Advice on computers

[random12345]

nothing wrong with a bit overkill when it comes to making money
especially as software manufacturers make programs even more complex every wk and then the P.C slows down again
a trading computer is not the same as one for watching movies or listening to music, and with PCs so cheap, there is no reason not to have a separate trading computer

a major factor in a slow computer is basic file and HD maintenance
keep the drives defragmented at all times (obvious but how many do it regularly)
and an easy one is to keep nothing that is nt needed on a main desktop screen,
this can slow PCs down no end (not sure why) but if you save files to the desktop, or add too many icons, after a while a PC can work like a dog
also re-load windows at least once every 3 months, even better if more frequently (saved off a back up drive)
makes sense anyway as new viruses can get in and not all virus software is updated quick enough to pick all up

anyhow we get what we pay for 🙂

http://www.auslogics.com/en/software/disk-defrag/

I disagree with a lot of this - the min computer specs in that PDF are crazily overpowered - you won't even receive enough ticks to make that worthwhile unless you've got a gb line streaming about 40 instruments all decorated in indicator spaghetti... the reality is most trading software is too sh!tty to properly support multi core processors anyway and most super new processors aren't clocked any higher than older generations, esp with i7 etc.

The only real advancement in trading software is to use 64 bit variants so it can address considerably more RAM.

Defragmenting NTFS is a bit like buffing up a tap - looks nice, but won't do much for performance.

Not sure what you mean by desktop icons slowing down the computer - sounds like a video card driver issue with Aero perhaps.

 

[Liquid validity]

Defragmenting NTFS is a bit like buffing up a tap - looks nice, but won't do much for performance.

Agree with everything else and this, sort of.
I'm not sure why but one run through of defrag on NTFS is crap.
As you say it doesn't do much, with several defrag runs, I have noticed
improvements in OS responsiveness.
Basically, I keep re-running until all the defragged files in the graphic
have been sorted.

Saying that, the bulk of that is probably down to me restoring an image
clone where all the core OS files are jumbled.
Other than OS responsiveness, defrag is only a real issue for intensive
data streaming - network servers, or in a domestic setting AV use.

In a normal trading setup drive seek and retrieval speed isn't that much of an
issue as you say.
That PDF made me laugh though - he pretty much says that slippage is
down to CPU speed 😆

 

[random12345]

Agree with everything else and this, sort of.
I'm not sure why but one run through of defrag on NTFS is crap.
As you say it doesn't do much, with several defrag runs, I have noticed
improvements in OS responsiveness.
Basically, I keep re-running until all the defragged files in the graphic
have been sorted.

Saying that, the bulk of that is probably down to me restoring an image
clone where all the core OS files are jumbled.
Other than OS responsiveness, defrag is only a real issue for intensive
data streaming - network servers, or in a domestic setting AV use.

In a normal trading setup drive seek and retrieval speed isn't that much of an
issue as you say.
That PDF made me laugh though - he pretty much says that slippage is
down to CPU speed 😆

I hear you. For me, the years of being ocd about squeezing every last bit of performance out of a computer have passed some time ago. FAT32s and single core O/S' needed all the help they could get, but most performance issues these days are down to software optimisation if you're not trying to display a kabillion polygons a second. It's come to the point where CMOS and cooling solutions are coming under so much stress from the power available these days that new materials are needed for any major major advancements. Emulating 8+ cores even on retail back-test optimisation can cook a modern PC without decent cooling as I'm sure you know.

Trading software tends to be entirely preloaded into RAM so a highly optimised or SSD HD would just load your tick databases quicker, which I guess is something. Then again NT does do quite a bit of crunching when you first open a chart or add an indicator from what I remember?

 

[Liquid validity]

I hear you. For me, the years of being ocd about squeezing every last bit of performance out of a computer have passed some time ago. FAT32s and single core O/S' needed all the help they could get, but most performance issues these days are down to software optimisation if you're not trying to display a kabillion polygons a second. It's come to the point where CMOS and cooling solutions are coming under so much stress from the power available these days that new materials are needed for any major major advancements. Emulating 8+ cores even on retail back-test optimisation can cook a modern PC without decent cooling as I'm sure you know.

