soldintime
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Property to buy is very expensive. However rented property is not. There is a glut in apartments. I have now seen apartments with 3 bedrooms for rent at the unbelievable low price of €350 a month. You can easily stay as a tourist in Andorra (although the maximum of 6 months is only allowed, no one will check). As we have a family and want the kids to join local school we applied for Passive Permanent Residency, which took 3 months to complete. That can be a high cost for some. However if you move to pay no tax on your trading profits this should not be a massive problem. I am impressed so far with the school system.
I don't know how long the current tax situation will last in Andorra as income from land sales for property development has dried up. The income from cigarette/alcohol sales and tourism is not enough.
soldintime
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I'll admit to that. Plus some downhill mountain biking in summer.Admit...yoiu just went there so you could ski in winter?
OptionsTrader1
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I'm new to the board, and a full time daytrader. Can anyone tell me what the tax law is in Germany for someone like myself? Like I mention, I trade fulltime for a living? I'm looking at a possible move to Europe and would like to live in a trader friendly country. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm leaning towards Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Poland. Please help. Thank you in advance.
Germany is the negative opposite to a tax haven!
60% of the worlds Tax documentation was written about the German Tax system!
Trading stocks etc if bought and sold in the same year is treated as taxable income. Plus all the living costs are high, plus there are insurances and other taxes that you cannot get out of. >50% of your earnings will be taken by the government/insurance/pension companies.
Come to think of it. Why the hell do i live there!
Switzerland & Austria would be similar. Poland i don't know.
60% of the worlds Tax documentation was written about the German Tax system!
Trading stocks etc if bought and sold in the same year is treated as taxable income. Plus all the living costs are high, plus there are insurances and other taxes that you cannot get out of. >50% of your earnings will be taken by the government/insurance/pension companies.
Come to think of it. Why the hell do i live there!
Switzerland & Austria would be similar. Poland i don't know.
OptionsTrader1
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Seriously? I thought in Germany all gains would be classified under capital gains tax based on a sliding scale? It's seems that is lower then ordinary income. I could always pay US taxes instead, right? I'm quite aware of the health insurance but I guess it's better then not having any at all here stateside and if you do, nothing is covered. Would I have to pay into the German pension system as a US citizen? I will have residency since my wife is an EU citizen. I daytrade fulltime, so no job needed. Thanks for responding.
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It's not an option to choose where you pay tax. If you live in germany, you pay tax in germany on world income.
It is effectively capital gains from trading but this is only added to your income after a certain amount of CG allowance.
The alternative could be Andorra like the other guys are mentioning. They have no taxes on CG or income so long as you are considered "there" more than 183 days a year. Its a bit complicated and you need to give the government a €33k bond to be allowed to live there. Refundable when you leave. Others will know more. I'm only repeating what i read on the net.
OptionsTrader1
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Thank you for the info. I'll look into Andorra. Do you know anything about Switzerland? I haven't been able to find anything out on the net. I was looking into moving to Switzerland or Germany. I found out that Germany takes taxes directly from your monthly capital gains. At least that's what one German forex broker told me. They said the broker handles everything.
EdgeTradingHub
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Hola, I've also decided to relocate to Andorra to pursue trading activities. Please contact me by private message if you want to get in touch there. French speakers are my preferred choice to connect however english and catalan are just fine (as long as you teach me and/or you're forgiving ) Cheers !
) Cheers !
p-lab
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lloydbee
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ok so now I am very interested. Trading, Downhilling, low taxes... business sense.
Like many here I am looking at moving to avoid giving far too much of my earnings to the stupid mole we call prime minister so she can indulge herself with another outrageous pay rise.
As an Australian resident trading Equity Options on the US markets I am scouring the www for a nice place (or information) to call home for a few/several months of the year.
There is a lot of old information in this thread and I am wondering if it still applies, where are the best places to pay as less tax as possible while contributing to the local economy.
Disregarding weather (not everyone likes +30C) and personal opinions of the place, just ease of becoming a local for whatever time is needed each year to catch a break for someone from the convict colony nation that is Australia.
I've read a few names that seem popular - Andorra, Bahamas, Cyprus, Gibraltar, Isle of Man
any current information would be very appreciated.
