Advice from any Successful Property Investors Please!

Hi Tim,

I have over 20 years property owning experience (this is what brings me to daytrading, as I have a good rental income that gives me a nice living). I must confess that I havn't bought any property for 5 years, as I have not found anything with a good enough yield - I like at least 10%. I have come across one or two propertes recently that have fitted this criteria, but missed out to other 'faster buyers'.

Your business idea sounds 'fairly good', but did you know that Phil Spencer's private property finding business is in financial dificulties. These kind of bespoke property finding services tend to be very 'clicky', by which I mean, you have to know the right people in order to get the wealthy clientele.

A good business based on those lines would be to find high yielding rental property for investors. I know from experience, that it is a bind constantly searching auction listings, and/or agents listings for 'good' property, and would pay a finders fee for any I deem suitable.
 
Times are good for property buyers.
Low interest rates and bottoming house prices some at below 50% 2006 prices.
My business plan is working great, helping others stay in there homes when repossession is up on them.
Short term the income is decent, but when prices go up the business will have lots of equity to speculate into something new. May be the ever lasting battery :) ?
Lots of money is made in recessions, property is a solid investment if one has the correct business modal.
 
I am curious as to how you make money doing that.

I set up a website about two years ago promoting sale/rent back, and receive hundreds of proposals of so called 'desperate people' looking to sell their houses cheap for cash. Upon communication with these people, I find that any offer that I put forward is counteracted by another sale/rent back company offering considerably more. I am from the old school where it wasn't out of the ordinary to get 20% yields on a property. In fact two of my first purchases were 18%, and one had a sitting tenant. The mortgages were only about 4% back then aswell

I just cannot see how any investor can make money on less than 8% return, even at the moment, property prices are still way too high. IMO the 'buy to let' brigade is responsible for the housing boom and bust, by harking "I'm not after a return - I'm going for growth". I always knew this would be a hiding to nothing.

The equity in my property portfolio as indeed accumulated considerably, with most of my buildings paid off now, but I would love to get back to low property prices, and good returns.

Can I ask you what criteria you use as a basis for purchasing a property?
 
Hi Venture Travel,
I use a stacking system, this is what the property has to have.
Minimum 25% equity.
Living Tennants that can afford the rent.
In a Good State of repair.
If one of the above is missing I walk away.
All are re payment mortages over 20yrs.
Find me deals and I pay £1K per completion per 100k property.
Yes Im in it for the long term and it dose generate substancial revenues if this is done right, I mean for every deal I set up I would recieve any thing from £4-15k soon as the tenancey starts not in equity but in hard cash.
The most profit is from the £300k+ house's
Its not unusuall to purchase for £350K when the house is worth £480K mortage it for £380K minus £350K what you pay for it minus fees £3.5 to the finder £7K to lender, leagal and stamp duty will give £15k+ instant profit.
On the balance sheets it shows £480K minus £380 = £100k equity
Not bad Ehh ?
Now if you were to do two deals like that per year = £30k income
Then do one deal per month at £4K per deal x 10 =£40 k income
So by working smart and putting this into action £70K P.A. is achievable

The £70K minus fully expensed car, Gardener, House Keeping (I have brokers visit my home) pluss other tools & expense's that are nececeary to do business like , eating out with clients ect, weekends away ect.
This will Still leave you with £50K P.A.

To do this correctly you need agents to find deals ( I pay agents £1K per £100K) who will get the best deals plus usuall internet sites and possibly 15hrs work per week management time.

Set up costs are minimal a days trading will be ok £500 internet, 0800 free phone number and office address £400 good colour brochures printed £1000
Then with a bit of luck by the end of month one your up and running and in profit ?

Good Luck , I have done the courses and only been in this for just one year, through out this time I have bought of landlords who are screaming for the exits at well below market value.

Some are selling houses and apartments at 50% below what they have paid for them.

Its early days for me in the property game in one year the business has lots of equity and I purchased 15 properties the rent paid by tennants covers, maintenance insurance and mortage's.
I do not make nothing on the rents untill there fixed rental agreement runs out normally 2years untill I can increase the rent in line with my costs of borrowing. However I will do what ever possible to keep rents low as a happy tennant is a good tennant who looks after the property and stays there.
Out of the 15 deal I have done over the past year the income has been £30K after all expense's, car, equipment ect and set up charges.
2009 I expect to do at least 30 deals and take £130K after expenses this is because I forsee higher value properties will come on the books and it is these type of deals that bring in good initial revenue.
The equity at the end of 2009 should reach with 35 average houses £700K (20k per house) and 15 £900K higher valued houses (£60k per house)
If property values fall further these figure will ecrease, and will increase if the rise.

Over these two years I would have spent over 2000 hours of my time building this business, will it be worth it ?

Time will tell, I may only do 12 deals ?

If all goes to plan which I see no reason for it not to here are the figures.

£190K Income with £2,000,000 in business equity if prices stay similar to today.


I plan to repeat the same each year for 8 yrs, by then the rental income would have increased to give a good income.

I will never ever, never sell a property, when the next property bubble comes to a peak ( 1992 --2007 ) = 15 years or 2025 ish I will then go and buy an ice cream van and visit schools and parks to give children free ice cream on hot sunny days.


