Anyone Winning ??

[advfntrader]

hi,

after suffering a major loss 6 months ago I have been demo trading and recently re-entered with a small pot and 50pence pp. I lasted 4 weeks and was once again wiped out. I seem to be losing slower though.

I was doing well, winning some and losing some, however, I seemed to have too wide stops and not let winners run, therefore my my risk / reward was all wrong. even at 50ppp I was risking too much % per trade. eventually it was too much.

I will take another break and try agian soon but my question is - how many are actually making profits trading ?????

 

[Lee Shepherd]

hi,

after suffering a major loss 6 months ago I have been demo trading and recently re-entered with a small pot and 50pence pp. I lasted 4 weeks and was once again wiped out. I seem to be losing slower though.

I was doing well, winning some and losing some, however, I seemed to have too wide stops and not let winners run, therefore my my risk / reward was all wrong. even at 50ppp I was risking too much % per trade. eventually it was too much.

I will take another break and try agian soon but my question is - how many are actually making profits trading ?????

I am.


Whats happened to your system and paper trading, if the results were favourable then what has changed. The risk per trade should be worked out long before you enter a trade as you need this to paper trade off.

My educated guess is that not enough work and effort has been put into practising before re-entering the market live.

Sorry bud, I could be wrong, but some how based on what you've said and done and ultimately the end result I fear this to be the case.

 

[advfntrader]

I agree Lee. maybe not enough demo trading. I realise now that even using 50p pp the risk was too large for my account size. I will go back to demoing for a while

 

[Mikeyfx]

Me

 

[SirFrancis]

Me

Glad to see that you're winning Mikey - why not tell us a bit about your winning strategy?

 

[Stern-Capital]

Hi There,
I think that Lee said it well, get back on the Demo trading, don't lose more capital if you aren't 110% convinced that you are Good to go again!

As for your question, the majority of the forex market is Losers... but 10% or less are Winner traders.
Like us for example

I wish you best of luck in your further experience with the forex market, a lot of money to be made here.

 

[fantastic4]

92% of online day trading accounts fail, and are whiped out. That's fact. The winners are the few commited traders who study hard and work hard and are very disciplined. You're on the right track advfntrader. You've found what you did wrong and what you need to improve on. I'm on of the 92%, with 1 year trading under my belt, and I'm getting ready to come live again. I've already writting out a detailed trading plan. I'm going to test my plan for the next month, and tweak it or here or there. If my plan is consistently profitable, then I'll go live with it, and now I trust I have the discipline to follow it. You may want to do the same. I'll be trading the ES future, here's an example of my trading plan. If any want to comment, please do. I would appreciate the advice.

Daily futures trading plan for ES:

1. Determine the likely direction for the market, bull
or bear and write here =


2. Determine price levels that may change bull or bear
sentiment and write here=


3. Mark all important trend lines and price levels on your chart. That includes longer term trend line and price patterns, as well as market profile value areas and pivot points.



4. Don’t buy or sell the open.



5. Watch the market for the first thirty minutes. Look at the $TICK, $TRIN, $VIX, $UVOL, $DVOL, BANK and $ISSU (if you can get access to it) and determine whether or not these match your bullish or bearish sentiments.

If two or more of these disagree check here: Look for reversal

If two or more of these agree check here: Go with the market

If both could get ticked check here: Sit on your hands

(Definitions of agreeing or disagreeing for:
1. $TICK - Bullish – more ticks above the zero than beneath, or trending up and ticks even
Bearish- more ticks beneath the zero than above, or trending down and ticks even

2. $TRIN - Bullish – trending down or chopping sideways in the .45 to .80 area.
Bearish- trending up or chopping sideways in the .85 - .95 area.

3. $VIX- Bullish- trending down
Bearish- trending up

4. $UVOL- Bullish- trending up
Bearish- trending down

5. $DVOL- Bullish- trending down
Bearish- trending up

6. BANK- Bullish- trending up
Bearish- trending down

7. $ISSU- Bullish- above 1.5 or between .5 and 1.5
Bearish- below . 5 or between .5 and 1.5


6. Going with the market. When there is a strong rally mark the fib lines from the low to the high, or high to low. I will use only clean ambushes ( all candles are one color and the buying or the selling is quick and aggressive - no dojis involved unless at the top or bottom), and buy at the 50 with a stop two ticks below the 61.