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In order to not be an Australian resident for tax purposes you essentially have to no longer live here. That is, don't own a home here, no bank accounts (or at least day to day operating account) and live overseas for a substantial period of time. You can visit for up to 180 days a year (I think), but any more than that and the ATO would probably consider you a tax resident. If you have family here (eg kids at school) than it becomes hard to argue you live overseas. Also, if you set up in a tax free location, you can try not declaring the income here, but eventaully the ATO data matching program will catch up with you. For example, they will match the rent you pay (or the mortgage payments you make on a house) with your income and if its clear you can't afford the place from the income you have declared, the ATO will start asking questions. Choose a location because you want ot live there, not because you want to save some money on tax.
AndrewJamesRohan
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I have been researching Andorra as well to move and live in. it will be my choice to go to after researching more than 50 different countries that "offer" tax reduction or tax free living. There is this website I found about Andorra living in Andorra guide on residency relocation advice the creator's fees for helping you move to Andorra seem reasonable and apparently she was a U.K resident before moving to Andorra. I'm also about to start learning the whole trading thing ha ha ha. so any advice regarding trading would be greatly appreciated. Regards Andrew
counter_violent
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This is very much cart before horse.
How about making sure you are a consistantly profitable trader before deciding where to take advantage of tax status.
Given that you didn't seem able to figure this out in the right order, i'd say your chances of making any money in the markets are approximately zero.
Have a nice day !
lloydbee
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Here's something constructive...
Learning to trade will cost you one in 3 ways
- Time - Get ready for years of trying to develop a working system if you have an adaptive mindset, willing to sacrifice economically as well as socially.
- Going Live - Go live and watch your accounts (yes several) being wiped out as you learn new lessons.
- Paid Mentoring - only ever pay a mentor once you have spoken in person to several of their successful traders
There is far too many people out there calling themselves successful traders/mentors nothing says how good they are like a very high success rate of students smiling because their trading is making money.
Beware your about to enter a pool full of sharks.
Ignore all large training institutions, i say.
lloydbee
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Thanks for the info, looks like I meet pretty much all the good that you mentioned, and I do plan on living in a place that I want and not just for tax reasons BUT of course it's nice to know my 'not so' hard earned money is not being squandered by a useless back pedaling mole who thinks she is now worth so much money.
capital gain taxed for traders
EdgeTradingHub
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Please avoid any introducing services. You can do pretty much everything on your own. There is nothing complicated and people are kind and helpful. Even if you only speak english, there is much more profesionnal help available from the street (I can explain my point of view more in details privately, from experience...)
Andorra is changing a lot of laws right now that will apply at the end of march, you should either hurry up or hold on to restudy your personal case as a few points are still to be cleared up.
Prop trading is not considered work, so if you don't have an overseas business running that they will likely tax 10% with the new laws (then you can continue trading tax free on a sidenote) as well as be forced to pay for their social security system (about 400 EUR per month for health, invalidity and retirement + 100 EUR for subsidiary insurance for full coverage) as a worker , from this point in time then the financial needs to settle as passive resident should jump from 30 000 to 430 000 EUR (to invest in property or financial investment)
EdgeTradingHub
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I have swiss nationality. Forget it, trading as a living is taxed close to french standards. Only investment is tax free.
There are 3 sorts of havens :
- personnal tax haven
- corporate tax haven
- bank secrecy protection
Contrary to popular belief, Switzerland is only the third one and expensive for the other 2. Cost of living is also very high (Andorra is a lot cheaper with a matching quality of life)
So if you relocate to a tax haven, do you have to ensure you trade or have your brokerage and bank accounts also in a tax free haven to avoid the possibility of some nasty taxes.
How do double taxation agreements normally drop? For example, if Andorra concludes an agreement with Spain and you have your brokerage in Madrid, would the Spaniards go "one of us has to tax you, if Andorra won't we will, thank you very much - next"?
How do double taxation agreements normally drop? For example, if Andorra concludes an agreement with Spain and you have your brokerage in Madrid, would the Spaniards go "one of us has to tax you, if Andorra won't we will, thank you very much - next"?
