Where are the successful spreadbetters?

R

rumbey

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Having been trading on and off for 7 years I have only lost accounts. I've tried so many systems but spread betting to me seems to be about how long you can keep your account intact before you lose it all.

I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has been trading successfully for 3+ years and any advice

Cheers
D
 
I've done better investing in a portfolio, long term. However, some progress has been made in spreadbetting.

Firstly, do you feel that you are getting screwed or do you accept that losses are your fault?

If it is the latter, I don't think that you would do better with DA. I, on hindsight, know when I make a mistake. For instance, this morning has been difficult for me. I have made four trades, very close stops, lost on three trades and am a few points ahead on the fourth. All my fault. Tomorrow's another day.

Split
 
No its not that I've been screwed. I've never had a bad trading issue with any broker.
From my experience I win I loss I try different systems BUT eventually lose.

95% of spread betters lose, so nothing new here... But my question is where are the successful traders if any?

7 years is a long time to constantly loose and I just think Human emotion is something that cannot be avoided which I blame for my losses. If we didn't have emotions we would be DEAD!

D
 
I'm here, 4+years indices trading and 10 years prior stocks trading.

It sounds like from both your posts you have a problem with accepting its your fault, even if you doubt this then question why you state that 95% of spreadbettors lose, is it any different with DA, you also ask for specificly spreadbettors, again, is it any different going DA.

As for advice:

Go over your paper work and check the trades that you made. It's very possible you gave up on a good strat when it went through a bad period only to pick up another one and trade that equally bad with bad timing.

Remember, we all see the same prices and at the same time, this is true for all traders all around the world, so ask yourself, why does one person win consistantly and another lose.

This can also be attributed to the popular game of poker, more people lose than win, this happens year in year out and every single day, yet, the same people consistantly get near or at the top of the tourny boards. Surely the game is not rigged, they all get random cards yet it is not the cards you get....its how you play them.

Good luck
 
Lee,

Not at all. I accept all loses myself. I do not blame the market or anyone else.

I have taken a £1000 account to over £8000 in the space of 5 months, however as soon as I get a bad run of loses,(which again I accept and know its part of the game), then I try to get the account back up quickly by increasing the risk.

I know Patience, discipline etc are required BUT I just seem to let these essential rules go out of the window.

Maybe my character just isn't right for spreadbetting?

How do you cope with a poor run of loses?

D
 
rumbey said:
How do you cope with a poor run of loses?

D
Click to expand...

I know this was addressed to Lee, but for what it's worth...

I know that I have a historical Win Ratio (WR), I also know - with a bit of O-level maths - when my run of poor losses deviates statistically significantly from this WR.

Until this threshold is exceeded it is just 'noise' and should return to the mean over a sufficient number of trades. It is boring, but interesting, to do the maths. e.g. With a WR of 50% you can expect to get some stroke-inducing drawdowns, when you know these are a normal part of the system performance then it does wonders for the state of mind.

Ben
 
RedgreenBen has said what I would have said.

As for patience and discipline ect, if you dont posses these then you're right, trading is not for you.
 
rumbey said:
Lee,

, then I try to get the account back up quickly by increasing the risk.
D
Click to expand...

There's the answer. Unless you can sort your trading psychology out you'll always lose in the long run. I had a few losses last week. Stopped trading. Read some trading books (again, that I hadn't read for a while) Analysed my losses and worked out whether my system needed tuning - came up with a couple things, started again this week, all is good again.

Seriously, the time off really works for me - work out what would work for you - why would you want to do otherwise? You have a big advantage in that you have a load of losing trades to learn from ;-)

cheers
 
This is what I love about trading. It really lets you know who you really are. It brings out the hidden personality.

I should make clients trade.
 
Some very interesting replies. Thanks.

As for all you winners, are you trading for a living after 3+ years?

D
 
rumbey said:
Lee,

I have taken a £1000 account to over £8000 in the space of 5 months, however as soon as I get a bad run of loses,(which again I accept and know its part of the game), then I try to get the account back up quickly by increasing the risk.

