Anyone Winning ??

[DaddyDude]

Hi

hi,

after suffering a major loss 6 months ago I have been demo trading and recently re-entered with a small pot and 50pence pp. I lasted 4 weeks and was once again wiped out. I seem to be losing slower though.

I was doing well, winning some and losing some, however, I seemed to have too wide stops and not let winners run, therefore my my risk / reward was all wrong. even at 50ppp I was risking too much % per trade. eventually it was too much.

I will take another break and try agian soon but my question is - how many are actually making profits trading ?????

I know what you mean, I have traded for 4 weeks now and have not done very well, though I must admit i made some silly mistakes initially which made up 90% of my losses. I have traded all week this week after taking a week off to re-think my strategy. I started the week with £600, I now have £596. So much better than what I was doing before. The proble I have found is that the market is jsut too volatile right now, too many swings, so you are easily stopped out and it is hard to get the risk equation right with such large swings. I have set up a watch list of stocks that are tending to trade in much tighter bands than others. I have also started to set my buy price (if I am going long) at a good measure above the current spread, so if it gets hit then it is clear the stock is moving in that direction and I am putting limits on to get out as soon as i make a profit. i am not been greedy on this as my view is "protect your capital" as you can't trade without it and aim for small profits (take what you can) even £5. To build up confidence. If you are an overnight trader like me because you have a full-time job, then you have to play it very safe and be patient in these turbulent times.

 

[gamma]

I think whether we like to admit it or not are pretty addicted to trading.
Come on! look at us, Saturday afternoon ad here we are discussing trading.
my good fellow poster Lee verifies the point that if possible he would trade all weekend if he could.
I am happy for you that the markets close for the weekend lee.

One of the reasons I set targets is, its my way of coping with mental fatigue !
I don't even look at my monitors as much as I used to, thanks to the alarms on I.G index chart's.
How do do others cope with this issue? specially you Lee, as I don't know anyone who trades as much as you.
Like an earlier post said, often the profits made in the morning, are often given back in the afternoon.
The point about about stop losses ! yes once my profit margin is reached, I will set my take profit at my target on profits have been locked in and if it continues good for me.

Yes the point of why stop when you are winning is a good one
The question really is. Are you just not on a on a winning trade because it has met your criteria?
and this where it the S/L T/P are useful , if it continues in your favor set you T/P S/L and go get a beer!

 

[luckyd1976]

I'll be honest here, I love talking shop, I love trading and would do it at the weekend if the markets were open. I also dont have many other interests other than holidays away and drinking and eating and socializing, even when on holiday I have my PDA in hand.

I enjoy talking on trade2win and am shortly going round a mates house to also talk about trading, whoopeee, some might say, get a life, whateva. They could be right, but this is my life, it pays for my life and in return I give it as much time as I can devote whilst enjoying every moment of it while it lasts.

I'm with Lee on this one.

I think whether we like to admit it or not are pretty addicted to trading.
Come on! look at us, Saturday afternoon ad here we are discussing trading.
my good fellow poster Lee verifies the point that if possible he would trade all weekend if he could.
I am happy for you that the markets close for the weekend lee.

Im happy for the weekend so I can get caught up on the paperwork side of things and time to drink a few beers with friends and family...

 

[Mikeyfx]

You asked a question "why stop when winning?"

So I gave you the answer for that.

Now you seem to be going off a tangent.

"why are we chatting on the net like strangers " - er I know you only via the net, do you visit my local pub? if yes, then please wear a red hat next time and I'll recognise you and even buy you a drink or two

"about trading that earns us no money whatsoever, " Sorry to hear that... I thought you were one on the winners list?!

You had difficulty understanding why some people "stop when winning" and I explained the view point. The fact that you don't share that view is your personal opinion. No issues with that.

chilltrader i think you have missed lee's point entirely he was not saying you should not stop trading just because your winning, it makes sense to have time frame for trading whatver that may be so no matter if your winning or losing that is time of day you stop. (we can not trade all day even if we would like to lol)
But the point he was making is why stop at say +200 when its only half way through your nomal trading day? that makes no sense. where on the other hand to stop because youve reached -200 for example could make total sense if thats how you trade.

