scose-no-doubt
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I don't think you really understand what you're talking about or what financial markets are for. I think this is the root of the problem.
barjon
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Blimey, you're hard to please
How far you going to take this? You might be happy to take money from institutional traders, but their money very likely comes from thousands of ordinary people via their investments, pension funds, or whatever. So, you're still going to hurt Joe Soap in some way. Anyway, if you really are that bothered about it then donate half your profits to a Distressed Traders Charity - there's maybe plenty on here who could do with it :cheesy:
jon
Thanks for being understanding!
If the market collapsed after I sold my house, no I would definitely not give the money back. But to me that's alright, I wouldn't care about that, you can't do anything about that. The fact is for me when it comes to selling homes or cars, that person that buys from you must have money in the first place to buy the car or house from you. Now if the market didn't collapse after wards then great for that buyer and if it did depending on their financial status they may or may not have much money left now but that doesn't mean I would give them back their money. I know you and the other person on this forum bring up a good analogy. But I still feel it's different in trading. As the profit I am going for is far less that of a car or house that I would make on a single trade. But that reduced loss or complete loss on the other side for some trader can be pretty significant and there is no way to tell whether his life has just totally messed up.
But tell me this please, say I was trading 10 contracts. Now I have come to sell these 10 contracts for a profit of say 8 ticks, now while I waiting to be filled. Let's say on the other side someone buy them from me. Will all my ten contracts be bought by 1 single person or, is it 1 contract goes to 1 buyer and another contract to another buyer and so on till all 10 contracts have been filled?
scose-no-doubt
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I'm a distressed trader. Send me money.
Hilarymannah
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scose,... Cash or cheque ? : )
scose-no-doubt
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paypal
Jaydee
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The ten contracts may go to one or more buyers.
Hilarymannah
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It's got to go through the pope ?
meanreversion
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I'm starting to wonder if this is a wind up.
Seriously, why do you care who bought your 10 contracts? It's not vaguely relevant. In all my time I've never encountered anyone with a set of views such as yours.
Please don't risk any of your money in the markets, keep it for yourself and your family.
Shakone
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you feel guilty about taking money off retail traders and would prefer an institution? Then just trade with a spreadbet company or a broker that is trading against you. In reality most of the time you probably are trading against an institution anyway.
robster970
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I personally like to have dinner with each counter-party I trade with.
@Sopodo - do you just need some time off and R&R? It's quite surreal this.
This smacks of a similar oddness as my own 'Fading Yourself' thread I started middle of the year which resulted in an equally unanimous response of 'take a rest'.
@Sopodo - do you just need some time off and R&R? It's quite surreal this.
This smacks of a similar oddness as my own 'Fading Yourself' thread I started middle of the year which resulted in an equally unanimous response of 'take a rest'.
meanreversion
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I recently wrote a letter of apology to Interactive Brokers for making money on a gold future. I enclosed a cheque and asked that it be sent to the person who was on the other side. I'm assuming they did this, as the cheque was cashed immediately.
FX Bandit
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Very decent of you Sir. If only everyone took the same attitude!
JT_MOT
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There is a way you can trade directly with an insitution... OTC. But I'm not sure they will see you as a credit worthy counterparty yet. So use all those skills you have and make some millions and they you can take Goldmans to the cleaners till your heart is content! Case closed.
p.s. there is no chance that Goldmans will hedge their positions with you and somone else will lose out... so just relax and count your future profits guilt free.
p.s. there is no chance that Goldmans will hedge their positions with you and somone else will lose out... so just relax and count your future profits guilt free.
Well thanks for at least the positive replies and not so much for the negative take the mick ones.
This thread is not a wind up, I am one of those very analytical guys...I like to lay everything out in the open, you could say to get things off my chest. Then I feel a bit more relaxed around things. I really think I am being silly about all this and always thought I wouldn't let my mind think of these issues. Even with this stuff out in the open now. I would probably say to myself something like 'okay that's enough - time to forget all the what ifs and just keep your mind on the job and focus' and then continue trading. I have thought about that from time to time. But still the idea behind this thread was to look at alternative ways to trade, if it still is really possible. If not then I will probably just continue with more simulation of the emini futures and then go live with real money.
