A "First Steps" forum ? lol! Here is my advice: newbies, just quit !

[monktrader]

Just quit before it's too late. I am not going to write a long post explaining in detail why online trading is a loser's game that yet seems to draw very intelligent people . T2W is asking me to post in the forum OK then if I have to post, I just think I have a duty after spending years trading to warn "newbies" (funny I was just on a bike forum and they have a newbie section too, but on a trader's forum the section should be called "new losers") and tell them they are actually being fooled , the industry built a scheme to draw you in while promising all sorts of things( Sell dreams and you will be rich). When you are young , you are naive and ambitious and you are much more vulnerable to the marketing of corporations that sell you the dream. This marketing is so pervasive that you don't realize it's marketing, it's served to investors via TV channels like CNBC, financial and stock picking websites. The dream sold : you can get rich quick in the market (if only you know what to do). ¨Some very smart people have called this "investment porn".

There have been numerous academic studies that contradict that and guess what ? They will be even more right as time goes by, markets become more and more efficient. While there are a few incredibly talented guys ou there who as traders experience success (i.e. make millions or at least decent money for the time they spend on this endeavour), it's almost certain that you won't be one of them. It would be like taking up basketball and deciding you were going to be the next Michael Jordan. Ain't gonna happen in all probability.

If you really want to trade, I suggest either to get a job in the City and hope for the best (that you will actually get where you want to be) or just do it as a hobby with no particular ambition. There are better things to do in life than spending it in front of computer screens or on trading forums .

 

[bbmac]

It's harsh advice and one can't help feeling it results from bitter experience - but the overall message is a good one. - don't believe the hype.

Be prepared to spend 5 years (+) hard work learning to trade and even then is no absolute guarantee of success. The odds are stacked against you - but it is not impossible -there are some that do succeed (if that definition of success is being able to consistently profit from a market [s,] ) - but as a % of the total who start/try than it is almost certainly very low. Looking at it from a risk:reward point of view - you probably wouldn't touch it with a shi!!y stick !

G/L

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

Well I guess you must be right then.

Or maybe aspiring traders should just focus on being "efficient".

The efficient traders are not bothered about the marketing, get rich quick blah blah blah.

True, most are not efficient, but some are.

What about "off-line trading"?

The problem is; to be successful at anything usually requires attention to detail. Your post states that it will not be going into detail, so there for it is not much use to anyone.

If trading success is seen simply as making money, most will fail, however if it is based on a self development you may find yourself making more progress than you thought possible:idea:

 

[tuscan]

You forgot to say what makes you think this way, what experience do you have
Every real trader knows that 'financial' tv is bull**** so is "retail forex" and MT4 , direct market access, financial sqwawk is all trader need, and when he has a lot of money to make mistakes he will gain experience, gain a "feel" and is likely to earn big money. Instead of tellin someone not to get into this you should firstly understand it is possible to get rich when some conditions are provided, but statistically very unlikely indeed, you seem to not see the difference between those 2 things

To me your message is like "I've lost a lot of money and time and figured out that this is hardly possible to get rich and I've finally opened my eyes", well this is your experience. Now you can go to basketball forum and tell them don't aim for being basketball player because you will be very dissapointed, just play for fun but don't do nothing else, and this may be right, ambition is not a good thing but passion is

 

[MoonRocket]

It would be like taking up basketball and deciding you were going to be the next Michael Jordan. Ain't gonna happen in all probability.

With a small amount of talent and big dose of determination anybody can do anything within reason. Most people will except the fact that they don't have Michael Jordon type talent/determination but plenty of "no-names" have become very successful in their chosen field.
The drop out rate is very high in any field, how many start schooling as engineers or accountants and after six years actually enter that work?
My son started his apprenticeship with 30 kids, after four years only 4 work in that field. An amazing failure rate, wouldn't you say.

There are better things to do in life than spending it in front of computer screens or on trading forums .

Couldn't agree more. Paradoxically the most successful seem to spend the least amount of time.

 

[EulerFourier]

Nothing but hard work ahead of you if you ever try to be a trader. Your best bet is to get a job where you are immersed in the field. Doing it on your own is a nightmare... 3 years + from not knowing a bid from an offer and I still have years worth of material to learn. Spent way to long looking for the answers in all the wrong places. If you stick with it and don't blow out in the beginning you'll get to the point where you'll see the bull**** for what it is. And there is an endless supply of it.

It is definitely possible to make small to medium sums of money in the markets. It is possible to make large sums of money as well, but infinitely harder. As someone else said though, most people get caught up in retail forex and MT4 and never move beyond.

 

[ZEN archer]

If you really want to trade, I suggest either to get a job in the City and hope for the best (that you will actually get where you want to be) or just do it as a hobby with no particular ambition. There are better things to do in life than spending it in front of computer screens or on trading forums .

What if one opens an account with a SB company that offers zero spreads?

It sounds like a good idea to me - what can possibly go wrong?

 

[pboyles]

Just quit before it's too late. I am not going to write a long post explaining in detail why online trading is a loser's game that yet seems to draw very intelligent people . T2W is asking me to post in the forum OK then if I have to post, I just think I have a duty after spending years trading to warn "newbies" (funny I was just on a bike forum and they have a newbie section too, but on a trader's forum the section should be called "new losers") and tell them they are actually being fooled , the industry built a scheme to draw you in while promising all sorts of things( Sell dreams and you will be rich). When you are young , you are naive and ambitious and you are much more vulnerable to the marketing of corporations that sell you the dream. This marketing is so pervasive that you don't realize it's marketing, it's served to investors via TV channels like CNBC, financial and stock picking websites. The dream sold : you can get rich quick in the market (if only you know what to do). ¨Some very smart people have called this "investment porn".