Trading software tends to be entirely preloaded into RAM so a highly optimised or SSD HD would just load your tick databases quicker, which I guess is something. Then again NT does do quite a bit of crunching when you first open a chart or add an indicator from what I remember?

Agree with all that.
The bold highlight, true usually about 30-50% spike or temp load on my test box.
The heaviest CPU loads on NT that I've seen come from launch,
chart load (same for tape, DOM and L2 if you use it)
and oddly enough window resize / reposition.
Other than that, its usually 5% or less CPU load even with open trade.

Forgot to add the things that are more important - open / close trade or limit order chart entry
also cause a 30% CPU spike on a 2.8 GHZ dual core,
nowhere near the limits of even a low spec PC these days.

 

[WR1]

I disagree with a lot of this - the min computer specs in that PDF are crazily overpowered - you won't even receive enough ticks to make that worthwhile unless you've got a gb line streaming about 40 instruments all decorated in indicator spaghetti... the reality is most trading software is too sh!tty to properly support multi core processors anyway and most super new processors aren't clocked any higher than older generations, esp with i7 etc.

The only real advancement in trading software is to use 64 bit variants so it can address considerably more RAM.

Defragmenting NTFS is a bit like buffing up a tap - looks nice, but won't do much for performance.

Not sure what you mean by desktop icons slowing down the computer - sounds like a video card driver issue with Aero perhaps.

to be honest i disagree with alot of what some of you guys have said about trading P.Cs on here, and say on a regular basis around this forum
but if info you think that info is duff, and not relevant to you, so be it, just ignore it, it was n't meant for you anyway 🙂
but it will likely be relevant to some others,
it was just something i noticed - especially the files saved to desktop, it even slowed boot up times, now the desktop is clear (more or less) the whole P.C runs much smoother for much longer
and as latency means money - it makes sense to keep everything as clean as possible

i run tons of charts and custom indicators - could n't say how many charts or indicators, but a powerful P.C for me is essential
and these P.Cs are not that much at £1500, which is cheaper than a decent AV Processor or AV amp so makes no difference

you could say why buy a Porsche when you can just drive a mini or Golf

if you disagree no problem - but i have better things to do than disagree on forums 🙂
life is to short

 

[Liquid validity]

and as latency means money - it makes sense to keep everything as clean as possible

PC latency is not the bottleneck.
Ping latency is.
If latency bothers you that much, the money would be
more effectively spent on a leased line.
If you don't scalp, its not much of an issue anyway.

 

[WR1]

PC latency is not the bottleneck.
Ping latency is.
If latency bothers you that much, the money would be
more effectively spent on a leased line.
If you don't scalp, its not much of an issue anyway.

i'm not disagreeing
but latency does n't just apply to the internet

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/L/latency.html
http://www.yourdictionary.com/latency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latency_(engineering)

actually (as its a day off) i have got nothing better to do than disagree today 🙂

 

[Liquid validity]

i'm not disagreeing
but latency does n't just apply to the internet

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/L/latency.html
http://www.yourdictionary.com/latency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latency_(engineering)

actually (as its a day off) i have got nothing better to do than disagree today 🙂

Yes true.
No one is saying that PC latency is not present.
PC's are capable of internal latency of 3ms or less (sub 1ms in certain cases) even with high load Av processing,
that involves real time data streaming from HDD and real time CPU processing.
Raw CPU latency is even lower:
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

Whereas a typical consumer landline connection will
have 30-50ms latency from PC to UK broker on a good retail connection.
With a U.S. broker that can climb to 100-300ms if you are in the UK.
http://compnetworking.about.com/od/...es-of-lag-on-computer-networks-and-online.htm

Test your own ping - select a server that is closest to your broker location:
http://www.speedtest.net/

Net connection latency is far greater than internal PC processing latency.
Even 10 yr old PC's are capable of 3ms AV processing.
Most CPU's are multicore to boost performance, up to 8 cores currently
at the top end.
The individual cores are not much faster than older dualcore CPU's.

The power can only really be used by gamers, and music/video production.
Most trading software will not address all 8 cores, unless you are doing a backtest or similar.
More to the point, they don't need to.
http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=34109
CPU load from a web based platform will be even lower, as the load is on the
host server.