I don't want to hear from you guys how I shouldn't trade, or this business isn't for me. I know deep down if I can get past these issues then I will be fine. Please help me see that. As I am good at trading and I shouldn't let these issues mess me up. I want to hear or read shall I say, replies that will show me the answers to questions I seek.
Another way I look at this, is that people in the UK play the National Lottery and you have the Euro millions jackpot. These are a sort of gambling a bit like bingo. With the lottery at least you put in £1 to get a ticket and £2 for the euro millions, it used to be £1.50. Only a handful of people win, but the chances are very slim. But when you do win your taking all the money that everyone contributed in buying these tickets. At least it's only £1 or £2. While others want to increase their chances of winning by buying more tickets. Some spend £30 or £50 or more on tickets. So in a way when you win you take their losses. Like in trading the stock market you don't see the winners and losers. You only read about the lottery winners online or sometimes see them in the news.
I know with trading you always hear the words 'may the best man win' it really is survival of the fittest. It's war, The art of war. Bulls against bears. And I shouldn't let any emotions get in the way.
I always thought that if I didn't want to feel bad taking peoples losses. Then I should of worked in a trading house. As then you trade with the companies money and you will be up against others taking your winnings against other banks. As right now most of us retail investors only make money off the back of another retail investor. The big banks who are trading 50, 100, 1000 or 20,000+ contracts per trade are looking for other banks to buy and sell from. In a way working for a trading house using their money and getting like a 10% cut is pretty awesome. But it requires real brains, I have that and a lot of people on this forum have that as well. But it's not enough, you need a top education and excellent grades and many years of immense studying to work in these firms.
I know I am being really silly about this, you don't need to remind me. When ether I start to question the morality of trading my immediate answer is - You can't think like that as every trader who has put the time and effort into their trading schedule has a trading plan and within that plan they have accessed the market. They have a contingency plan as in when to get out, how much loss to take, which is loss they are also comfortable to take on each trade. I say that last bit again. Which is loss they are also comfortable to take on each trade...You see 80% of the market rush into to trading with no solid plan and they lose big time. Most of those persons loss will be my profit. So first time round for them they lose. But then these people get smart the next time around, that's if there not bankrupt by then and then they learn how to really trade the market and for this time around they don't rush in. They practice in simulators, they read loads and then go at it again to make profits. But some of these people lose touch with trading first time around, because they lost big time, because they rushed in and that dampers them and stops them from ever wanting to trade again. As these people think they will lose big sums of money once again and so they are scared to return to trading. While the other 20% have studied the market extensively right from the moment they pondered onto trading. They have made trading a ritual so that they can be the best. Of course that 20% all started at some time in the 80% as they learned their ways in the market. But then they got into the 20% that try to consistently win and even then a smaller percentage of this 20% are the real hotshots that make it big. So in the end of the day...I shouldn't have these weird thoughts, as everyone loses money but they also make money. Which is a way creates balance in the market. The 20% who have their solid trading plans know that they can afford to lose x amount of money on their trades, as they know they have to take risks to make money and know that not all trades are going to be winners. So with that in mind it would be the same for me. I shouldn't let people's losses that become my profits dampen the emotions of my trading, as the same will happen to me, my losses will be someone else's profits. And it's not always a complete loss, it may be someone getting out at scratch or at a reduced loss, and then they may be hedging as well to get back to break even or even a much less reduced loss. So I shouldn't let it bother me.
Then finally, anyone here believe in karma? Yin and Yang, fate, destiny and all that?
Some of these people tend to get really annoyed at their computer screens when they lose, they probably say something like 'that blighter just took my money in a big way, I am going to get him back'. Then as something happens in the world there's an opposite and the karma comes back to you and you eventually lose. Then it comes to buying things with your winnings in the real world. Knowing that something you just bought for say your girlfriend comes out of someones losses. I know this all sounds silly.