7. Looking for reversal = Don't. Go with the general direction of the market for ambush trading.


8. If approaching major trend line from a daily chart, market profile area, or pivot, then= sell or buy if a clear signal is received. (A clear signal is all of the rules above plus a $TICK overbought, or oversold extreme + divergence on the $VIX and BANK.

9. Daily cash target after commissions is 200 dollars. Once 200 dollars is reached, stop trading. If existing trade has surpassed that level, move stop to just above that level, and continue the trade.

10. Daily loss limit is 200 dollars including commissions. If the 200 level is hit, stop trading for the day.

11. Exit = after 1 point move up, stop goes to break even +1 tick.
After break even, exit is discretionary. Trailing stop or pre-set target. I prefer to protect profits than catch runners.

 

[gamma]

This is one of the best posts I have seen in along time,Fantastic4 shows how trading does not have to be all hyped up and confusing.
Simply Brilliant!

 

[Lee Shepherd]

92% of online day trading accounts fail, and are whiped out. That's fact.



9. Daily cash target after commissions is 200 dollars. Once 200 dollars is reached, stop trading. If existing trade has surpassed that level, move stop to just above that level, and continue the trade.

10. Daily loss limit is 200 dollars including commissions. If the 200 level is hit, stop trading for the day.

11. Exit = after 1 point move up, stop goes to break even +1 tick.
After break even, exit is discretionary. Trailing stop or pre-set target. I prefer to protect profits than catch runners.

Just wondered:

You state that 92% fail, thats fact. From where? this is a genuine question.


Regarding number 9, I've heard of people doing this before but I still dont get, I fully understand that if you're having a losing day then stop trading as for some reason (maybe you or the system on that particular day) is not working and needs to be revised before bleeding more cash, but, If you're having a good day, why stop?

Make hay when the sun shines. Some days your system will do better than others. Also, if your aiming for a target to stop working at -200 or +200 (inc comms) then this gives you an automatic ratio over time of 1:1 risk/reward. You may wish to revise this figure as you are stacking the odds against you and making it unecessarily hard for yourself.


I know nothing of the strat you have posted nor (if I'm honest) fully understand it.
You need to ask yourself a few questions, here's a few one of them:

How long has this been tested in live time?
How has it performed?
Has it been tested in different market conditions?

Question 3 is most interesting as people backtest which is never the same as it's done in hindsight and live testing is done in current market conditions, when the market changes, and ultimately it does, the system needs to adapt and adapt very quicky.

 

[Grey1]

hi,

after suffering a major loss 6 months ago I have been demo trading and recently re-entered with a small pot and 50pence pp. I lasted 4 weeks and was once again wiped out. I seem to be losing slower though.

I was doing well, winning some and losing some, however, I seemed to have too wide stops and not let winners run, therefore my my risk / reward was all wrong. even at 50ppp I was risking too much % per trade. eventually it was too much.

I will take another break and try agian soon but my question is - how many are actually making profits trading ?????

We had a live daytrading session yesterday with 1 loss only ( SKF and that was only due to PENDING OREDER TO BE FILLED DUE TO IMMENSE VOLATLITY ) and the rest all wins with tiny tiny drawdawn if not zer0 ,,

some took $2/ share some 4$/share in 1 day ,, this is a great result specially when the market was so so volatile and to be able to get a perfect entry was a difficult task but we still managed to beat the market.

Nearly all the trades went into profit straight away

This is a stastistical game and 1 day win does not mean jackS**t never the less win is win and we still have not had a losing day in any of the LIVE trading sessions

Yes you can make money from the market ,, DONOT give up ,, Education is every thing

Grey1
WALL STREET = GREY1 on the pal talk screen

 

[UKtradergirl]

We had a live daytrading session yesterday with 1 loss only ( SKF and that was only due to PENDING OREDER TO BE FILLED DUE TO IMMENSE VOLATLITY ) and the rest all wins with tiny tiny drawdawn if not zer0 ,,

some took $2/ share some 4$/share in 1 day ,, this is a great result specially when the market was so so volatile and to be able to get a perfect entry was a difficult task but we still managed to beat the market.

