Appeal to all members of Trade 2 Win

[besttraderalive]

go to school

go for your series 3 (to whatever)

learn all the different platforms
learn about all the different indicator
learn news trading
learn proper money management

create i live working statement as a trading account where you turn you investment over by 1000% in a year(investment of 10k and under) with 5% or less draw down..

so heres your task at hand follow and maybe the dollar sign be with you......

*on another note self trading on a demo acct. until you can turn an profit with 5% drawdown is your best bet cause you have to be able to handle the pressure of trading live money ... cause these people deal with 10m+ every day

 

[DashRiprock]

wats the name of that pub on the other side of london bridge?

 

[rsh01]

wats the name of that pub on the other side of london bridge?

bb & b

 

[Doomberg]

Yes you are right that there may be people who are 'more suitably employable' out there, with experience thats categorically suited to the role he's looking to fill, but that doesn't mean that the OP should simply give up and continue to work in construction, giving up is what losers do and thats why the majority of people get no where in life. Here's a little story for you.

Years ago there was a man called Edwin C Barnes, he lived in a town called Wisconsin not far from Chicago, he was in his mid 20's and he decided that he was going to be a business associate with one of the greatest inventors even to live, Thomas A Edison. Barnes had never met Edison, he had only read about him in the papers, he had no money, no background in any relevant industry and he was over 1000 miles away, regardless of all this he had a burning desire to achieve his goals, he didn't want to work for Edison, he wanted a partnership and he was 100% certain that he would get it.

Barnes saved up for train tickets to go and see Edison at his laboratory in a town called Orange, in New Jersey... he turned up before Edison pretty much dressed in rags, he explained that he will be the most valuable man he will meet and is here to tell him that he would love to go in to partnership with him but understands he has to prove himself, Barnes went on to say he will make Edison obscene amounts of money, Edison laughed because Barnes had no experience what so ever in any relevant field, all he had was the idea of what he wanted. Barnes explained that if he was given the chance then he would prove that everything he said would be followed up and within a few years he will be given the partnership that he speaks of.

Edison was impressed that Barnes was prepared to give his entire life to achieving his goals of getting that partnership, he told Barnes he will be given a chance and gave him an entry job working in the office, there was no promise of any partnership, Edison simply said "ok lets see what you can do!" Time went by and Barnes was proving himself to be an extremely valuable part of Edisons company, Edison was that impressed that he eventually gave Barnes the partnership, and Barnes became very wealthy... they remained close business associates until Edisons death. So there we have it, a pauper in rags from a poor family who decided he was going in to business with the great Thomas Edison, he had no other qualities on paper other than positivity and will power. Im a firm believer that anyone can achieve anything if they have a burning desire and put their mind to it, and if the OP is prepared to do anything in his power to get that FO job, then rather than tell him 'no don't bother you are wasting your time' you should pat him on the back and tell him to.. 'go get it'

 

[rsh01]

giving up is what losers do and thats why the majority of people get no where in life

totally agree, just suggested changing his strategy - study smthg vocational (millions of others have - but this will prob only get you as far as trade support in fin. institution if your lucky but it's a foot in the door / accountancy qual will get you product control job); offer to work for free (millions of others do); learn to trade successfully on your own for a decent period of time (loads have done this see trader_dante et al - so why can't the OP?) - so if he is behind all of these
unfort 'drive' + his unrelated work + academic exp doesnt stand much of a chance (and spending hundreds of hours trying to get that lucky break is prob better spent reading trading books / threads and going alone), imo.

wld personally ditch the cv method completely - regardless who it is sent to, waste of time imo. though perhaps this can be confirmed with a recruitment firm (when i was going for FO jobs whilst working in MO the economy was in slightly healthier state, so things wld expect have got even tougher) - go for a meeting with a few and see what they say, then devise a strategy not based around looking for someone to do you a favour.

 

[comullan]

This is not my only strategy rsh01, but I thank you for your input as you made some very valid points.

I am not so naive as to believe that there are not people out there with much more better and suited qualifications as well as experience than myself. Does this mean I should not try? No, of course not.

In terms of being unprofessional, I think this is an unfair comment to make as I have only posted my C.V. here asking if anyone knows of any trainee positions becoming available.This is only a very small part of my strategy as I thought "no harm in asking you never know" but this has been misconstrued as my prime attack on the job market. Not what it really is, a punt on the side. In any correspondence I make to companies I always make it clear that I am willing to work for free for a 2 month period to allow the employer to gauge my suitability for the position. When I mentioned a reasonable salary that was referring to my goal upon acceptance to the position after free period and probationary period.

