money on the normal intraday reversals, then i cannot help you in any way --- its obvious that i need to learn how to honey coat my ideas for you, so as to turn you away from hibernating your head in the sand and eating the honey that the brokers try to keep from you !

the really best times to see this in action is the present moves on GU --- in a downtrend, but moving up and down in its various timeframe channels --- if one were to play the 5 minute channel, and not want to take a few pips here and there while running like mad, one could simply go short, let the action play out up and down, and tprofit at the H1 bottom support area --- if using stops, you would have been out of there long ago.

enjoy and trade well

mp

 

[new_trader]

Please note that stoplosses come from the INVESTING side of the world, essentially for equities, and was used to REDUCE losses in a world where a decline in price could be for years, BUT THEY ARE NOT SUITED TO THE INDEX OR FOREX WORLD, which moves fairly rapidly in an up and downwards cycle and have approached an almost predictable status !

Strange that you say this. Day trading and scalping weren't invented yesterday.

 

[mp6140]

Strange that you say this. Day trading and scalping weren't invented yesterday.

thats completely true newtrader, they were invented about 15 years ago, although daytrading didnt become very commercially viable until approx 1995 and scalping, as it was practiced by the soes bandits has completely died out when the markets went over to decimals to protect the market makers (they also raised the equity amount needed in your account to 25K to daytrade equities, hoping to cut back on the number of people who were eating the market makers and specialists lunches --- it didnt work, just as raising the equity levels in the commodity markets wont stop the price of gas from going up !

not looking for an arguement, but if you simply INVESTIGATE IT ON YOUR OWN, i think you will be very amazed, and thats ALL i wish you to do !

WHOOPS

MANDATORY DISCLOSURE --- all trading "systems" carry some form of risk --- these ideas, in the hands of the inexperienced, can be rather deadly to ones account !

mp

 

[new_trader]

thats completely true newtrader, they were invented about 15 years ago, although daytrading didnt become very commercially viable until approx 1995 and scalping, as it was practiced by the soes bandits has completely died out when the markets went over to decimals to protect the market makers (they also raised the equity amount needed in your account to 25K to daytrade equities, hoping to cut back on the number of people who were eating the market makers and specialists lunches --- it didnt work, just as raising the equity levels in the commodity markets wont stop the price of gas from going up !

not looking for an arguement, but if you simply INVESTIGATE IT ON YOUR OWN, i think you will be very amazed, and thats ALL i wish you to do !

WHOOPS

MANDATORY DISCLOSURE --- all trading "systems" carry some form of risk --- these ideas, in the hands of the inexperienced, can be rather deadly to ones account !

mp

I am not looking for an argument either, but what you preach is incompatible with the way I trade. What I do makes sense to me and that’s what counts. I trade the way I do because it can be explained with logic, reason and above all, it works. Cut your losses early and let your profits run, what can be simpler? It is the basis of proficient and efficient trading.

 

[nine]

You really should have said:

"It is a basis for proficient and efficient trading."

 

[mp6140]

I am not looking for an argument either, but what you preach is incompatible with the way I trade. What I do makes sense to me and that’s what counts. I trade the way I do because it can be explained with logic, reason and above all, it works. Cut your losses early and let your profits run, what can be simpler? It is the basis of proficient and efficient trading.

===============================================================

fully understand you and most others who have been raised on the diet of "cut losses early and let profits run" and to be honest a few years back i would never expect to be hearing me say what i now say, but after "cutting ones losses early" often enough to notice how much it cost me, especially when the silly price rose (or dropped) right into the tp point, while laughing at me for being such a fool ! i began to question what i was doing and what i found out was how to understand forex (and the indexes, as they work pretty much the same way)

my approach is rather "macro" in its outlook, and derived in part from quant analysis, with more than a touch of Zen ---- i trade EACH timeframe at once, which means Im often going up on one, down on another and probably sideways on one more --- I trade the H4 for the overnite (which is london and asia for me) and take profit on those before the noon tide (edt).

By being aware of the prevailing trend, these trades come home to roost at various times of the day and night and give me and my clients some nice things to write home about !

While it works for me, and i have taught a few newbs how to make profit from what was once ashes, it is understandable how strongly held is cherished thought, even though those thoughts may end up costing a lot of money that needed not to be thrown away into the night !

as i said, while NOT FOR NEWBS without proper training, the reviews ive gotten simply state that EVERYTHING needed to trade competently is in the system ---- perhaps if you take a look, you might even find a part that helps you also !

never has it been so hard to show people how to make profits --- wonder if its really worth it or not ?

enjoy and trade well

mp

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Thread Cleaned

Please stop wandering off and arguing on issues that have nothing to do with the thread topic. Thanks

 

[mp6140]

I look at EVERYTHING and every idea --- all of it or some of it or a tiny scrap of it MAY just help me somewhere along the line and it doesnt matter if its a MACD x-over or two chicken bones spinning on the table --- if it works, and i can fit it into my own way of trading, then i certainly appreciate the original poster.

anyhow, pre release run up on GU, which says to my mind this sucker gonna drop like a rock and indeed it does what its supposed to do !
Told you people the theory till i was orange in the face, and while you think it does nothing for you bear, KNOWING where the upside ends and the downside begins would save you bailing at least two positions -- the mistake you made on the LAST upside trade, and the mistake you made by not getting in at the beginning of the downside move !

