Capital Spreads spamming me

On Thursday night I got an email from Capital Spreads with the subject "Sporting Index £100 cash offer for England v India". I don't like getting spam I didn't ask for, so I replied to them and asked them to stop sending me such drivel.

Their reply was "We are Capital Spreads, not Sporting Index and therefore you will need to contact Sporting Index to be removed from their database."

Now, that's a bit cheeky because:

• 1. The message was from [email protected]
  2. The message contained links to www.capitalspreads.com
  3. The message had Capital Spreads' phone numbers
  4. The message had Capital Spreads' disclaimer at the bottom
  5. (Most damning of all) the message was sent to an address that was set up specifically for registering at Capital Spreads, and had only ever been used on the capitalspreads.com web site.

They've been silent since I replied pointing the above out...

While it would be possible to fake the email to make it look as if it came from Capital Spreads, the fact that they were the only ones who had that email address is pretty much a smoking gun.

So, am I the only one who got spammed by them? Is it a regular occurrance (I've only had my account a couple of weeks)? And, since I created the email address solely for dealing with Capital Spreads, are there any nasty repercussions if I just delete the address/bounce messages to it?

Cheers,

Geoff

Hi gataylor

I dont think I've ever been spammed by them but then again i've only got a demo account so probably not worth targeting. Nothing dodgy came up on searching my emails.

The main problem I see it of deleting this particular email account is that you would not be able to receive trade confirmations, rolling trade transactions, statements etc and other such comms to do with your account with them.

I wouldn't worry too much about such mails, read em, keep em, bin em, your choice although as gamma says you could always post a complaint to simon in the capital spreads thread if your really unhappy with it.


*stop press* found one from last year....

.....Just Firewall them and their Domain.....

zambuck said:

.....Just Firewall them and their Domain.....

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Yeah - since it's my mail server I can pretty much do what I want as far as blocking or bouncing emails from them goes.

I just (after nagging them) got this reply:

We sent this email out on behalf of Sporting Index. We have taken you off our marketing list so you will only receive emails from capitalspreads about capitalspreads.

If you would like to be removed from the sporting index marketing list you will have to contact them separately.

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...Which is progress, I suppose. I still think it's fundamentally wrong for them to feel they can spam folks who have accounts with them, especially since there's no way to decline while registering or later in their account management pages. But at least I won't be getting any more of their spam. Hopefully.

(Incidentally, if they're added me to Sporting Index's marketing list, surely they should be the ones that remove me?)

Many thanks to all who replied.

Geoff

As for as I can remember they are surposed to have an "unsubscribe" at the bottom of their emails. Any company sending spam etc. is surposed to do so or depending on where they based, you could find an organisation that will punish them for that.

Spam Glorious Spam

Hi inggscap

I have checked my mails from them and they do not have an unsubscribe links anywhere, the sporting index mail has a link to London Capital Group, the greg secker seminar mail has only a sign up link, nothing else. the latest one I have from them (Tue, 31 Jul 2007) has no link.

If we compare this with lets say a T2W email advertisement, yes at the bottom of these reads

"We send out a maximum of 6 partner emails a month that we think may be of interest to our members. If you would prefer not to receive these partner emails then simply click this_link to automatically unsubscribe. Please note your Trade2Win username is: Lightning McQueen."

which is good as you can control them easily if you wish not to receive them, as I posted earlier I dont mind receiving these kind of mails so had not noticed the lack of a link to stop them.

finspreads dont send such mails, ok perhaps one trying to flog a book for a fiver, they also have unsubscribe links.

Hi McQueen (nice car lol)

Yeah, Capital Spreads/Sporting Index is UK registered isn't it? If so the UK government have strict laws that companies must follow regarding data and among that is the need for an unsubscribe near the bottom of the email as you discovered in the T2W emails etc. Not only that but it's also just good practice.

If you still get emails from them after requesting to be removed, you could google around and find the organisation that enforces data acts on UK companies and take it from there. That should get them to jump into gear and remove your address haha
If I remember correctly the fine is quite hefty.

Oh FFS

Oh FFS! Now I've started getting paper junk mail from Sporting Index.

I've only placed one bet with Capital Spreads and already I regret registering with them.

Geoff

gataylor said:

Oh FFS! Now I've started getting paper junk mail from Sporting Index.

I've only placed one bet with Capital Spreads and already I regret registering with them.

Geoff

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How terribly embarrassing and inconvenient for you. I would call up and raise hell if I were you. I really don't like companies doing this. What will be next - free holiday offers, scratchcards, and an annual subscription to The Sun? If Capital Spreads really have used your information in this way......

What do their T&Cs say about sharing your data with third parties? Was there an opt out? Did they make you aware at any time they would (ab)use your data in this way? If they did, then fair play if you agreed - otherwise, I would be pretty upset with them if I were you.