In terms of trading on own account I do not have the cash at the minute thus I am trying to get a job in the lag time is is taking me to save as well as trying to identify a consistently profitable trading strategy through backtesting and papertrading my hypothesis. Better than sitting carrying out study alone I thought.
This is also the same reason that rules out the possibility of a grad scheme at a prop house, until I have enough cash put by to afford to live without earning for what I believe could be up to a 6 month period. This 6 month period I believe accounts for the slow burn of actually learning to trade not only successfully but generating enough profit that after the house cut, you cover living expenses.

My excessive use of the phrase "I can" was in response to a post by DT

Why not try for Front Office straight away? I am trying to get exposure to as many opportunities as possible so to immediately limit said opportunities myself by only applying for Middle/Back office roles is in my opinion defeatist.

I am no way blind to the fact that there are many others out there in positions within Financial Organisations, with exposure to Front Office, better qualifications, more relative experience and more connections than I may have. Just because I am trying regardless of this to improve my situation means I am ignorant and naive??? Come on rsh01 really?

You have provided some extremely valuable advice which I have taken into full account and the paths you have suggested I am working to be able to afford them and have the knowledge to maximise upon them.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

 

[DionysusToast]

" I always make it clear that I am willing to work for free for a 2 month period to allow the employer to gauge my suitability for the position"

This is one of a number of things that will actually prevent you from getting a job.

Applicant 1
- I need you, I want to learn, I'll try my best, I'll even work for free
Applicant 2
- I have these skills, you need these skills, you can't afford to not have me, this is how much I am willing to work for.

As an employer, I will consider applicant 2 to be a bit cocky, maybe arrogant. I'd certainly overlook this if he really does know the skills needed and has put a good (but short) case forward. I'd be telling my secretary to bring him in.

I would bin applicant 1. It's the 'needy' thing again. By offering to work for free you have basically pointed out there's no current value. The real problem though, is this type of application would be the norm. I read hundreds of these for any job but very few that stand out.

You need to be creative and you need to be aggressive.

 

[comullan]

go to school

go for your series 3 (to whatever)

learn all the different platforms
learn about all the different indicator
learn news trading
learn proper money management

create i live working statement as a trading account where you turn you investment over by 1000% in a year(investment of 10k and under) with 5% or less draw down..

so heres your task at hand follow and maybe the dollar sign be with you......

*on another note self trading on a demo acct. until you can turn an profit with 5% drawdown is your best bet cause you have to be able to handle the pressure of trading live money ... cause these people deal with 10m+ every day

Thank you for your advice.

I have my level 3 CISI in securities investment and am currently studying for derivatives and retail- UK equiv to US Series 3

As for the rest I am working on my strategy as well as trying to apply for jobs trying to open as many avenues as possible.

 

[comullan]

" I always make it clear that I am willing to work for free for a 2 month period to allow the employer to gauge my suitability for the position"

This is one of a number of things that will actually prevent you from getting a job.

Applicant 1
- I need you, I want to learn, I'll try my best, I'll even work for free
Applicant 2
- I have these skills, you need these skills, you can't afford to not have me, this is how much I am willing to work for.

As an employer, I will consider applicant 2 to be a bit cocky, maybe arrogant. I'd certainly overlook this if he really does know the skills needed and has put a good (but short) case forward. I'd be telling my secretary to bring him in.

I would bin applicant 1. It's the 'needy' thing again. By offering to work for free you have basically pointed out there's no current value. The real problem though, is this type of application would be the norm. I read hundreds of these for any job but very few that stand out.

You need to be creative and you need to be aggressive.

I genuinely thought this would make my application more attractive.
Definitely have to rethink the approach I use based on what you have said, as I can see how applying for a job is the same as sales. The items in the bargain bucket eventually find their way to the bin.

 

[DionysusToast]

To give you an idea - I will tell you how I did this at 18 in a different industry.

I left college at 18 with no degree. When I saw a grad job I wanted, I'd research the company and send an unsolicited email to the guy in charge there, explaining what I could do and how this would compare with a fresh grad (some of this had to do with me having my own commercial apps running).

I told them that if they had positions open, they should consider me. Of course, I never mentioned that I knew they were advertising and I never contacted the people who's name was in the advert.

The upshot was I got a call from the guy in charge at one place. He tole me he was very impressed with the way I approached the company and that yes, by coincidence they were hiring, so why not come along for an aptitude test.

At that point, the other applicants were TOAST.

Call me cocky, call me sneaky, call me arrogant. It still caught their attention and made me a 'special' applicant.

 

[DashRiprock]

mate you gotta think out of the box

find the head honcho and write him a letter saying

"look, I'm shaggin your wife and she's gettin a bit clingy. Gizza job and I'll convince her not to divorce you."

 

[DionysusToast]

I genuinely thought this would make my application more attractive.
Definitely have to rethink the approach I use based on what you have said, as I can see how applying for a job is the same as sales. The items in the bargain bucket eventually find their way to the bin.