D
Click to expand...

It's very simple. You are wildly overtrading a £1,000 a/c.

If you haven't already done so, calculate your risk of ruin.

You should not risk more than 2% on any one trade.

To do this, either, put in at least 50 times the typical risk per trade into the a/c to get your risk per trade below 2%, or you risk no more than 2% of the £1000 a/c.
 
rumbey said:
Some very interesting replies. Thanks.

As for all you winners, are you trading for a living after 3+ years?

D
Click to expand...

I'm not in a position to call myself a 'winner' but the facts are ...

Milestone 1 - Stop losing money, took just under a year.
Milestone 2- Make a McWage, 6 months into this and about to tick the box.
Milestone 3 - Make a living wage, probably another 6-12months.

So after 2-3 years I still won't be making as much as I did in my old job, but I should be confident of being able to scale-up to a very good income whilst retaining the flexibility that initially attracted me to trading.

I have never risked more than 2% per trade. I also collect data on every aspect of my trading and analyse it until my eyeballs bleed. I'm not trying to sound smug, I am just trying to hint at the steepness of the curve.

Ben
 
Interesting post. Could you please share on how/what do you analyse your trades?

(y)



RedGreenBen said:
I'm not in a position to call myself a 'winner' but the facts are ...

Milestone 1 - Stop losing money, took just under a year.
Milestone 2- Make a McWage, 6 months into this and about to tick the box.
Milestone 3 - Make a living wage, probably another 6-12months.

So after 2-3 years I still won't be making as much as I did in my old job, but I should be confident of being able to scale-up to a very good income whilst retaining the flexibility that initially attracted me to trading.

I have never risked more than 2% per trade. I also collect data on every aspect of my trading and analyse it until my eyeballs bleed. I'm not trying to sound smug, I am just trying to hint at the steepness of the curve.

Ben
Click to expand...
 
RedGreenBen said:
I'm not in a position to call myself a 'winner' but the facts are ...

Milestone 1 - Stop losing money, took just under a year.

Ben
Click to expand...

The fundamental reason for losing money, apart from MM, is in not getting the trade direction right.

This sounds easy, but I see time after time, in these threads, posts by those who expect bounces and reverses. This market has been downward pointing since May. How many long trades have been made, against the main trend, during this time?

Split
 
Splitlink said:
The fundamental reason for losing money, apart from MM, is in not getting the trade direction right.

This sounds easy, but I see time after time, in these threads, posts by those who expect bounces and reverses. This market has been downward pointing since May. How many long trades have been made, against the main trend, during this time?

Split
Click to expand...

Yes, I would agree with this. I think there's a tendency for new traders to try and spot the top/bottom. I've certainly done this. Some of them undoubtedly think that this could put them in the contrarian profitable minority. Not necessarily true, since for every experienced trader following the trend at a higher volume there may be ten less experienced traders taking the other side.

Even when the majority of people are following the trend, the minority are timing their entry/exit well.

cheers
Xeno
 
chilltrader said:
Interesting post. Could you please share on how/what do you analyse your trades?

(y)
Click to expand...

I could write a whole book in response to this question (and others here could write a much better book) but my first rule is ... RECORD EVERYTHING (trade details, state of mind, annotated charts, reason for moving stop/limit...). You don't even know the patterns you are looking for at the outset so you need to give yourself every chance.

I'll just finish with one further comment because it is most recent in my mind. You have to learn to trust the analysis more than you trust your own preconceptions. Our brains really aren't very good at giving us an unbiased view. I hate trading USD/JPY, I can remember all number of horrific trades with this pair, BUT when I objectively crunch the numbers then this is one of my best performing markets.

Probably not the answer that you were looking for but that would require a whole new thread and if I spend any longer at this PC on a Sunday afternoon then it could jeopardise my relationship!

Ben
 
A cold bath every morning before breakfast - until your self discipline is in tip top condition.
( hopefully you won't of passed away meantime )
 
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