Due to time V effort core trading time has been reduced, my girl friend will take over the property business later this year so I can spend more time doing what I do best, Trading Stock Index's over a 12 month pieriod I do OK.


TAKE NOTE I STARTED THIS PROPERTY BUSINESS WITH NOTHING YOU CAN DO THIS TOO OR MESSAGE ME IF YOU OR KNOW SOME ONE WHO REQUIRES ASSISTENCE.


Sorry in advance for any spelling mistakes TomTom
 
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I use a stacking system, this is that the property has to have.
Minimum 25% equity.
Living Tennants.
In a Good Stae of repair.

I am sorry to question your method, maybe it is me, but I just do not understand the new approach to property investment. I have not been on any courses, or read books, attended seminars etc. i've just looked for property, worked out how much I could make on it, and bought it.

So, my question is this; What is a stacking system?

I also have another question; Do you work out a prospective return on a property versus the price?


I don't want to seem awkward, I am just interested to find out how investors operate in the market these days. I know property is supposed to be cheap at the moment, and I suppose some properties are a little more reasonable than a year ago, but I still think that they need to lose at least 50% for me to even think about putting in an offer. I have a few small houses that I bout for around 60,000 GBP a few years ago - and back then I thought I was paying too much, as the yields were only 8%. These houses are now worth (according to the market) about 125,000 GBP. There is no way at all that I would consider putting in an offer to re buy the houses at this price, considering the rent you can receive has hardly increased.
 
Hello

Thought I'd post after reading your reply #27 (TomTom). I heard the same system from a collegue at work at the end of 2007. He is building himself a healthy portfolio of properties here in the North East. It seems you started at a similar time... was there a 'how to' book I missed?

There are some slight differences to his model:

Only buy properties upto the value of £100-110k (Average rent covers mortgage + insurance)
Only buy 2-3 bedroom houses. (The local market is now swamped with flats but affordable family homes will always let out)
All mortgages are 'Interest only' (extra monies from rent excess ensures he lives mortgage free in his own home (repayment mortgage). For the majority of us this would be the first benchmark of improving our standard of living.

He has a good business head on him but has had to put in a lot of hours to get this off the ground and build up the solid team that he can now rely on. I was shocked at the amount of people willing to give up there houses for -30% of market value, this also being before the credit crunch kicking off during 08.

I respect his work ethic but would find it hard doing the same knowing some of the circumstances in which the houses are bought. There are a raft of companies now offering 'equity release' & 'avoid repossesion schemes that are run by cowboys. They must be rubbing their hands together now that the repo stats are on the rise.

I just thought this was too much of a risky venture. The majority of his tenants couldn't afford to keep up on mortgage payments so why would they be willing to keep up with the rent. Especially in the current climate with the job losses. At least with my sideline of trading (spreadbetting forex) I can close out all my positions at night and get a good nights sleep.

Regards
Dan
 
For anyone saying it is a bad time to buy property I would like to ask them, "When is a good time to buy property?" When the market is up? Has anyone been to Buisness 101, buy low, sell high? Also, you will see when the general market is down (business cycle 8-10 yrs. is not the same as the property cycle 5-7 yrs.), rent prices go up. It is ALL cyclical. Whats happening now is nothing new.

As far as ethics go, the foreclosure market will be there whether you buy the house or not. A lot of properties are available from the bank, not the home owner.

I think these posts and forums are waste of time. No one wants to take action and talking is not going to make anyone money. If I am wrong, and there is someone on this site who wants to make serious profits (I beieve this is only done through hard work and solid strategy, which I am in the position to do... no kids, well-exprienced, no bad habits, etc...making sure I do not have obstacles and willing to sacrifice), please let me know.

I doubt I will get any response except for a bunch of nay sayers and smart ass comments.

Henry Ford said it best, "Whether you think you can or whether you think you can´t, you´re right!"
 
Hi Tim,

Wow, I have finally found a thread in T2W I feel confident in giving advice to some trading legends. (I am only 6 months into trading, but 20 years into property).

I have not read any replies yet, because I should be in bed. So this may have already been mentioned or the thread may have taken a new direction.

You asked about courses and books, you mentioned, the need to go back to work.

I have no formal education, never read a property book or been on a course but to use a trading quote I have never had a loosing year.

If you need to work and if it fits into your income requirements, the best education you could have would be to take a job in a combined estate agents and letting agents, the smaller the outfit the better, but in a very competitive and busy location. You could carry on trading part time. In a year or so you should have enough knowledge and confidence to go for it and see that any book or course is useless.

Property is something you know and feel comfortable with through your own experience.
It is all in or all out, not liquid in any way, especially compared to trading, if you have problem tenants and negative equity it is the most un-liquid investment you can imagine.
Above all you will need a complete passion for it IMO.

I am in the opposite situation to you, in that I am on hold in property and trying out trading until the property market settles back down again.
You may find that the availability of credit is more of a market timing factor than the latest property price report.

Kind Regards
Jason

Ps - When I first looked at trading it crossed my mind (only briefly) it may be away of creating wealth to buy more property. But it now seems my tenants are supplementing my trading - Help me - Give me trading tip, before its to late.

EDIT: Wow that was great, this post took my mind off my trade, can lock in pofit now.
 
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Property Investors company was a private real estate investment, which in 1982 wrote the big day in the office accommodation in New York City. It 'was founded by Disque Deane.
 
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