Really silly! We need the stock market. Banks are businesses and they depend on the stock market. The stock market is a world wide business. I just have to look at a loan or a mortgage. That money that your getting is helping you to buy a house. I shouldn't let any of these issues get in the way of making money in the markets. As I am already touching money that I have deposited into my bank account which is gaining interest, which is coming from trades that are being placed in the stock market by a banks trading floor. I never think about these things but I am happy to spend my money in my bank all these years and spend my money on buying gifts for people. So with this analogy it's the same as me trading and buying gifts for say a girlfriend. If I am not bothered with my bank depositing an interest on my money that's kept in the bank (that also may or may not come from someones losses in the stock market) then It's the same I shouldn't have these issues when it comes to me making trades in the market. It's a bit hypocritical or is it? I always think it shouldn't matter that a bank trades using your money to get you an interest on the money you keep in your account as it's there doing. As long as your (myself) is not trading the market and taking someones losses then that's fine. But you got to think you can't feel that bad about the interest you earn which comes from the banks trading because the interest is such a small percentage these days. I also shouldn't worry about someones losses as it works in the same way, banks make most of their money from investing in the stock market on the interest that they gain from lending money out to people. They are a business in the way that we are trying to run a successful business as a trader trading the stock market. If people constantly summarize the what ifs all the time it will emotionally screw you up. I always think that this is a digital transaction and when you take the money out of the bank and it prints from the ATM then it becomes physical and that's when you let go of all the emotions and enjoy your money for the immense work that you had put in to make that money in the first place.
But still if there are other ways to trade the markets where I will be up against the banks. I would like to hear your opinions.
What I mean buy this is that thousands of retail investors trade along side you. But they buy shares, bonds or whatever other instrument from a institutional firm. Such as a trading house, hedge fund, bank, investment bank etc etc and then they sell back the instrument to these institutional firms and not to another retail investor. So we retail investors trade along side each other but never buy and sell to one another - we only buy and sell to institutional firms...Is there anything like this?
I would also like to hear your detailed opinions on everything I have mentioned.
Let's help one another to see clearly
Any help much appreciated
Many thanks in advance
This thread is not a wind up, I am one of those very analytical guys...I like to lay everything out in the open, you could say to get things off my chest. Then I feel a bit more relaxed around things. I really think I am being silly about all this and always thought I wouldn't let my mind think of these issues. Even with this stuff out in the open now. I would probably say to myself something like 'okay that's enough - time to forget all the what ifs and just keep your mind on the job and focus' and then continue trading. I have thought about that from time to time. But still the idea behind this thread was to look at alternative ways to trade, if it still is really possible. If not then I will probably just continue with more simulation of the emini futures and then go live with real money.
I don't want to hear from you guys how I shouldn't trade, or this business isn't for me. I know deep down if I can get past these issues then I will be fine. Please help me see that. As I am good at trading and I shouldn't let these issues mess me up. I want to hear or read shall I say, replies that will show me the answers to questions I seek.
Another way I look at this, is that people in the UK play the National Lottery and you have the Euro millions jackpot. These are a sort of gambling a bit like bingo. With the lottery at least you put in £1 to get a ticket and £2 for the euro millions, it used to be £1.50. Only a handful of people win, but the chances are very slim. But when you do win your taking all the money that everyone contributed in buying these tickets. At least it's only £1 or £2. While others want to increase their chances of winning by buying more tickets. Some spend £30 or £50 or more on tickets. So in a way when you win you take their losses. Like in trading the stock market you don't see the winners and losers. You only read about the lottery winners online or sometimes see them in the news.
I know with trading you always hear the words 'may the best man win' it really is survival of the fittest. It's war, The art of war. Bulls against bears. And I shouldn't let any emotions get in the way.
I always thought that if I didn't want to feel bad taking peoples losses. Then I should of worked in a trading house. As then you trade with the companies money and you will be up against others taking your winnings against other banks. As right now most of us retail investors only make money off the back of another retail investor. The big banks who are trading 50, 100, 1000 or 20,000+ contracts per trade are looking for other banks to buy and sell from. In a way working for a trading house using their money and getting like a 10% cut is pretty awesome. But it requires real brains, I have that and a lot of people on this forum have that as well. But it's not enough, you need a top education and excellent grades and many years of immense studying to work in these firms.