You state in your earlier post that the email came from "[email protected]". I am not sure if you are aware of this, but mail from: headers can be spoofed rather easily - perhaps they are telling the truth about not sending you this correspondence. Check the full message headers (see the manual of your email software), and look for the originating IP address. A Whois lookup can tell you who it belongs to. If you don't know how to do this, perhaps post the full message headers (with your personal email address edited out) here and someone else could do that for you.

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

lurkerlurker said:

What do their T&Cs say about sharing your data with third parties? Was there an opt out? Did they make you aware at any time they would (ab)use your data in this way? If they did, then fair play if you agreed - otherwise, I would be pretty upset with them if I were you.

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The closest I can find to a statement like that is in their privacy policy:

I couldn't find anything relevant in their terms and conditions, and I still haven't found an opt-out (other than ranting at them, which seemed to work).

lurkerlurker said:

You state in your earlier post that the email came from "[email protected]". I am not sure if you are aware of this, but mail from: headers can be spoofed rather easily - perhaps they are telling the truth about not sending you this correspondence. Check the full message headers (see the manual of your email software), and look for the originating IP address. A Whois lookup can tell you who it belongs to. If you don't know how to do this, perhaps post the full message headers (with your personal email address edited out) here and someone else could do that for you.

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Yeah, I checked the headers and they're pretty damning for Capital Spreads. But to be extra sure I checked the logs on my mail server at the time, and they show the actual connection for the spam being initiated by 'mail.londoncapitalgroup.co.uk[83.244.146.164]' - that's the same mail server emails from [email protected] comes from. I can provide the headers and the appropriate section of the mail log if anyone's interested.

Thanks,

Geoff

spamming

Capital Spreads never gives client information out to third parties

At Capital Spreads we will very occasionally send our clients carefully selected promotions from partner companies where we feel that our clients may appreciate and benefit from these partner promotions. Only very rarely would we send more than one such promotion in any three month period - a rate that could hardly be described as spamming. In a recent client survey undertaken by Capital Spreads only 1% of respondents suggested that our email correspondence with clients was in any way "unclear" and we therefore feel confident that we are communicating effectively with our clients and that we are adding value. We do not share client data with third parties (on the rare occasion that we do distribute a third party partner promotion we approve the promotion and then send it out ourselves) so third parties do not share any Capital Spreads client data. Finally, we should always offer an "unsubscribe" facility meaning that users can opt out of receiving some or all promotional emails, unfortunately it appears that some of the recent promos were delivered in template form to us and the opt out was not included, this ommission will not happen again and I apologise for this oversight, it was most certainly not made on purpose.
In reality (unlike most unsolicited emails), at least clients have a contact point and can simply email us on [email protected] and request that they do not receive any third party emails.

Of course 'opt out' e-mails functionalities are in themselves very dangerous as many spamming companies use a returned 'opt out' request as confirmation that the e-mail address actually exists and is in active use. At which point they can add your e-mail address to their lists and sell on the data to third parties !!

gataylor

i am sorry but, if you are receiving direct e-mails from Sporting Index, then you must have clicked through the connecting url and given them your data. We have never, and will never, give client data to a third party. and have certainly not given our client details to a competitor of all people (albeit on the sporting side).

It appears that this complaint seems to be a problem confined to yourself if the lack of corroberating posts is anything to go by.

simon

capitalspreads said:

Only very rarely would we send more than one such promotion in any three month period - a rate that could hardly be described as spamming.

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Spam is Unsolicited Commercial Email. Frequency doesn't really enter into it - you may be an infrequent spammer (that may help you sleep at night), but you're still a spammer.

capitalspreads said:

In reality (unlike most unsolicited emails), at least clients have a contact point and can simply email us on [email protected] and request that they do not receive any third party emails.

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The first time I sent an email to [email protected] asking them to stop sending me that drivel, they denied it was from Capital Spreads. It's hard not to imagine that that's the initial response everyone gets - it's only because I persisted (I could prove no-one else had been given that email address, and I could show the server logs showing the spam originated from London Capital Group) that someone actually admitted it was from them.

That's why I feel it's a bit disingenuous to say "at least clients have a contact point and can simply email us".

capitalspreads said:

Finally, we should always offer an "unsubscribe" facility

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It would be even better if they could ask not to be spammed in the first place. After all, there's nothing in your privacy policy about automatically being subjected to spam just because you registered on Capital Spreads. Surprising them with their first spam just makes some people (me particularly) annoyed.

capitalspreads said:

It appears that this complaint seems to be a problem confined to yourself if the lack of corroberating posts is anything to go by.

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I imagine many trusting souls believed [email protected] when they got the first email denying responsibility. Very few people operate their own mail server to be able to prove the spam came from Capital Spreads. And if you've read the thread you'll know it's not just me that was spammed.

capitalspreads said:

i am sorry but, if you are receiving direct e-mails from Sporting Index, then you must have clicked through the connecting url and given them your data.