Nearly all the trades went into profit straight away

This is a stastistical game and 1 day win does not mean jackS**t never the less win is win and we still have not had a losing day in any of the LIVE trading sessions

Yes you can make money from the market ,, DONOT give up ,, Education is every thing

Grey1
WALL STREET = GREY1 on the pal talk screen

What Lee says has been so true for me. On good days, the market is obviously suiting your trading style and you certainly don't want to give up just because you hit a target! Yesterday was one particularly good day for me. After a few hours i wondered if i should stop or not because i was doing so well and just walk away, but- well, i'm glad i continued trading because i went on to double my profits.

Now, if i were to go gambling, playing blackjack or roulette or whatever, i most certainly WOULD walk away, and very quick, at the soonest point i was in profit. But that's a whole different ball game.

 

[chilltrader]

Just wondered:

... but, If you're having a good day, why stop?

Very simple answer to that - at least in my case.

I use a system to trade an index future (working quite well.. touchwood!).

If I continue trading after 13:00, I give up most (70%+) of the gains made for the day.

Makes sense to stop then doesn't it?

 

[gamma]

Walking away, after reaching you target is not a economic consideration, but a psychological factor.
It is a preset, to ensure that trading, does not take over your life, and you do not become addicted to it.
I know a lot of traders will trade 18 hours a day, and if physically possible would trade24/7
There is more to life than trading, it is only a means to fulfill other wishes. and desires.
It is also about consistancy and setting targets and achieving them.
The alternative is some sort of mini anarchism in your trading asperations.
The major reason the so called "90% lose"is not because, they are stupid or trading is very difficult, they simply do not have a set of rules, which should include targets for day, week, month etc.
When I chat to people and ask them the simpliest question such as" what was the high for day "they are dumbfounded that this is of relevance.
Trading should include.
1. target
2. trade preparation
3. trade entry
3.trade management
4. trade exit
5.trade analysis.

Not having Rules, targets in your strategy is the reason the "90% " fail.
Where does this figure come from anyway?

I don't know if trading can really be compared to gambling
gambling is based on chance.
I am a very unlucky gambler, but as a trader following my set of rules I do well.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Very simple answer to that - at least in my case.

I use a system to trade an index future (working quite well.. touchwood!).

If I continue trading after 13:00, I give up most (70%+) of the gains made for the day.

Makes sense to stop then doesn't it?

No, you've missed the point entirely.

Your statement cannot be argued with because it's something that you have discovered (whether its in your system or you).

You are deciding to stop due to your statistical data that makes total sense, however, if its still morning and you're winning, why stop? Why limit yourself to a set target, after all, thats why we use trailing stops ect. Make the most you can, when you can. ie, make hay while the sun shines. So, why stop when you're winning?

Thats the question.

 

[chilltrader]

No, you've missed the point entirely.

Your statement cannot be argued with because it's something that you have discovered (whether its in your system or you).

You are deciding to stop due to your statistical data that makes total sense, however, if its still morning and you're winning, why stop? Why limit yourself to a set target, after all, thats why we use trailing stops ect. Make the most you can, when you can. ie, make hay while the sun shines. So, why stop when you're winning?

Thats the question.

For that I would recommend you read gamma's post on rules/trading/life/discipline

I personally don't set targets.. not monetary ones at least.. only time.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

For that I would recommend you read gamma's post on rules/trading/life/discipline

Sorry mate,

I must have now missed your point entirely.

I'm gonna put on my big head hat for the moment.

Why would I need to read Gamma's post on rules/trading/life and discipline, although a very good post, I already trade full time for a living. I've been making money from the markets for years and funnily enough, this allows me to lead a fullfilling life that I enjoy.

How would this help me, please tell me old boy.

 

[chilltrader]

Sorry mate,

I must have now missed your point entirely.

I'm gonna put on my big head hat for the moment.

Why would I need to read Gamma's post on rules/trading/life and discipline, although a very good post, I already trade full time for a living. I've been making money from the markets for years and funnily enough, this allows me to lead a fullfilling life that I enjoy.