I know I am being really silly about this, you don't need to remind me. When ether I start to question the morality of trading my immediate answer is - You can't think like that as every trader who has put the time and effort into their trading schedule has a trading plan and within that plan they have accessed the market. They have a contingency plan as in when to get out, how much loss to take, which is loss they are also comfortable to take on each trade. I say that last bit again. Which is loss they are also comfortable to take on each trade...You see 80% of the market rush into to trading with no solid plan and they lose big time. Most of those persons loss will be my profit. So first time round for them they lose. But then these people get smart the next time around, that's if there not bankrupt by then and then they learn how to really trade the market and for this time around they don't rush in. They practice in simulators, they read loads and then go at it again to make profits. But some of these people lose touch with trading first time around, because they lost big time, because they rushed in and that dampers them and stops them from ever wanting to trade again. As these people think they will lose big sums of money once again and so they are scared to return to trading. While the other 20% have studied the market extensively right from the moment they pondered onto trading. They have made trading a ritual so that they can be the best. Of course that 20% all started at some time in the 80% as they learned their ways in the market. But then they got into the 20% that try to consistently win and even then a smaller percentage of this 20% are the real hotshots that make it big. So in the end of the day...I shouldn't have these weird thoughts, as everyone loses money but they also make money. Which is a way creates balance in the market. The 20% who have their solid trading plans know that they can afford to lose x amount of money on their trades, as they know they have to take risks to make money and know that not all trades are going to be winners. So with that in mind it would be the same for me. I shouldn't let people's losses that become my profits dampen the emotions of my trading, as the same will happen to me, my losses will be someone else's profits. And it's not always a complete loss, it may be someone getting out at scratch or at a reduced loss, and then they may be hedging as well to get back to break even or even a much less reduced loss. So I shouldn't let it bother me.
Then finally, anyone here believe in karma? Yin and Yang, fate, destiny and all that?
Some of these people tend to get really annoyed at their computer screens when they lose, they probably say something like 'that blighter just took my money in a big way, I am going to get him back'. Then as something happens in the world there's an opposite and the karma comes back to you and you eventually lose. Then it comes to buying things with your winnings in the real world. Knowing that something you just bought for say your girlfriend comes out of someones losses. I know this all sounds silly.
Really silly! We need the stock market. Banks are businesses and they depend on the stock market. The stock market is a world wide business. I just have to look at a loan or a mortgage. That money that your getting is helping you to buy a house. I shouldn't let any of these issues get in the way of making money in the markets. As I am already touching money that I have deposited into my bank account which is gaining interest, which is coming from trades that are being placed in the stock market by a banks trading floor. I never think about these things but I am happy to spend my money in my bank all these years and spend my money on buying gifts for people. So with this analogy it's the same as me trading and buying gifts for say a girlfriend. If I am not bothered with my bank depositing an interest on my money that's kept in the bank (that also may or may not come from someones losses in the stock market) then It's the same I shouldn't have these issues when it comes to me making trades in the market. It's a bit hypocritical or is it? I always think it shouldn't matter that a bank trades using your money to get you an interest on the money you keep in your account as it's there doing. As long as your (myself) is not trading the market and taking someones losses then that's fine. But you got to think you can't feel that bad about the interest you earn which comes from the banks trading because the interest is such a small percentage these days. I also shouldn't worry about someones losses as it works in the same way, banks make most of their money from investing in the stock market on the interest that they gain from lending money out to people. They are a business in the way that we are trying to run a successful business as a trader trading the stock market. If people constantly summarize the what ifs all the time it will emotionally screw you up. I always think that this is a digital transaction and when you take the money out of the bank and it prints from the ATM then it becomes physical and that's when you let go of all the emotions and enjoy your money for the immense work that you had put in to make that money in the first place.
But still if there are other ways to trade the markets where I will be up against the banks. I would like to hear your opinions.
What I mean buy this is that thousands of retail investors trade along side you. But they buy shares, bonds or whatever other instrument from a institutional firm. Such as a trading house, hedge fund, bank, investment bank etc etc and then they sell back the instrument to these institutional firms and not to another retail investor. So we retail investors trade along side each other but never buy and sell to one another - we only buy and sell to institutional firms...Is there anything like this?
I would also like to hear your detailed opinions on everything I have mentioned.
Let's help one another to see clearly
Any help much appreciated
Many thanks in advance
Last edited:
Jaydee
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Not that I know of. The truth is you never know who you are winning money from and, to be honest, it isn't worth worrying about. You are more likely to be taking money from banks and funds because they have more money involved at any one time. But then you could say you are robbing money off pension funds which makes life harder for the average Joe who is about to retire. Etc, etc...
Trading does not create wealth, it just shifts it around from person to person. If you want to create wealth and not leech of other people, then you should not trade and get a job which adds value in some way.
Last edited:
arabianights
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Ok spopodo... with futures your counterparty is technically the clearing house. So don't worry about it