There have been numerous academic studies that contradict that and guess what ? They will be even more right as time goes by, markets become more and more efficient. While there are a few incredibly talented guys ou there who as traders experience success (i.e. make millions or at least decent money for the time they spend on this endeavour), it's almost certain that you won't be one of them. It would be like taking up basketball and deciding you were going to be the next Michael Jordan. Ain't gonna happen in all probability.

If you really want to trade, I suggest either to get a job in the City and hope for the best (that you will actually get where you want to be) or just do it as a hobby with no particular ambition. There are better things to do in life than spending it in front of computer screens or on trading forums .

I'm afraid you are 100% right.

 

[Dick Lexic]

i'll tell you what's funny, if you do a google shearch for fraud, theft, being ripped of leagally, they don't even mention the stock market! now that's funny! and here's another funny thing, newbies make lots of new friends! honestly! every knobhead selling the grail starts by saying " dear freind " ha ha, now my advice to newbies if you ever see these words ...hit delete. lol

in my view the stock markets are totally rigged ....work out what they are up to and maybe you stand a chance.

 

[wackypete2]

How are the rest of us supposed to make money if you get rid of all the newbie traders??

Peter

 

[VielGeld]

It's not an easy game, that's for sure.

But what competitive game is? There's always a guy better than you out there. Your best bet is just to keep up and have the drive to outperform the competition.

The rate of failure is high, but this applies to more than just trading. If one were to take the quitting advice, that's great! It means you never wanted to win in that particular field enough to keep pushing despite the obstacles.

So, while quitting ahead is sound advice in itself, it's not advice the winner ever took.

 

[toposwope]

.... or just do it as a hobby with no particular ambition. ...... .

If ever there was a sure fire recipe to lose money, this is it.

Toys and pram comes to mind lol.

 

[Hoggums]

I understand your sentiments and I think for the majority of people you are probably right. However, I am making a tidy sum these days and despite the odd curve ball the market throws at me I’m feeling pretty optimistic about the future. BUT it has been a long journey with plenty of highs and lows and has taken countless hours of my time.

For me it has been an obsession, most of my private thoughts are to do with trading and analysing what if’s and different scenarios. I’ve often thought about whether if someone asked if I would recommend it as a hobby/career – I would probably say no to most people. However – I don’t regret a single minute of my losses/failures as they were a valuable education and I wouldn’t want to deny someone of a similar determination the opportunity.

For me, attending a course was never a consideration, buying an EA a ridiculous idea, I wanted to figure it out all for myself – and I really think you need to be that sort of person to succeed in training. Being able to be honest with yourself and recognise you own inadequacies is vitally important to. For instance, I am no better than flipping a coin to predict future market direction, and that is now factored into my trading method, it’s adapted to my personal strengths.

This is just a personal view – but if you fit all the criteria below then I say go for it, otherwise think seriously – because trading may not be for you.

1. You have spare cash that if you lost, it would make no difference to your life.
2. You’ve never been tempted to buy a trading course or an Expert Advisor
3. You have/had a hobby or skill that took many years of dedication and lots of practise to master (e.g. musical instrument)
4. You were always more interesting in making things and how they were made than actually using them (e.g. computer games/bikes/cars)
5. Ability to recognise your own faults. (most people I know are incapable of this).

 

[MoonRocket]

I've got the first 4.
Four out five is not bad...Right?

 

[Lightning McQueen]

I've got the first 4.
Four out five is not bad...Right?

i only get 1

 

[MoonRocket]

i only get 1

And can you tell us......:cheesy:

 

[Liquid validity]

I got all 5
I'd add a couple.

6 - Ability to recognise that markets are not fair or equal, and understand why.
7 - Accept that trading is a business, the successful participants will do anything to stay in business and take your money.

 

[MoonRocket]

6 - Ability to recognise that markets are not fair or equal, and understand why.
7 - Accept that trading is a business, the successful participants will do anything to stay in business and take your money.

No 6 is very good
No 7 is also right, however I would rephrase it to.....

Accept that trading is a business, the successful participants will do everything to preserve their money.
The way it is, sounds like they are all out to get you, which might make a person
unnecessarily fearful or aggressive.
It does feel like that at times but as we know the market is not personal.

 

[barjon]

Perhaps it depends on how you trade. If my experience is anything to go by day trading is the most difficult of all. That newbies dive into it is rather like someone passing their driving test and leaping straight into an F1 racing car - sure, they might survive for a lap or two and even put in the odd fast spurt down the straights, but the crash barriers probably win the day.

I got involved in day trading when I retired ten or so years ago and I'm still not confident enough to do it on my main account. I might not write-off cars anymore , but they're still in and out of the repair shop too often for my liking

jon

 

[Liquid validity]

No 6 is very good
No 7 is also right, however I would rephrase it to.....

Accept that trading is a business, the successful participants will do everything to preserve their money.
The way it is, sounds like they are all out to get you, which might make a person
unnecessarily fearful or aggressive.
It does feel like that at times but as we know the market is not personal.

No its not personal, but I guarantee you institutional trade does not exist
to simply preserve their capital (of course that is a factor that can't be ignored).
Their goal is to take money from other traders by any means.
Whether thats front running, insider dealing, arbitrage or just plain experience.
Most of the time its just experience, greater size and much lower costs.