You will, sooner or later join the others who tell me how they followed that advice and took advantage of the phenominal runs in both directions ---- I simply wish to help and im beginning to dislike how my advice is being ridiculed, even though every single day my words are proven true and my concepts work on ANY timeframe and ANY part of the trade !

Im being told by the mods that im "talking down" to youse, and while thats not intended, inside of me is a little angry midget minnie me, and it scratches its full head of hair, braided on both sides to reflect its indian heritage and wonders why the white man is consistently dumb --- sorta like when you guys dressed up in those red coats that could be seen for miles in the woods of america --- the same stubborn refusal to face the fact that even brown coats would have made you less of a target seems to exist on the "tight little island" to this day !

if in doubt, take a look at price action today and prior days, what GU did today, and tell me how wrong I am in telling you how price action really works ! I told you if it goes up, its because it will be shorted when it reaches the noon reversal period, and if you look at ANY chart, THERE IT IS !

If you KNOW how far it will go up, and you KNOW the time of day it will reverse, and you KNOW where the short side will start and end, HOW can a trade be made that is wrong ?

enjoy

mp

 

[mp6140]

I am not looking for an argument either, but what you preach is incompatible with the way I trade. What I do makes sense to me and that’s what counts. I trade the way I do because it can be explained with logic, reason and above all, it works. Cut your losses early and let your profits run, what can be simpler? It is the basis of proficient and efficient trading.

=========================================================

newtrader, be honest with me ---- how many times do you "cut your losses early" only to find the trade would have ACTUALLY come in at profit ?

If i take a trade, and it turns out to be what APPEARS to be sour, allready knowing the trend, the time of day and the support and resistance points, I will take (or leave, if its going to be a short term opposing move) the counter trade, make pips on that one, AND I STILL HAVE THE ORIGINAL TRADE which invariably (assuming i follow my own rules) comes home to roost with profit

How can THIS not be "proficient and efficient trading ?"

because a trade goes against me for a little bit, is no reason for me to dump it --- heck, even the time it takes to dump the trade will mean i make less on the counter trade, so in the interest of time and profit, i simply dont do it !

now there are SPECIFIC times of day that a currency will reverse sharply, although usually remaining within the trend ---- this happens immediately before the noon edt reversal, where a long reverses into a very nice short, and so i set my tp on the short side, hold the long and may even "average down" on the long, once i see the short trade is finished and will reverse back up to the upside to make its final run up !

what i do is MAXIMIZE my equity, and while i have drawdowns of 20 - 30 pips on the "smoother" currencies, they are of no bother to me as long as i can see that my trend is still holding.

I had a long arguement with the owner of a prop shop in spain on this subject of "holding" what "appears" to be a loser, with him stating that you MUST dump the "loser" and go with the reversal, THEN you come back onto the long, and my arguement was twofold ---- first, youre ALREADY in the long trade and dont have to figure out where to enter because its already long, and second, I can open a NEW long trade from this new low price (average down) and double my upside profit over just doing ONE trade.

i certainly dont know if im explaining it well, but to me those who dump a reversal are acting more out of fearful protection of equity than knowledge of how the market is working, and i work from "how the market is working and to heck with drawdowns as long as the market is moving as it should !"

my "hedge" trade makes 50 pips a day, 5 pips at a time and if i were to cut it short with a stop, it simply would NOT work, and i would be out 300 - 350 pips a week, which i dont want to be !

the attached chart is very similar (fewer pips involved) to a 5 min chart that one would use for flipping --- please notice the predictable ups and downs and how each trade starts and ends at a resistance and support area (purple lines) --- it is SO SIMPLE to trade that there IS NO REASON TO HAVE A STOP IN PLACE !

any other timeframe reacts essentially the same way, ESPECIALLY if one chooses the pair or pairs one wishes to trade by looking for the SMOOTHEST H1 chart ---- using a smooth charts essentially eliminates whipsaws and having stops hit, and allows "easier" and more "fun" trading (and perhaps more profitable also !)

HOW i trade is based on trading ALL the timeframes at once, is easily explained and simply WORKS, which is the reason I do it to begin with.

it works in trending markets, ranging markets and whipsaw markets because its NOT a system per se, but an illustrated and abbreviated version of how prices are normally trading and what the market is doing at the moment ---- all i do is mimic what the currency is doing in the first place !

maybe if i charged a few thousand euros, people would pay more attention !

enjoy and trade well

mp