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That is absolutely, categorically untrue. (And it's not direct emails, it's real, physical paper junk - hence my concern over Capital Spreads giving address details to third parties.) I've never been to the Sporting Index site, never spoken to them on the phone, never sent them a letter. The only two times my life intersected with them was:

1. When I got your spam about them, and
2. When I got junk mail about them a few weeks later.

You say Capital Spreads was not responsible, but I find that very hard to believe. I know you've made a big effort in other threads to be open about Capital Spreads and how it operates. However, denying you're spamming people, making a mockery of your privacy policy, and pretending [email protected] deals with the issue properly all go to make it seem you're trying to gloss over the problem. It's hard to trust someone who it seems is really just trying to spin the issue.

Geoff

gataylor

all i can say is to state once more

WE DID NOT GIVE YOUR DATA TO SPORTING INDEX.... i have now said this four times in two e-mails..... you say i am generally frank in my exchanges..is that frank enough

I also repeat ...if you have been contacted directly by sporting index (and not by the partner e-mail sent by us) it is because you contacted them in some fashion. If you say you did not then I would suggest that you look into the security levels on your computer for evidence of third party hacking.

Our terms specifically say that we may contact our clients with partner deals..i get emails from insurance/banking/blah blah blah all the time.... but we do not and never will give client data to a third party. It is almost comical to suggest that a commercial organisation would voluntarily give hard earned (and generally expensively acquired) client data lists away to a potential competitor.

as i repeat .... please explain the total lack of any other person claiming the same problem with sporting index...we have not had a single complaint from all of our 80,000 plus demo/live names concerning this matter.

to accuse a perfectly open response as an attempt to spin or gloss is slightly unreasonable

we have apologised several times even though we are not actually sure what we are apologising for (except for the lack of opt out box on the partner e-mail).

simon

capitalspreads said:

all i can say is to state once more

WE DID NOT GIVE YOUR DATA TO SPORTING INDEX.... i have now said this four times in two e-mails..... you say i am generally frank in my exchanges..is that frank enough

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Thanks for that. Spam really annoys me, so I want to stomp it out wherever I see it. Sorry if I over-reacted. I do feel it's much more important than you seem to be treating it though. (And I never had a problem with your frankness, I just found what you said hard to believe.)

capitalspreads said:

I also repeat ...if you have been contacted directly by sporting index (and not by the partner e-mail sent by us) it is because you contacted them in some fashion. If you say you did not then I would suggest that you look into the security levels on your computer for evidence of third party hacking.

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I have faith in my own security, but I have much less faith in Capital Spreads. The two times I've had to deal with [email protected], I've had to send back their first response with pretty much 'Thanks for your response, now can you try actually reading the email I sent'. It doesn't inspire confidence, and so getting spammed by you (and then having it denied) makes you look like the incompetent ones.

capitalspreads said:

Our terms specifically say that we may contact our clients with partner deals..

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Your privacy policy disagrees - it says only:


The terms you mention don't seem to be publicly available. (At least I can't find them - I can only find these ones, which don't mention spamming or 'partner deals' at all. Are you sure the public Terms and Conditions are the same as the ones you're using? Or can you point out the clause you're talking about?) I hope you can see why this doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about Capital Spreads competence in this regard.

capitalspreads said:

to accuse a perfectly open response as an attempt to spin or gloss is slightly unreasonable

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Well, I think we disagree on what an open response looks like. To me, an open response would have said:

• * yes, we spammed you. (Not, 'yes we sent you unsolicited commercial email, but we're not really calling it spam.')
• * yes, it should have an unsubscribe option. (Yes, I know you said this.)
• * yes, it should be possible for you to never receive a spam from us. (Not, 'yes, but you can contact [email protected] to opt out', because, frankly, they're just not as good as you seem to think they are.)
• * yes, we initially denied it was from us, but that was because...

Alternately:

• * yes, we spammed you.
• * yes, we'll continue to spam everyone on our client list who hasn't explicitly asked to opt out, so that we can monetize our client list.

Those would be open responses. Trying to pretend it wasn't spam just seems like spin. You may disagree, but that's how it came across. As I said, I've read a lot of your other posts, and you did seem to come across as trying to help. But denying the spam problem has meant I've lost a lot of respect for what you say. It has really hurt your credibility in my eyes. I think you need to accept that some people take their privacy more seriously than you seem to. (Even if we are just 1%.)

capitalspreads said:

we have apologised several times even though we are not actually sure what we are apologising for (except for the lack of opt out box on the partner e-mail).

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Spamming me in the first place?

I don't like spam, so when I register with companies now I use a one-off email address specifically for that company. That way, if they spam me, I know exactly who is responsible for it, and I can kill that email address even if they do pass it on to third parties.

So how about apologising for being the sort of spamming company that makes me go to such lengths? For being the sort of company I'm glad I didn't give my regular email address to? Because, by sending out spam to people who don't want it, you really are a part of the problem.

Geoff