 

[alan5616]

hi,

after suffering a major loss 6 months ago I have been demo trading and recently re-entered with a small pot and 50pence pp. I lasted 4 weeks and was once again wiped out. I seem to be losing slower though.

I was doing well, winning some and losing some, however, I seemed to have too wide stops and not let winners run, therefore my my risk / reward was all wrong. even at 50ppp I was risking too much % per trade. eventually it was too much.

I will take another break and try agian soon but my question is - how many are actually making profits trading ?????

Hi advfn trader,

I would suggest that, if you do get back trading for real again, you risk no more than 5% of your trading capital on any one trade.

I can empathise with your experience. It's no fun being a successful trader on a demo account, only to find that trading for real fails to produce similar results. I've been there and know how annoying this is. It's very easy to let profits run in demo mode but, when making the transition to trading with your own money, the psychology changes. We want to get out of the trade as soon as we see any hint of a reversal, even a small pull back. Seeing our profit on a trade start to diminish produces a fear that we are going to give it all back. It's almost instinctive to click on the "close trade" button.

The best advice I can give you is to get familiar with one market only to start with. It doesn't matter which one, although I am not a fan of trading individual equities (just personal preference). There are plenty to choose from. You might consider the DAX, mini S & P, Dow and Russell or, one of the currency pairs. Watch that market for a month and note how it moves. After that month develop a strategy for trading that market in demo mode for 3 months and analyse the results. If the strategy that you employed is profitable, then you know that you have a basis on which you can think about trading with a real account again. However, you must carry that same profitable strategy into trading for real and trust it completely.

On the subject of risk reward, I would suggest a win/loss ratio of between 3:1 and 5:1. The question of where your stop is placed should be related to the risk to 5% of your trading capital.

I have been trading for 8 years but, would not consider myself successful. All too often, I would exit a trade with 30-50 pts. profit only to see the market move in my direction another 200+ points. A chance meeting with a very successful forex trader changed my mind set. He has the proverbial "balls of steel" when in a winning trade but, manages his risk very tightly. This is the primary reason why he is so successful. He has 100% faith in his strategy and is one of the few traders I have ever met that doesn't care about losses. The trades that he lets run their course more than compensate for the losing trades.

There are plenty of traders making money in the current economic climate. Thankfully, I am one of them but, I owe the aforementioned forex trader the utmost gratitude. It took him a while to get it into my stubborn brain that this is how you make meaningful money.

 

[fantastic4]

Thanks for all the great post and advice. I appreciate it. I set the daily target to prevent over trading or giving back profits, and to free up time for other areas of trading. Mainly to prevent over trading. That doesn't mean I can't go over 200. I mean if I'm already in the trade and it's running I"m not going to cut it off, just tighten my stop. This is one area I'll look into tweaking.

The ambush trades I've been live paper trading for about 2 months now. It's a great trade but I found I end up taking hits that I don't like taking, so the internals give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down. The internals I use my change also. I'm just starting this plan out this Monday and will keep a blog as a journal. I'll record everything that happens over the next month or so, and improve my plan. I'm only a newbie trader and still paper trading, so this is a test for me.

The market internals I chose, I chose because these are the ones I've used for the last 6 months or so. For stocks and futures. The VXo is probably one of the most important now.

Yeah, that 1 to 1 ratio seems to exist with 200 loss cut off and 200 win target. However, it would take three losing trades in a row to hit the 200 loss. That would be a very bad day, and shouldn't be more than a 1 in 10 days day, otherwise, I'll have to change my strategy. The 200 loss cut off is to prevent revenge trading. That's what caused me to burn out my first real account.

The 92% fail rate I got from Hubert Senter's. His words not neccesarily gold, but close to it.