How would this help me, please tell me old boy.

So you can understand the point of view of why one would have the need to stop - even when winning.

Also further to my last post.. even if I've posted consecutive winners right uptil 13:00,
I still stop.

Got more to my life than trading!

So whether its 13:00 or 18:00 or 200$ or -200$ is irrelevant.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

So you can understand the point of view of why one would have the need to stop - even when winning.

Also further to my last post.. even if I've posted consecutive winners right uptil 13:00,
I still stop.

:!:Got more to my life than trading!:!:

So whether its 13:00 or 18:00 or 200$ or -200$ is irrelevant.

Hi mate,

Dont take this the wrong way, I'm not attacking you here but if we have better things to do other than trading, that makes us money and could be considered our job, then, why are we chatting on the net like strangers about trading that earns us no money whatsoever, why aren't we down the pub chatting or talking to our mates or loved ones or watching telly or anything.

Unless.....chatting on trade2win makes you happier than trading or anything else you could be doing at the moment.

I'll be honest here, I love talking shop, I love trading and would do it at the weekend if the markets were open. I also dont have many other interests other than holidays away and drinking and eating and socializing, even when on holiday I have my PDA in hand.

I enjoy talking on trade2win and am shortly going round a mates house to also talk about trading, whoopeee, some might say, get a life, whateva. They could be right, but this is my life, it pays for my life and in return I give it as much time as I can devote whilst enjoying every moment of it while it lasts.

I'm only as good as my last trade.

 

[UKtradergirl]

Hi mate,

Dont take this the wrong way, I'm not attacking you here but if we have better things to do other than trading, that makes us money and could be considered our job, then, why are we chatting on the net like strangers about trading that earns us no money whatsoever, why aren't we down the pub chatting or talking to our mates or loved ones or watching telly or anything.

Unless.....chatting on trade2win makes you happier than trading or anything else you could be doing at the moment.

I'll be honest here, I love talking shop, I love trading and would do it at the weekend if the markets were open. I also dont have many other interests other than holidays away and drinking and eating and socializing, even when on holiday I have my PDA in hand.

I enjoy talking on trade2win and am shortly going round a mates house to also talk about trading, whoopeee, some might say, get a life, whateva. They could be right, but this is my life, it pays for my life and in return I give it as much time as I can devote whilst enjoying every moment of it while it lasts.

I'm only as good as my last trade.

I don't have a life outside trading. I would do it 24/7 if i could. I'm not making big gains, but i'm not making losses either, just plodding along getting better as i go... adding to my capital slowly but surely. I'd much rather spend an evening looking at charts (and chatting to the good people here at t2w) than going to the cinema. Sad life, isn't it?!!

 

[chilltrader]

You asked a question "why stop when winning?"

So I gave you the answer for that.

Now you seem to be going off a tangent.

"why are we chatting on the net like strangers " - er I know you only via the net, do you visit my local pub? if yes, then please wear a red hat next time and I'll recognise you and even buy you a drink or two

"about trading that earns us no money whatsoever, " Sorry to hear that... I thought you were one on the winners list?!

You had difficulty understanding why some people "stop when winning" and I explained the view point. The fact that you don't share that view is your personal opinion. No issues with that.

Hi mate,

Dont take this the wrong way, I'm not attacking you here but if we have better things to do other than trading, that makes us money and could be considered our job, then, why are we chatting on the net like strangers about trading that earns us no money whatsoever, why aren't we down the pub chatting or talking to our mates or loved ones or watching telly or anything.

Unless.....chatting on trade2win makes you happier than trading or anything else you could be doing at the moment.

I'll be honest here, I love talking shop, I love trading and would do it at the weekend if the markets were open. I also dont have many other interests other than holidays away and drinking and eating and socializing, even when on holiday I have my PDA in hand.

I enjoy talking on trade2win and am shortly going round a mates house to also talk about trading, whoopeee, some might say, get a life, whateva. They could be right, but this is my life, it pays for my life and in return I give it as much time as I can devote whilst enjoying every moment of it while it lasts.

I'm only as good as my last trade.