 

[Jason Rogers]

But your screen (however large) is still gonna be 1920 * 1080 (or thereabouts) resolution non?

Yes ADB, I currently use a 60-inch LCD with 1080p resolution.

PS: Is your forum name a cricket reference?

 

[random12345]

to be honest i disagree with alot of what some of you guys have said about trading P.Cs on here, and say on a regular basis around this forum
but if info you think that info is duff, and not relevant to you, so be it, just ignore it, it was n't meant for you anyway 🙂
but it will likely be relevant to some others,
it was just something i noticed - especially the files saved to desktop, it even slowed boot up times, now the desktop is clear (more or less) the whole P.C runs much smoother for much longer
and as latency means money - it makes sense to keep everything as clean as possible

i run tons of charts and custom indicators - could n't say how many charts or indicators, but a powerful P.C for me is essential
and these P.Cs are not that much at £1500, which is cheaper than a decent AV Processor or AV amp so makes no difference

you could say why buy a Porsche when you can just drive a mini or Golf

if you disagree no problem - but i have better things to do than disagree on forums 🙂
life is to short

I don't mind if you disagree, I'm only interested in the facts of the matter. As LV has pointed out, if you want an 'edge' in scalping then get an uncontested low latency line or co-locate an automated system. Any ticks appearing to skip are not because your trading software was waiting for cpu frequency unless you're watching high resolution webcams of a certain type at the same time...

Your trading software cannot use what you are giving it unless you're using a bespoke system.

 

[WR1]

i'm surprised no ones mentioned an HD video projector yet 🙂

 

[Liquid validity]

i'm surprised no ones mentioned an HD video projector yet 🙂

You do realise that by AV I don't mean domestic TV or hifi music don't you?

I mean this type of stuff:
http://www.avid.com/US/categories/Professional-Video-Editing-Finishing
http://www.avid.com/US/products/family/pro-tools
https://www.apple.com/uk/logic-pro/

The vast majority of what you watch on TV, or listen to on your ipod
has been mixed or edited using that type of software.
That stuff does stretch a CPU, so much so that they use external DSP racks
to handle the load.

Trading software by comparison is a joke in terms of CPU load.

 

[WR1]

I don't mind if you disagree, I'm only interested in the facts of the matter. As LV has pointed out, if you want an 'edge' in scalping then get an uncontested low latency line or co-locate an automated system. Any ticks appearing to skip are not because your trading software was waiting for cpu frequency unless you're watching high resolution webcams of a certain type at the same time...

Your trading software cannot use what you are giving it unless you're using a bespoke system.

the kit is out there for us to buy, and as long as one does n't go completely over board and is happy with the price and performance, there is no problem
and i do use a bit more than the average trader
i'm not saying buy a £3000 chip - but 1000-1500 on a PC is money well spent

we will have to agree to disagree on this one

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Yes ADB, I currently use a 60-inch LCD with 1080p resolution.

PS: Is your forum name a cricket reference?

Would have thought you'd need to be sitting a good few meters away from it to pervent it looking "blocky"?

Nick adapted from 70's kids TV program "The Flashing Blade" adapted for these more PC times

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Getting back to the OP . . . just finished the specs for a PC I'll be building for my old man, interweb browsing, on-line poker and light MS Office stuff. Advantage of a DIY build (for me anyway) is that I know that, given the budget and requirements, it's exactly what is required. For sure you could buy one pre-built with the same specs a fair bit cheaper, but NOT with those exact parts (ie you'd be getting a cheap no-name power supply, a crappier case etc).

Point is, slap any £150+ graphics card in there to get the 3 monitor solution you want and, unless you're doing HFT, I reckon it'll serve fine as a trading/multi media PC.

As an FYI, this build + one of these gfx cards is my current trading/gaming (everything turned up to 11) rig outputting to the twin Dell2711 monitors (so giving me 2 x 2560 x 1440 pixels) I mentioned earlier

 

[Jason Rogers]

Would have thought you'd need to be sitting a good few meters away from it to pervent it looking "blocky"?

The 1080p looks good from where I sit on my sofa about 8 to 10 feet away from my TV. I use a wireless mouse and keyboard on a rolling laptop table kind of like this though mine was less than $20.