If you want to comment on my blog, please do. I just made it yesterday and it would be fun to get a comment:
Help me day trade the ES because I have no idea what I'm doing

 

[brentgag]

Sorry to hear about your loosing streak. It happens to all of us. The question is do you get back on the horse and ride or go back to paper trading.... Paper trading will teach you only so much. It's not your money so you don't feel the beads of sweat when the trade goes against you. I paper trade when I want to try out a new indicator or a new EA.The rest of the time I just jump right in. Let's face it.... you stqand a 50/50 chance of winning. Not bad odds. But it can get better....

Start with a "Top down look at the charts". Start at the Day and work all the way to the 1 Min. this will give you an idea of where the market is going. Next.... Ply in the direction of the Trend. Oh I know it is tempting when you see that big move in the opposite direction, but don't fall for it. Get up and have a cup of coffee instead. When you see a play setting up that will be following your trend... play it. Don't jump out the first time you see a profit or when you see it turn a little on you. If you did your "Top Down" properly, you know where it's going, so hang in there. I've been down 200 pips only to see it turn around and head my way (of course I did grab one up at that price too...<grin>. Remember "The Trend is your Friend". 99% of the time that holds true. If you need help, feel free to ask. Most of us just sit in front of a computer all day and night, we'd welcome the chat. Heck... you might even wake us up....hahahaha

Your Pal,
Brent

 

[jeffsmith]

It's been around 2 years now on real account and i have only started to break even, after some major losses. yes you need to keep going on at it.

 

[sjrider2397]

I am profitable and making a living daytrading the es. I will admit that I do not completley understand fantasticfour 's trading plan, but I am very happy to see one.
advnftrader, if you do not have a trading plan, find one, copy one, steal one, I do not care how but you need to get one, and then you need to follow it . Then test on a demo account until you understand it and completly trust it. so that when you go live you do not need to question your strategy or doubt your entries you will know them and you will execute them
with regards to stop trading after a target is hit, I will also stop trading after a couple of hours, even if my daily goal is not hit, if I can not make my goal or more after 2 1/2 hours of trading odds are I will not make in the afternoon either. I usually hit my goal the first hour and exceed it the next hour and turn off my compputor and enjoy living my life. I do not live to trade. I have many other things that I would rather be doing during the day.

 

[TradeBlade]

How long are you holding on to a stock for?

When do you normally buy a stock. At open price?
End of day? Once you watch it for a while?

What percentage is enough profit in your view.

Same question with any Loss.

You don't have to tell everybody all your business but without knowing a little
I don't see how anyone can analyze what is going wrong.

I hear that some people are making a killing during this crazy time.
They keep playing the same stocks over and over and over.


TradeBlade

hi,

after suffering a major loss 6 months ago I have been demo trading and recently re-entered with a small pot and 50pence pp. I lasted 4 weeks and was once again wiped out. I seem to be losing slower though.

I was doing well, winning some and losing some, however, I seemed to have too wide stops and not let winners run, therefore my my risk / reward was all wrong. even at 50ppp I was risking too much % per trade. eventually it was too much.

I will take another break and try agian soon but my question is - how many are actually making profits trading ?????

 

[new_trader]

My 2 cents

What Lee says has been so true for me. On good days, the market is obviously suiting your trading style and you certainly don't want to give up just because you hit a target! Yesterday was one particularly good day for me. After a few hours i wondered if i should stop or not because i was doing so well and just walk away, but- well, i'm glad i continued trading because i went on to double my profits.

Now, if i were to go gambling, playing blackjack or roulette or whatever, i most certainly WOULD walk away, and very quick, at the soonest point i was in profit. But that's a whole different ball game.

A good point, but this is where the distinction is made between those (like me) who consider profitable trading to be a SKILL and those (the majority) who think trading is about have the right 'SYSTEM'. People (like me) who consider profitable trading to be a SKILL don't have good days and bad days depending on the market. We either judge each trade correctly or misjudge it. I think it's very dangerous for any trader to keep trading if they can't pinpoint exactly why they are having a good day or a bad day. It’s a bit like answering “It hasn’t killed me yet” when someone asks if what you are doing is safe.