It is rather counter-intuitive from the applicants perspective. Pur yourself in the perspective of someone who needs a guy to do a good job. Someone who will be getting hundreds of letters.

I have a friend who couldn't get a reply from a CEO until he sent flowers with his resume attached. He got the job.

Most senior guys have a 'gatekeeper' - his PA who's job, amonst others, it is to keep people from bothering them. The flowers got sent as a way to get past the gatekeeper (what PA is going to hold back flowers OR read the attached letter). Just getting past the PA can be a pain. Your letters might be getting binned by such a person.

I'm glad I don't have to go through all that again...

There's a good book called "What color is your parachute?" - it's a bit cheesy in parts but it discusses ways to approach getting a job that don't involve just sending out emails or using job web sites. It is well worth a read.

 

[DashRiprock]

hell if it worked for bud fox it could work for you too

 

[DashRiprock]

mate you gotta think out of the box

find the head honcho and write him a letter saying

"look, I'm shaggin your wife and she's gettin a bit clingy. Gizza job and I'll convince her not to divorce you."

or, find a big boss man with a daughter older than 25 and make her pregnant.

Job in the BAG!

 

[DashRiprock]

(note: you prolly shouldnt mix my 2 ways up, do one or the other but dont do both, that will probably make life pretty bad for you)

 

[D70]

If I were to get your CV on my desk, you wouldnt make it to the next round because:

- You say you have experience - I say, you're 26, you have no experience.
- Management? What could you have managed at your age.
- Trainee position within financial industry - here's my post room, down the stairs and left, see you in the canteen (maybe)
- A degree, great, but where from and what grade?
- 3 a levels but you only mention 2 of them?
- Use of "Dec." but also use of "June" - you have no consistency
- 4 as levels, what were they?
- Maths......? dont you mean mathematics?
- A gap below some headings but not all - did this cv take 3 minutes?
- october to january 2010 is fairly good but i wouldnt have read that far normally

And compared to the other 200 cv's i've received, you have no experience (internship or otherwise), no masters, no phd.

Post room is about all i can offer you at this stage...... thanks for you interest in our firm........

 

[Doomberg]

If I were to get your CV on my desk, you wouldnt make it to the next round because:

- You say you have experience - I say, you're 26, you have no experience.
- Management? What could you have managed at your age.
- Trainee position within financial industry - here's my post room, down the stairs and left, see you in the canteen (maybe)
- A degree, great, but where from and what grade?
- 3 a levels but you only mention 2 of them?
- Use of "Dec." but also use of "June" - you have no consistency
- 4 as levels, what were they?
- Maths......? dont you mean mathematics?
- A gap below some headings but not all - did this cv take 3 minutes?
- october to january 2010 is fairly good but i wouldnt have read that far normally

And compared to the other 200 cv's i've received, you have no experience (internship or otherwise), no masters, no phd.

Post room is about all i can offer you at this stage...... thanks for you interest in our firm........

I disagree with your views on this, sure when it comes to sheer experience then older 'can' be better but saying "What could you of managed at your age?" he could of managed more than a capable 40 year old for all you know, what a funny statement. The right applicant with the right drive should be given 2nd thought, in my time i have seen people from all walks of life do well. I was given a chance aged 21, i started at the bottom and within a few months i had 2 dozen people under me of all ages, and despite being one of the youngest there, things were going great and i got the job done. Even in my own business ventures i have seen young people do well, in fact the top 3 people who i have employed that made us money were all under 25, they were not very academically intelligent but they were there for one reason.. to make some cash for the firm which ultimately means for themselves, academics mean nothing in my opinion... you can pay for schooling but you can't buy passion

 

[rsh01]

In terms of being unprofessional, I think this is an unfair comment

i didnt say you were unprofessional, i countered doomberg saying you were professional. it was neither, imo it was a just a bit poor. ok your doing other stuff as well - great.

Why not try for Front Office straight away?

because you won't get into FO - check out job spec for FO grad jobs or even FO support staff (i thought this wld be the first thing you wld have done). unless you do what dash suggests.

ignorant and naive???

i suggested you were being a little naive rather than ignorant in your approach, ignorant wld indicate you have chosen to ignore that this is a bit of a crap approach (you called it a punt, not me) and gone ahead anyway, which i cannot conclude as i don't know you.

hang out in a traders local and become the resident coke dealer. or wait for doom's job offer.

some prop houses do offer free courses, with no dodgy scam (the one i am at does). you just have to have an excellent cv (academic) to be chosen out of the hundreds of applicants they get each mth.

gl anyway.

 

[DionysusToast]

"hang out in a traders local and become the resident coke dealer"

Best advice on this forum, ever...

 

[comullan]

Going to try knocking doors down the city tomorrow have a list of names and addresses so will get a number of face to face introductions by the end of the day.