 

[TomTom]

What others are saying is knowing when to quit.
Have a scheaduall when your working mine is 2-3 days each week for 3-5hrs.
All ways trade USA Markets with a limmit on what i losse not what i gain.
Best to let the wining ones continue and cut the loosing ones after a cirtain time frame.
For me if not in profit in 15 mins close out ...........and start again.

 

[trader_dante]

A good point, but this is where the distinction is made between those (like me) who consider profitable trading to be a SKILL and those (the majority) who think trading is about have the right 'SYSTEM'. People (like me) who consider profitable trading to be a SKILL don't have good days and bad days depending on the market. We either judge each trade correctly or misjudge it. I think it's very dangerous for any trader to keep trading if they can't pinpoint exactly why they are having a good day or a bad day. It’s a bit like answering “It hasn’t killed me yet” when someone asks if what you are doing is safe.

Agree with new_trader for once. Trading is most definetly a SKILL and anyone that thinks otherwise is severely mistaken. If it wasn't a SKILL there would be a lot more winners because there are a lot of profitable strategies out there that are freely available. I think that SKILL comes from experience and screen time and practice but also from control of exploitation or certain psychological elements that either help or hinder your progress such as patience, discipline, greed, fear, rashness, agressiveness - the usual suspects yawwwwn

 

[barryb]

In my view it's quite simple whether i keep trading or i don't. If i feel mentally alert and confident i trade, but if for some reason i don't feel on the top of my game, i won't trade until i've resolved the problem. Monitoring yourself and your feelings is just as important as monitoring the market's moves.

 

[7 Tree]

Make sure you have a plan to follow and you learn as mush as possible....

I love the post "fantastic4" I think a lot of traders dont know when to stop. I have a point point target it does not sound a lot but thats what i do day in day out! Your plan looks like good and i think people dont have a proper plan or fail to follow it.

For me i trade the Ftse 100 futures Index shares and the DAX. I dont trade the YM you need a big account and you have to spend a lot of time understanding what rules work best. But you are right have your win set out and your loss then stop for the day.

I was watching this video about trading plans and in this market. What new trader miss out on is learning from the correct people. I did a course and found out what i had learnt would not cut the mustard so I went off and read lots and lots of books got some proper trading software tools after testing about 5 different packages and learnt all over again.

 

[alan5616]

For me i trade the Ftse 100 futures Index shares and the DAX. I dont trade the YM you need a big account and you have to spend a lot of time understanding what rules work best.

You don't need a big account to trade the Dow. There are markets for the mini Dow ($10 per pt), mini S&P ($12.50 per .25 of a pt), mini Nasdaq ($10-I think). The best of all of them, imho, is the mini Russell ($5 per pt). If you like fast profits, the Russell should be on your short list of markets to trade.

 

[Justin R - London]

Hi mate,

Dont take this the wrong way, I'm not attacking you here but if we have better things to do other than trading, that makes us money and could be considered our job, then, why are we chatting on the net like strangers about trading that earns us no money whatsoever, why aren't we down the pub chatting or talking to our mates or loved ones or watching telly or anything.

Unless.....chatting on trade2win makes you happier than trading or anything else you could be doing at the moment.

I'll be honest here, I love talking shop, I love trading and would do it at the weekend if the markets were open. I also dont have many other interests other than holidays away and drinking and eating and socializing, even when on holiday I have my PDA in hand.

I enjoy talking on trade2win and am shortly going round a mates house to also talk about trading, whoopeee, some might say, get a life, whateva. They could be right, but this is my life, it pays for my life and in return I give it as much time as I can devote whilst enjoying every moment of it while it lasts.

I'm only as good as my last trade.

Hey Mate,

I'm just starting out but see myself goingt he same way as you in a sense that Im fascinated by the markets, love talking about it, and would loving nothing more than to quit my job (as an IDB) and day trade. I'd get as much out of the flexibility of the work style as I would from the money to be made.

Any tips in getting started with trading strategies? How did you develop your strategy? reading? mentor? observation?

I work as broker of derivatives on DAX so I guess if I do indicies, that'd be the smart place to start?